I like to think Agent Reyes from the X-Files is lesbian/bi, but I don't know for sure. She has called Scully beautiful, and isn't afraid to be herself. I think she and Scully would make a great couple, so I'm a bit biast towards her being gay.

I think homosexuals get a fair write up in most shows on TV today (with the exception of South Park), and if the character falls flat due to stereotype, I feel the writers intentions were good.

By the way, I wouldn't call Edmonton a backwater town. I don't know it as well as you probably do, but my impression of it is that it is pretty tolerant for a city of its size - and it's definitely more tolerant, than, say Calgary, just to your south.

------------------
My God can beat up your God.
-Weights and Measures

I've watched the Ellen Show (the new one, not the one that got kicked off tv a few yeasrs ago) a bit, and I liked the way they're handling Ellen's queerness. It's there, but I think the show does a good job of not harping on it every ten seconds.

I don't watch much tv, so I'm stumped at this point...

Kyth

------------------
Kythryne
Scarleteen Advocate

As for gay role models besides Will and Grace, Dark Angel, and Queer as folk, there are quite a few. Often in movies or TV shows you'll come a cross a gay character. The gay character will just be like any other character which is good because their homosexuality shouldn't be harped on. For instance, Bad Girls, Legally Blond, Head Over Heels...The truth is they're all over.

The best gay role models, in my opinion, are the 'real' ones. People like Melissa Ethridge, Kd Lange, Ellen, Tammy Lynn Michaels...The list goes on.

He's "gay" without all those damn stereotypes.

if you want some "real life" role models...here are a few:

Melissa Etheridge, k. d. lang, Greg Louganis, Oscar Wilde, Audre Lorde, James Baldwin, Martina Navratilova, Pete Townshend, Michelangelo, Truman Capote, John Maynard Keynes, Barney Frank, Leonardo daVinci, Rita Mae Brown, Elton John, Ellen DeGeneres, Adrienne Rich, Tchaikovsky, RuPaul, Gore Vidal, Sandra Bernhard, George Gershwin, Tennessee Williams, Virginia Woolf, Frieda Kahlo, David Geffen.....

hope that gets you started ok!

Its on tonighT, but dammit I have to work!!!
Friends is on too, and I am going to miss it, it was supposted to be a good one.
::cries::
BOOHOOINS!! WHY DO I ALWAYS HAVE TO WORK THURSDAYS!!!!!

------------------
*~*~12/3/99*~*
Bobaroony & Erica Bearica
<3 love forever!

*~*Scarleteen Advocate*~*

Blessed Be,
Ginger

Honestly, I can't think of any one show/movie that has real gay/bi characters. It's almost as though most TV shows (with a few exceptions) feel that they have to have a token gay/bi character, and opt out by making them stereotypes.

I think that you really need to create your own ideals and rolemodels that you want to live up to, not feel like you have to meet some type of mold that's preestablished.

Those are my 2 cents, anyway.

------------------
Tim

"Read the Bible again sometime. Women are painted as bigger antagonists than the Egyptians and Romans combined. It stinks." --"Serendipity," Dogma

------------------
I don't want eternity. But Arashii is mine.

------------------
I don't want eternity. But Arashii is mine.

and i looooooove Haruka. i think I'm beginning to have a sort of fangirl obsession with her. whenever i see her in the manga or anime I kinda sigh and go "'aruka-saaaaan~" lol. it's fun -.^

For other lesbians in anime, there's Michiru of course (although there's speculation she's actually bi), and Utena from Revolutionary Girl Utena. actually, i don't know if Utena's a lesbian or not, but the marriage with Anthy is a good indicator. plus she's butch, kinda. and she looks DAMN good in a boy's uniform, heh.

>>For other lesbians in anime, there's Michiru of course (although there's speculation she's actually bi)

If you're refering to the SailorStars episode where she flirts with Seiya, she was doing so in order to get information from him. I've heard people say that they always figured Michiru was straight and then just fell in love with Haruka. That sounds rather... strange to me. She's so insecure that I think she grew up in a house where she was pressured to suceed, and then liking girls was just more pressure, since she had to keep it quiet. My theory, anyway.

>>and Utena from Revolutionary Girl Utena. actually, i don't know if Utena's a lesbian or not

Anime and manga Utena are basically straight(prince-obsessed, Touga, etc.), though I think she really does like Anthy, but not girls in general. I'm sure that makes no sense to people who've never seen the show. Movie Utena, on the other hand, is a lesbian, no two ways about it. Heck, she and Anthy weren't wearing too much in that one scene when... agh, PG-13 guidelines.

>>but the marriage with Anthy is a good indicator.

She's engaged to Anthy since she's the victor of the Rose Duels. Not married to her. And she hasn't got any choice about it. If she loses the duels then Anthy will go back to Sanjoii or someone else who'll abuse her constantly.

>>plus she's butch, kinda. and she looks DAMN good in a boy's uniform

She certainly does. "I'm a perfectly ordinary girl who just wants to be a perfectly ordinary boy."---Tenjou Utena

------------------
I don't want eternity. But Arashii is mine.

Queer As Folk is all about gay. Without gay, the show doesn't exist. It does harp on the subject. As someone else once pointed out, the characters in that show are totally isolated in their own gay world, and whenever they go out into the straight world, it's horrible, terrible, God get me out of there!

Justin was bashed, Vic was arrested by a straight cop, Michael's experience with his co-workers friends was a very overdone parody of het life, Ted was fired for looking at gay porn, while workers who look at straight porn get away with it...need I go on? In fact, it seems like the only straight characters that are given positive roles on the show are the ones who make gay activism an important part of their lives (Mike's mom, and Daphne).

------------------
I want to break my legs just so I won't forget to be nice to you.
-Moneen

Agreed. It's part of how it stays on the air. Quite frankly, people are fascinated by gay subculture. And so they watch shows like Will and Grace and Queer as Folk. No constant talk about gays? No show. Sorry.

About a year ago, Newsweek ran an article about TV shows and how they rated them on the dumb and risque scale, from 1-10. Every "gay" show, even if it was pretty much your average show with gay main characters, was rated more risque than if it had straight main characters. On average, the "gay" shows were also rated more highly on the dumb scale. Interesting.

------------------
I don't want eternity. But Arashii is mine.

Will, however, is a normal guy who happens to be gay. He has his stereotypical moments, too, but far less so than Jack.

I have to disagree with you, Sunset. While, deep down, I don't really think Will & Grace will have a significant effect on viewers attitudes towards gay people, I think the media in general does, and most people DO think that gay people are hilarious. Just listen to people who think they are "oh so modern for accepting gay people". "Yeah, my hair dresser is SO gay! I've even seen him do that thing with his hand! Really, its so funny!"

Thats more what I meant. None of the characters in Will and Grace are realistic in my opinion (I mean, look at Karen) and I don't think that the show will have a deep impact on many peoples attitudes.

quote:

---

By the way, I wouldn't call Edmonton a backwater town. I don't know it as well as you probably do, but my impression of it is that it is pretty tolerant for a city of its size - and it's definitely more tolerant, than, say Calgary, just to your south.

---

Check out this article. I think it might interest you. It's all about how the lesbian storyline almost always ends with a baby.
http://www.afterellen.com/TV/lesbianbabyboom.html

The sites great.