T O P I C R E V I E W
Onionpie
Member # 41699
posted 06-21-2009 03:49 PM
Hey y'all, once again. I guess I'm just full of worries lately. However, this is actually about a conversation my boyfriend and I had a while ago, that has bothered me ever since. So basically, he told me that he has had the urge/considered many, many times, to have sex with someone who's good looking, just for that. ie. sex without love. He says the "majority" of men feel this way and have had those urges, and "most guys would, in an instant, have sex with a good-looking girl if she offered." This bothers me -- not because I think it's wrong and that nobody should want that. First, the generalization bothers me. But more importantly is this: I know that love and sex do not necessarily go together. And I do not look down on anyone who has sex without love, nor do I think they are "wrong". However, I think that even though they are not one and the same, you can choose to have 'em pretty much that way; as in, you can choose to only have sex with people who mean a lot to you. And that's how I feel. However, I want to have a partner who shares my beliefs. I'm okay with people not considering sex to be all that important or special, but I myself want someone who shares my general belief that it is something to share with someone you love. Because of what he said, I feel a little disappointed, and less "special"; like he didn't decide to have sex with me because I'm important to him, not because it's something he wants to share only with someone he loves and trusts, not because he feels that I am that person he wants to share a part of himself with -- but because I was the first one to offer. Like it was just a coincidence we happened to be in a relationship (though I know he was in love with me when we first had sex, I just feel now like that wasn't really his reason for having sex), because he'd have had sex with any pretty girl who offered. Now I'm not saying this is true, I'm just saying that's how it made me feel. And it's not like I'd feel less special no matter why he had sex with someone else first, if that makes sense. I mean I wouldn't be hurt if he'd had sex before he met me with someone he loved. Because that's how life goes -- you fall in love with more than one person. I am just a bit hurt that it doesn't seem like who he has sex with, or why, matters all that much. He says "there's a big difference between meaningful sex and meaningless sex, and our sex is meaningful." However I kind of want a partner who wouldn't consider having the meaningless kind at all, because of what sex means to them -- someone who feels the way I do. Is it unreasonable or unrealistic of me to want that in a partner? Am I just being silly and should get over this hurt because it's not his fault how he feels about it and it shouldn't affect our relationship? I was going to talk to him about this (in person, not via msn :B) tomorrow, but would it cause unnecessary frustration and pain? Should I just let it go and forget about it, not bring it up? sorry for yet another long post D:
Heather
Member # 3
posted 06-21-2009 04:26 PM
Well, I do think that most people -- not just men -- are going to find they have feelings of sexual attraction for people who they may or may not love or know. It's unusual when a person does NOT ever have any such feelings. If you haven't yet in life, you probably will at some point. To expect many people will not have had or have those feelings sometimes doesn't seem realistic to me, no. However, obviously, how or if a person does or wants to enact those feelings is very variable. I'm of the mind that wants aren't reasonable or unreasonale: they are what they are and it's just a matter of figuring out of what we want is attainable or realistic to expect. And I don't think it's unreasonable to want to have a partner who prefers to only have sex with people who are emotionally meaningful to them. And from what I can gather, your partner hasn't said he isn't one of those people: he's just expressed feelings, not actions. (Now, he's generalizing about gender, and not accurately, as this isn't about men or women but both, but whatever. Lots of people make broad generalizations on gender that aren't sound.) I also don't see where he said he has NOT chosen to have sex with you based on the criteria you want: in fact, it sounds like he has said he HAS, so I'm not sure I get your assumptions there. It's sounding a bit to me like you might be jumping to conclusions based on your fears and reactions to his statements, or what you thought they could imply, you know? In other words, I hear you saying he said things I don't see reflected in the actual conversation as you documented it here. [ 06-21-2009, 04:27 PM: Message edited by: Heather ]
patrickvienna
Member # 29269
posted 06-21-2009 05:07 PM
I think both you and your boyfriend make good points, honestly. I can see what you're saying - that if a person can consider sex casually, it's difficult to feel its value when it happens in a relationship as an act of love. And the fact that that bothers you is always enough to make it worth talking about. On the other hand, I can see what he's saying - that sex had for physical pleasure only is different to sex had for pleasure, love, connection to one's partner, all together. Now bear with me, because I have a bit to say about both viewpoints. quote: Should I just let it go and forget about it, not bring it up? Well, no. I think it's always important to discuss things honestly with your partner if they're bothering you. From the sounds of things, your boyfriend is quite communicative, which is great; I doubt he'd mind talking to you about this. However, you should bear in mind that he can't change his sexual history - neither can he apologise for it. The fact that you want to have sex only with people you love, or certainly have strong feelings for, is your personal decision or belief. If you find that's what works best for you, emotionally and sexually, then good for you. I think that's entirely sensible. However, if he feels that sex is something he can also enjoy casually, and see meaning or not as appropriate, then maybe that works for him too. And I personally don't feel someone's enjoyment of casual sex detracts from their ability to have meaningful sex. He may have had sex with women who emotionally meant relatively little to him, but that doesn't affect how special he considers you. Now, bear with me a second, because I know I'm waffling, but I'm coming to a point. The Greeks had at least four words for love : "eros" (sexual desire or passion), "philia" (the love of friendship), "storge" (familial love) and "agape" (affection or unconditional love). Now, you could read thousands of pages of philosophers wittling on about those four, but suffice it to say that they all describe slightly different things, and can be separate. Let me put this to you: in casual sex, there are elements of eros and perhaps philia . There is sexual attraction, and there can be a measure of friendship, but rarely a kind of love we'd associate with 'being in love'. However, in a long term relationship, the sex involves eros , philia , storge , and maybe even, if you're lucky, agape , which of the four translates closest to 'being in love'. And I would say that this kind of sex is fundamentally different from the other kind. So, while I understand your concern, 100%, I think my opinion is that this second kind of sex , the meaningful, relationship kind, is an experience you only get with someone you love; therefore, casual sex doesn't make it less special, because it's a different thing entirely. People can have sex with anyone, but they can only have sex with those they love. I hope what I'm trying to say makes sense. I could probably have put it more eloquently. I certainly think this is something worth talking about with your boyfriend until you feel more comfortable about it.
Onionpie
Member # 41699
posted 06-21-2009 05:07 PM
yes, I get that people can have those sexual attractions towards other people -- but I was talking about wants, as this is what we were discussing in the conversation. He talked about having WANTED to have sex with girls just because they're pretty -- not just being sexually attracted to them. and yes, I think I probably am jumping to conclusions based on my fears and what I thought his statements might have implied, which is why I wanted to talk to him -- find out what he meant, and find out if the way I interpreted what he said was wrong. However, I'm mostly worried about it because previously when I tried to sort out what he really meant, he just threw around those generalizations -- that most men would have sex with any pretty girl, etc etc. So I thought by saying that he sort of gave it away anyway; including himself in "most guys". Do you think it's a good idea to bring this concern up with him?
Onionpie
Member # 41699
posted 06-21-2009 05:11 PM
oops my bad, didn't see your last line there -- sorry! I will be talking about it with him tomorrow, then
Heather
Member # 3
posted 06-21-2009 05:22 PM
I wonder if maybe we're missing each other in terms of how you identify "sexual attraction?" What that generally means IS desire, sexual desire, feelings of desire and want, so when we talk about that, we are talking about wants. We just may or may NOT be talking about enacting or pursuing those desires. And if he keeps generalizing, which is rarely useful, what might help in those discussions when that happens is a simple statement from you, like, "I'm not talking about all men or how you think all men are: I'm just talking about and interested in you, and what you think and feel."
Onionpie
Member # 41699
posted 06-21-2009 06:28 PM
well, I don't really know how exactly to explain it -- but sexual attraction is like, being attracted to someone maybe even enough to fantasize about them, but not actually feel the urge to pursue sex with them. You know? Or am I just confusing? I mean like -- I've found plenty of guys to be fuckin' sexy. However, I have not wanted to actually go out and have sex with them. Maybe even fantasize them, but that fantasy does not cross over into reality. I have not actually felt like getting them to stick their penis in me. For srsly. I find there's a difference between sexual attraction and actually wanting to have sex with someone. Like, for example, if johnny depp, the sexy beast, came up to me one day and offered to have sex with me, I wouldn't have accepted -- even when I was single. Whereas my boyfriend is saying that, if faced with a similar situation, he WOULD have accepted, which makes me uncomfortable because it means his take on sex is different than mine.
Heather
Member # 3
posted 06-21-2009 06:34 PM
Well, I can hear that that might be your experience, but I think a more common experience is that someone we sexually fantasize about or feel strong sexual attraction to is someone we feel sexual urges towards/for, which is why we'd fantasize about them. So, again, I think I understand your experience, but I'm not so sure that's how many other people experience sexual desire and attraction. It may also be that you simply haven't yet had strong enough attraction to someone to also feel that hungry urge that is sexual desire. All the same, I don't see how you two feeling differently about that or -- so far -- having different experiences of sexual desire is a roadblock in a relationship. What'd be important there would be how you two feel about each OTHER, not about hypothetical people or wants around sex were either of you single, no?
Onionpie
Member # 41699
posted 06-21-2009 06:43 PM
well I kind of want a partner who has the same view of sex as I do -- as in, wouldn't have meaningless sex at all (in or out of a relationship; they wouldn't have it because they feel sex is something intimate to be shared with someone you love), which is where I'm finding this to be a bit of a problem.
Heather
Member # 3
posted 06-21-2009 06:55 PM
Okay. You get to want that, to be sure. We all get to have our preferences, after all. So, that means that a) in your current relationship now, you figure out if you can deal with this difference or not, and b) in the future, this is then one of those things you talk about fairly early on to establish if someone feels the same way as you do, since that's clearly important to you. I would just, realistically, be prepared for that to not be the biggest pool to draw from, especially when it comes to what someone would CONSIDER (feel, not just choose not to act on). Again, you seem to be focusing a lot on what your partner MIGHT do, but seems to have made clear he isn't doing with you nor does he intend to do it with others while with you. I might also insert that the word "meaningless" is VERY loaded, and may not be apt for all casual sex scenarios. Plenty of people have had casual sex that was not about deep love or romance, but which they and/or their partners also felt had meaning.