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Author Topic:   Bodyhair
notooniceguy
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Posts: 33
From:Canada (Vancouver)
Registered: Jul 2002

posted 07-20-2002 07:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for notooniceguy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I used to live in Europe and until I came to canada, arm piut hair did not bother me. I find no pubic hair very sexy because i am very visual and I like to see the female part. I like the smoothness too. IN terms of my hair, I am quite a bit annoyed by my bum hair. Although it's not excessive, I would like to get rid of it. Any suggestions? Has anyone ever tried those epilator that look like electric men shavers, that pull the hair very quickly. They say that it last for 3 weeks. True?

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Mary
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From:Ohio, U.S.A.
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posted 07-21-2002 12:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mary     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Babytasa, if you're really interested in your boyfriend trimming his pubic hair, talk to him about it! Maybe make a little joke about how much there is and how it gets in the way (to begin the conversation) and then discuss the idea with him of removing some. Don't push him into doing it if he doesn't want to; all you can do is tell him how you feel and listen to what he has to say. Don't be offended if he tells you his "pubic hair is fine how it is, thank you"; a lot of people are proud of their body hair. But you never know, he may think the idea is wonderful .

As for my previous post about body hair (how I said I was going to stop shaving), I picked up the razor again after about a week of going bohemian. My mom was always on my back about how "disgusting it was", and most of my friends were the same way. I decided to shave instead of having to deal with all of the crap they were giving me. This just wasn't a battle I chose to fight with them. And I must admit, it's nice to have smooth legs again . Maybe I'll try the aux-natural look again in the winter.

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Shenzie2007
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From:dallas, texas, usa
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posted 07-21-2002 01:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Shenzie2007     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I haven't shaved my legs for a while now. I like hairy legs. And hairy anywhere, as long as the person doesn't let it go all smelly. Recently, I sheved my pubic hair (glad I'm not alone in this respect!) and it HURT. I'm not doing that again for a while. If I wanna go swimming, I'll wear trunks and a bikini top, just so I don't get self-conscious about having pubic hair showing.

The idea of a bearded lady kinda turns me on. Also, this music artist called Aphex Twin has a picture of zirself on zir website. In my opinion, zie's quite attractive.
I'm gonna test that theory. If it's true that repeated shaving encourages beard growth, I'd be happy to be the only girl in school with a mustache. (Talk about genderbending. )

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Grizabella
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posted 07-21-2002 07:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Grizabella     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by notooniceguy:
Has anyone ever tried those epilator that look like electric men shavers, that pull the hair very quickly. They say that it last for 3 weeks. True?

My mother has one of those. Just looking at it makes me cringe. It's shaped like an oversized shaver, with this little coil thingy instead of a blade. (Looks kind of like a tight, narrow spring lying on its side.) I can't imagine that feeling very good, but I've never tried it so I wouldn't know.

I shave. Personally, I don't care what my legs look like, but I'm not prepared for the reactions I might get if I don't shave, so I do. My underarms are different; I like them shaved. I don't really like the way underarm hair looks on either men or woman, but I can totally see why someone would want to go without shaving it. (razorburn under the arms is NOT fun,) I would certainly never reject a partner based on whether or not they shaved their body hair.

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bubblebaby320
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posted 07-21-2002 11:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bubblebaby320     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i like to shave. i shave my legs n my armpits like everyday in the summer but during the winter not as often. i just recently started to shave my pubic area **Edited for content** i think it feels great being nice n smooth so if u like smoothness def try shaving down there. anyone agree wit me abbout shaving down there?

[This message has been edited by Milke (edited 07-22-2002).]

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OoMEoO
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From:California
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 07-22-2002 09:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for OoMEoO     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree with you about shaving down there, bubblebaby! It feels really nice and smmooooth and I love it! But its definitely NOT cool when you get ingrown hairs! You should try using a depillatory cream (like Nair) to remove the hair there...i like it better than shaving

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Milke
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From:I *came* from the land of ice and snow
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posted 07-22-2002 09:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Milke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Please avoid using chemical depilatories like Neet and Nair on the genitals. They were never designed to be used on such sensitive tissues, and you could be risking harming yourself by using themselves there.

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Smiley87
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From:England
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posted 07-23-2002 02:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Smiley87     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I shave my legs and underarms because i like that feeling-i have a thing about my bodyhair and i just don't feel comfortable with it i guess. I wear shorts all the time in the summer, and i prefer to have shaved legs with them-it's personal preference-but i have no problems with people that don't shave and when i shave my legs i normally stop at my knee-mainly because hair on my thighs doesn't bother me-my boyfriend takes the mick sometimes if my legs are hairy-but he's joking and it wouldn't sway his view of me in anyway and it doesn't bother me what people think!

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army_angel13
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From:St. Paul, MN
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posted 07-25-2002 01:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for army_angel13     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I do shave my legs and my armpits, but it's annoying! Although I don't care what anyone thinks about me, and even though I'm tough, I still wanna show my feminem side.

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*proud feminist*

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Milke
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From:I *came* from the land of ice and snow
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posted 07-25-2002 05:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Milke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's normal for women to have body hair, and thus, hair must be feminine. Feminism refers to a lot more than a certain image.

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Etoile
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posted 07-25-2002 06:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Etoile     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I work as a lifeguard year round so I always take care of my leg and bikini area hair. I see too many women with hair poking from places I wont even mention to not.
I just find it, well, dirty.
Its funny though because I have this weird fondness for hair on guys...not all over like apeman or anything, but hair on the chest and legs is sexy to me.


Goodness!

I have such strange double standards.
Guys always get it easy!

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No one's a virgin....Life screws everyone

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Gumdrop Girl
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From:Los Angeles, CA ... somewhere off the 10
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posted 07-25-2002 11:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gumdrop Girl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Etoile, while you may find errant hair a little off-putting, it's a little bit harsh to call it "dirty." After all, the hair is perfectly natural and its presence does not have a negative impact on a person's hygiene.

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"In God we trust. All others must pay cash..." faw-choon kookie say.

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Goodbye_blue_sky96
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From:......up......there.....
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posted 09-01-2002 08:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Goodbye_blue_sky96     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, this is coming from a guy, since they're welcome TOO! (thanks bjadet) lol. anways, I think that pit hair is kinda cool on girls. I mean, I couldn't care one way or the other, even about legs. shaving or not shaving, both are fun to touch and play around with on your gf! people are too weird about this "women should be hairless" hype. REALLY, it isn't that important, now is it?

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Gumdrop Girl
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From:Los Angeles, CA ... somewhere off the 10
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posted 01-18-2005 08:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gumdrop Girl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i think there's a demand for hair politicking, so i'll bump this for reuse.

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00goddess
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From:houston, TX
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posted 01-20-2005 12:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 00goddess     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
One thing I think is good to remember about cultural standards of "grooming" is that they vary as much as do personal standards of grooming. These aren't laws or rules- they are concepts.

I don't shave my pits, and I had an ex years ago who used to bitch about that nonstop. His complaint was "It's just not feminine," to which I would reply: "How can something that grows naturally on a woman not be feminine?"

At that time in my life I was exploring femininity as a lifestyle (it was a life-art project), and one part of that was never wearing pants- I wore only skirts and dresses for several years. So in all honesty, I don't think his issue was really about femininity- it was about a personal preference, which he was not willing to admit.

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christinejones
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Posts: 139
From:los angeles
Registered: Jul 2004

posted 01-20-2005 01:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for christinejones     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
yeah flogging this beast really to the last steps but yeah... i know as the topic was bumped here it's not going to make any sense consecutively but

i really wasn't trying to be semantically tricky or point-scoring or whatever. there is more than one side to anything... obviously there is a huge case in some ways against cultural beauty fascism in china they used to bind women's feet - aesthetically more attractive, yeah i would say so probably; wrapped up with high status, for sure the peasant had to work and walk they couldn't be carried on litters and just teeter a few steps... the right thing to do - no, not in my opinion. completely peculiar hahahha and we complain about high heels eh???

so i am not blind to their being other viewpoints or closed mind or anything i want to hear them - the more you know the less confused you are (hopefully - although it doesn't seem to be working entirely like that for me) as i am completely confused about most things in life and if i put a response out there it is just as much a question as a statement of fact.

i don't know what i think. i know what i like - that's it. i like it when people make an effort but equally it slightly puts me off if it is overdone or not done well... i appreciate well a punk who has positioned his hair exactly and his rings with consideration.

so it wasn't an attempt to press my own pov or the fact that i think it is simplistic question i was more hoping that the opposite viewpoint to mine would be clarified so i could work out more clearly what i do think about some issues....

having said all that - i can't believe we can go to the moon, make a computer the size of an ant but no-one has a permanent hair removal solution!!!! how come? just judging from the general interest you would be an instant billionnaire overnight - no?

[This message has been edited by christinejones (edited 01-20-2005).]

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Miz Scarlet
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From:Minneapolis
Registered: May 2000

posted 01-20-2005 08:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Miz Scarlet     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think the thing is, Christine, in you asking for "the other side," is that you're assuming there are sides, rather than simply many, many variances to both the larger issue of what "grooming" or "making an effort" actually means, as well as what any given set of cultural or personal beauty standards are. You also seem to be assuming when you speak very generally about these issues with statements which I know don't seem vague to you, like "making an effort," or something like "it is overdone or not done well." What's "it?"

Point is, it is that approach and those sorts of assumptions that read as if you think there is one standard or set of standards you assume everyone both knows, which is shared in the knowing by everyone, and is universal. And that's actually completely fallacious.

But if in asking for the "opposite" side, you're asking why might, for a woman, "grooming" NOT include a goal towards hairlessness?

Depends on who you ask.

Personally, as someone who removes hair pretty rarely, usually only if I'm the physical subject of a piece of work where I think it'll not make sense visually, or if I'm going to some sort of social or family function where I know that hair under my arms or on my legs is going to make people grossly uncomfortable, and make it pretty much impossible to discuss anything else with anyone besides the politics of bodyhair. Otherwise, I usually really couldn't be bothered: I have a LOT to pack into a day and way better things to do with my time.

I've also built my life very expressly, and made sacrifices to do so, so that I really DON'T have to conform to other people's physical or aesthetic standards a lot, largely because for many reasons, I simply don't want to be seen or treated as an object; I don't find it healthy when body/mind are separated.

I'm also an adult woman: adult women naturally have hair on their bodies (and ALL humans have peach fuzz all over), just like we natrually have breasts. The same way that as I get older and I have no designs on not letting my wrinkles do what they will, I see no positive reason or compelling agenda to work to make parts of my body look pre-pubescent.

I think too, that it's easy to assume that the sort of standards you've discussed or say you like are universal, when in fact, they're actually exceptionally culktural, and moreover, when we're talking about women and bodyhair, incredibly heterosexual, to boot. (Which isn't to say those are the standards for all heterosexuals, rather that removal of female bodyhair has a lot to do with what many men in a given culture -- where that is an ideal -- want of women, rather than what women would want or opt to do without those influences.) Per gender issues on this, it's worth evaluating, between men and women in middle-American culture, what the standards are, and taking a look at how very, very few of them for men involve really changing or removing natural aspects of themselves, and for women, the GROSS number of ideals which very much DO support massive adaptation, removal of aspects or parts (or even the whole body: the cult of thinness is in large part about removing one's whole mass), so as to barely resemble how one appears naturally. Very few of us will go through our lives without meeting women who are unrecognizable if they dropped all the "grooming" routines they have. Very few of us will meet men, ever, for whom that is the case (and ironically, some women when they do meet those men, who are often drag queens, hardly view them as normal, even though many are doing the EXACT same things to their faces and bodies many women do daily).

I've only ever dated one woman in my life who shaved or depilated anything. For that matter, in a sex life with many partners of all genders that spans twenty years, I can only think of one or two lovers who were unenthusiastic about the fact that I don't care for many typical cultural beauty standards and opt to choose to express myself via my appearance in my own way. I can think of exactly none who had problems with this.

As an extra tidbit: there are, in fact, numerous areas, times in history, groups for whom women LEAVING the hair on their bodies as it is was/is a beauty ideal or something of great value. I did an art piece this year which recounted a belief among the Romany that when women remove the hair under their arms, they are removing a source of their power, for example.

The trouble with an issue like this is that it seems small, but it, in fact, has serious legs. It pulls into it tons of issues of gender identity and gender status, of sexism, of class, of cultural relativism, of sexuality and sexual objectification, of technology, of feminism, of the homogenization of the human body, of industry and capitalism, etc. So, it's awfully difficult to sum up in a handful of posts without going on for an age.

There are some good books out there, though, which touch on these topics. I can look more up later if you like, but off the top of my head, The Beauty Myth by Naomi Wolf is a good start, as is The Body Project by Joan Jacobs Brumberg, Body Outlaws by Ophira Edut, and Rapunzel's Daughters by Rose Weitz.

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christinejones
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From:los angeles
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posted 01-20-2005 09:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for christinejones     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
hey miz scarlet - thanks for that i'll check out some of the books. as for what 'it' is all i know is that I know what 'it' is.... it drives me mad sometimes, like absolutely furious (although i tend not to show it because i'd probably be locked up) for example in art how people can't see when something is good or not (i KNOW its subjective but its not! that doesn't make sense but its true) how anybody cannot see it???
if i were to meet that guy who does the swimming pools (hockney) i would slap his face because that's craft not art --- it's terrible, worse than terrible. it drives me mad that people slip through the net - i can appreciate all sorts of different styles i like both ingres and impressionists but i don't like stuff that is no good. there's a difference and you don't need to study it to see it - it's right there in front of you.
there. right that made no sense at all i'm sure but the thing is it makes perfect sense to me.
there is something innate to people to be able to recognise this - ya know i saw a picture of a statue once and i was struck how beautiful the face was and it turned out to be 'nefertiti' which is Eqyptian for 'the beautiful one' such a long time ago but still you can see it.
anyway i don't mean to bang on because i know i make no sense when i start with this topic. but i don't understand how some people think - how they can choose a picture that i would crumple into a small ball every time i had to face it or burn it for the sake of humanity and they choose it - and what's more some evil philistine painted it! how? oh well - whatever! thanks a lot for the book recommendations though. cool. all the best

(sheesh i know i am a bit mad.... i might as well put it out there hey we're not all completely sane) on another topic i spend way too much time when i can't face doing my chores just mooching about on scarleteen --- what do you reckon is it possible to get addicted/compulsive to a message board????
i guess i would just find an alternative way to procrastinate anyway. work. work. work. some people are so much more focused than others. my mind is all over the shop/all of the time.

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Miz Scarlet
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From:Minneapolis
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posted 01-20-2005 10:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Miz Scarlet     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
(You do realize that it is a total oxymoron to say that good/bad anything, be it art or dinner, isn't subjective when the very defintion of those judgements IS that they are subjective, yes?)

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christinejones
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From:los angeles
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posted 01-20-2005 11:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for christinejones     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
the terrible thing is although i understand that intellectually what i feel emotionally is that it is only subjective to people who have no taste (there - completely deluded snob). anybody with taste should automatically be able to tell what is good from what is rubbish and it's not subjective it's fact!! --- but yeah is an oxymoron i guess........

maybe it is more that some things make sense - those that make sense are good. for example shakespeare; rothko; mozart; orson welles; probably einstein but i don't understand or know anything about science. and it's not so much make sense as they work (bypassing the intellect) they just feel right and they make you feel good too. don't you think???? they are right. (ahahaha and ain't it great when you get orson welles doing shakespeare as in Othello - two favorites for the price of one!) i mean it is not always consistent for me picasso blue period = amazing but his ceramics should be smashed a terribly bad joke. people seem to go through a phase of insight and then it goes again.

everything else in the world makes no sense at all - it is just all a confusing blur but that is why you have art galleries and concerts so that you can go somewhere it all makes sense for five minutes and makes you feel better....

of course there are lots of good things that are nearly good without being brilliant. oh what do i know? nothing!

i am seriously going to sign off now like for good. i think i have become a scarleteen message board junkie and i need to detox or something! might see you all in six months - or not at all if you are in luck. keep smiling cj

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logic_grrl
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From:UK
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posted 01-20-2005 11:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for logic_grrl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
if i were to meet that guy who does the swimming pools (hockney) i would slap his face because that's craft not art ---

And yet, many people think Hockney's paintings and drawings are art, and very good art too.

Certainly not deserving of being physically assaulted ....

quote:
there's a difference and you don't need to study it to see it - it's right there in front of you.
there.

And yet, people "see" very different things. One person looks at an artwork and sees it as beautiful, and another sees it and wants to hit the artist, as you've just demonstrated.

And both of them will think they're innately right and just reporting what they see.

You may feel like ridiculing their judgment and threatening to "crumple into a small ball" the art they love - they may feel exactly the same way about the art you love.

And they may feel equally "furious" that you've "slipped through the net", don't have "taste" and can't "see" what is "right in front of you".

My grandparents collected art for years; they bought one set of paintings which they loved, but which some of their friends regarded as so hideous and disturbing that they refused to come round to dinner at my grandparents' house while the paintings were there.

See my point? This is subjective, and there's no way round that.

Emotionally, you may feel certain that to you, one painting or one way of dealing with body hair just looks better and makes more sense. And that's fine. That how you know what you like, what your taste is.

But intellectually, it's important to accept that people can and do differ in their tastes (not to mention their cultural standards) without one group automatically being wrong, tasteless, or stupid.

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Miz Scarlet
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posted 01-20-2005 11:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Miz Scarlet     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
...and on that note, it's worth recognizing that that sort of approach -- that anyone who has different standards than yours has no taste, intelligence or aesthetics, what have you -- ultimately leaves the person approaching things that way looking like the fool, not the other way round.

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christinejones
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From:los angeles
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posted 01-20-2005 06:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for christinejones     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
aha - i always wondered what that 'f' in christine f jones stood for. now i know! all the best to all cj (cfj)

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breakingarm
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From: canada
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posted 01-20-2005 10:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for breakingarm     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I like my body hair

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00goddess
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From:houston, TX
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posted 01-21-2005 04:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 00goddess     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by christinejones:
obviously there is a huge case in some ways against cultural beauty fascism in china they used to bind women's feet - aesthetically more attractive, yeah i would say so probably;

So, you, personally, think that rotting, gangrenous feet with necrotic toes are more aesthetically attractive than unbound, healthy feet?

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