T O P I C R E V I E W
jarvisdc
Member # 94538
posted 02-08-2012 07:57 AM
Hi there, this is my first post but I've heard this us a great site for sex advice and stuff. Basically im 18 and I've never come close to having sex. I've kissed a few girls when drink at parties but that's it. The thing is, as much as I want to experience sex, I don't think it can be just a physical act, since im a pretty shy guy, I'd want to feel somewhat comfortable with the lass. Im not very attractive, people have said I look like the kid off 2 and a half men, a blonde Ed sheeran and that Ewan kid from x factor a few years back. I would sleep with any of my female friends as im comfortable around them, but I don't really fancy them and I don't think they fancy me. For me attraction doesn't come from physical looks, but from whether we click, how nice, funny, friendly they are. The thing is, despite attending a college with over 1200 girls, I've never clicked with any of them. I've only ever clicked with an Irish girl I met online and a friend if a friend who doesn't like me back. Neither are at al my type but I am very attracted to them. Thing is, I worry that a combo if my shyness, bad looks and being unable to click with many girls will lead to me dying a lonely virgin. My mates and I are taking a lads holiday to Holland this summer and have offered to but me an escort, im tempted.
Heather
Member # 3
posted 02-08-2012 10:34 AM
I understand that it can feel like...well, you're feeling right now, but at the same time, I don't see any reason to think that not having had a sexual, physical or romantic relationship by the (truly tender) age of 18 is an indication that you never will. Even if it's not the case with your friends and others around you, quite a lot of people don't have those relationships until after that age. With what your friends are offering, that sounds in pretty direct conflict with what you've said here you really want and what works for you: "clicking" when it comes to interpersonal connection, something unlikely to happen in a real way with a sex worker. (Clients may experience that, but for a sex worker, it's work, not love or friendship, etc. They know to go through the motions of acting connected for clients who want and need that, but it's not real. Again: it's a job.) Can you fill me in more here on what you think is really driving this fear? Right now, what feels so bad for you about not having yet had these kinds of relationships?
jarvisdc
Member # 94538
posted 02-08-2012 04:35 PM
first, thanks for replying I know a sex worker would feel nothing for me, but she would make it comfortable for me. Im sure there's a certain standard if courtesy, and when im talking to a normal girl there's a lot of pressure to say the right thing, to be nice but not to keen, cool but not a dick and to not say something that makes you seem like a year, which is too much for my shy brain to handle. I think this fear comes from various things, one us that I often scare myself by looking on forums and blogs posted by adults in their 30s who are virgins. Another reason is that aside from drink girls whose judgement can't be trusted, I've never had any attention or sexual contact from or with a girl.as you rightly say im only young,but if other guys are having relationships and sex now, even years ago, the only reason I can think that's aren't is that im unattractive to females, and if that's so now, it will be later in life. I could never even have the courage to talk to the girl I liked before, but now that I know she doesn't like me I find it easy. If im this shy forever any potential partner will slip through my fingers. Oh and I made a slight typo in my original post, im 17 not 18, though I am 18 in a couple of weeks. finally, please don't think if me as someone who goes to parties looking for intoxicated girls to take advantage of, im always drink or stoned myself and I never plan it, it's just something that happens at parties full if booze and hormonal ternagets and I'd never do more than kiss.
jarvisdc
Member # 94538
posted 02-08-2012 04:39 PM
Look a twat, not year. New bloody phone keeps correcting everything I type
Heather
Member # 3
posted 02-08-2012 04:48 PM
You okay with me kind of walking through each of these fears one by one?
jarvisdc
Member # 94538
posted 02-09-2012 04:31 AM
Yeah thats fine
Heather
Member # 3
posted 02-09-2012 10:09 AM
Okay. So. quote: when im talking to a normal girl there's a lot of pressure to say the right thing, to be nice but not to keen, cool but not a dick and to not say something that makes you seem like a year, which is too much for my shy brain to handle. I think this fear comes from various things, one us that I often scare myself by looking on forums and blogs posted by adults in their 30s who are virgins. It sounds to me like per those forums, you're kind of scaring yourself on purpose. In other words, like doing that is your version of watching horror films. Other than scaring you, I'm not seeing the value of doing that, and I'd suggest you step away from those spaces. Per talking to any people, of any gender, including girls or women you might have an interest in, I think a lot of the pressure you're feeling is your own. I think of it like this: if, for the most part, with someone I'm interested in, I'm just being myself, they'll either be into me or they won't. But if I'm trying to act like someone else, and that makes them into me...well, they aren't really into me at all, and at some point, my "act" will come clear and they'll go buh-bye. perhaps worse still, if someone wasn't into an act or a show I (or anyone else) was putting on, and that makes them uninterested, I may have missed the chance to have them be into ME by NOT just being who I am. Catch my drift? There's this thing where if and when people don't just treat other people like people, then yeah, they're not likely to connect. We -- you, me, girls, women -- tend to be open to connecting to others around our humanity. If we're treated like aliens or different species, that tends to be off-putting. quote: Another reason is that aside from drink girls whose judgement can't be trusted, I've never had any attention or sexual contact from or with a girl. By all means, alcohol can impair our judgment, but the reason a lot of people, if not most, drink socially, especially those who get really blotto is about social anxiety. It's something they do because they feel similar to how you express feelings socially. I don't think that means you can't trust their judgment, but I have a strategy to suggest to you. Since it's not sound to get sexual with anyone drunk, since they can't give consent, but their interest in you might well be one they'd also have sober, how about just giving someone who IS interested when drunk your number and just telling them to call you if they want when they're not drunk anymore? For sure, some of them probably won't call in the light of day: but some well might. quote: as you rightly say im only young,but if other guys are having relationships and sex now, even years ago, the only reason I can think that's aren't is that im unattractive to females, and if that's so now, it will be later in life. I went to an arts high school in my teens. It was full of talented people, some of whom were getting record contracts and films right then and there. We all started young with our creative work. But what that didn't mean was that anyone else who was NOT doing that level of study and work at that age wasn't talented or didn't want that. It just meant that a) we started young and b) all of us were able to identify and access an opportunity to do that then. Not everyone else was, or even knew they could. Not everyone else felt ready. Everyone else wasn't on the same arc. And if you look at music, art and film careers, you can find loads of people who started later and did very well, and plenty who started early but fizzled out early, too. So, because one group of people does something or has success at something at a certain age doesn't mean everyone who doesn't has something wrong with them. Know what I mean? In so many ways, it's the exact same with sexual and romantic relationships. quote: I could never even have the courage to talk to the girl I liked before, but now that I know she doesn't like me I find it easy. If im this shy forever any potential partner will slip through my fingers. Shyness at certain levels absolutely can be debilitating, and when it's extreme, it usually will get in the way of a LOT of things in life, not just dating. But why assume you'll be this way forever? How about, for instance, getting some help with your shyness and social anxiety? quote: Oh and I made a slight typo in my original post, im 17 not 18, though I am 18 in a couple of weeks. finally, please don't think if me as someone who goes to parties looking for intoxicated girls to take advantage of, im always drink or stoned myself and I never plan it, it's just something that happens at parties full if booze and hormonal ternagets and I'd never do more than kiss. It's okay, and I'm not inclined to make snap judgments. But I would make clear that getting drunk or otherwise stoned isn't something that "just happens" to anyone unless people are drugging someone against their will or without their knowledge. This is something you choose to do, and probably because of your social anxiety. So, again, sounds clear to me that looking into some help with social anxiety would probably really benefit you. What do you think: are you up for that so that you CAN feel more comfortable and less unhappy and fearful?
jarvisdc
Member # 94538
posted 02-09-2012 03:35 PM
I dont think its all about scaring myself, i just want the assurance that i wouldnt be alone. Though i agree, part of it is to scare myself. Hmm but the problem with your analogy is that theres ni reason why i shouldnt have started earlier, i wanted to. When i was 12 i was watching stuff like skins, planning on living a youth full of casual sex, but now im one if the few virgins i know. I dont think my shyness is that bad yet, i can talk to people without trouble, except when i like someone becausr i know i need to say the right thing. I also have bother expressing my feelings because im afraid people will laugh. Also the girl i liked was very pretty, and i couldnt see why shed want someone like me. I dont drink or smoke to ease shyness, its more because i enjoy the sensation. And i meant that the hookups just happen. Im not as shy because the I dont think its all about scaring myself, i just want the assurance that i wouldnt be alone. Though i agree, part of it is to scare myself. Hmm but the problem with your analogy is that theres ni reason why i shouldnt have started earlier, i wanted to. When i was 12 i was watching stuff like skins, planning on living a youth full of casual sex, but now im one if the few virgins i know. I dont think my shyness is that bad yet, i can talk to people without trouble, except when i like someone becausr i know i need to say the right thing. I also have bother expressing my feelings because im afraid people will laugh. Also the girl i liked was very pretty, and i couldnt see why shed want someone like me. I dont drink or smoke to ease shyness, its more because i enjoy the sensation. And i meant that the hookups just happen. Im not as shy because the girls who come on to me are either a friend or nit my type, so im not as self conscious.
Heather
Member # 3
posted 02-09-2012 04:40 PM
What do you mean "no reason you shouldn't have started earlier?" Not everyone has the same social skills or opportunities, period, nor at the same age. And your dreams for your life and what TV you watched really aren't players in something like this, where other people are involved, not just you. Get what I mean? You say with someone you like you "need to say the right thing." can you tell me more about that? The right thing about what? The right things or else...what happens if you say the "wrong" thing? What if and when there isn't any "right" thing? Again, nothing that happens between people "just happens." We all only act when we choose to act. But are you saying those social interactions when you're drinking or otherwise wasted FEEL more like they "just happen," or feel like you can take the actions you do more easily? You've mentioned kissing girls before in those situations. have you ever followed that up with getting contact information and making contact again a day or two later?
jarvisdc
Member # 94538
posted 02-10-2012 01:00 PM
But thats the thing, i dont understand why those opporrunities havent arisen. If you say the wrong thing you could look desperate, foolish, uninterested anything. Those things tend to just happen because im less shy when smashed so clicking isnt an issue. unless they were previously a friend i generally dont make an effort to see them again, because im nit really interested in them in terms of a relationship.
Heather
Member # 3
posted 02-10-2012 01:41 PM
You know, sexual and romantic opportunities and relationships are hardly some kind of exact science, or things which can happen by employing a given strategy. A lot of it comes down to pure dumb luck and timing. At the same time, you keep making clear you struggle with social anxiety: and that is going to limit anyone's social opportunities and abilities. It also sounds like you're saying that if and when you and someone do hook up in some way, you don't follow up by trying any more contact. And so, in that way, that's you declining possible further opportunities, which is probably a big part of why nothing else is happening. In order for relationships to develop, everyone involved has to participate in trying to create and develop them. On saying the 'wrong" thing" yes, saying certain things can make a person look or seem that way. But...well, so? What's the worst that can happen when that happens, save someone just deciding they're not interested? How does saying nothing at all create a different possible result than that?
jarvisdc
Member # 94538
posted 02-10-2012 07:18 PM
I guess youre righr, i always look at things in an objective way. I do get nervous around pwople but in tge last few months ive become more confident. Ive heard that women make subconscious decisions within the first few minutes whether a guy will be friendzoned or not so saying exactly the right thing is crucial. I dont usually contact any girls i pull because through getting to know them throughout the night ive realised theres nothing about her personaliry or looks that interests me beyond a bit if fun
naplement
Member # 46362
posted 02-11-2012 04:27 AM
From the language you use, it seems like you use a "pick-up artist" framework to think about these things, and this isn't helping you, at all. Women are not a different species than men. Their subconscious is not a mystical place never understood. Physical attaction can be there from the first moment, or can just develop slowly. Or it can be absent from the start and never appear. No rule there. And there are things that can kill the mood at any moment. I hate the concept "friendzone", because it is based on the assumption that any woman who receives attention from a guy is therefore in debt and shall pay him with sex, and denying to do so is kind of a crime, but at least being an ******* from her. I think that everybody has the full right to decide who they want to sleep with, and there is no such thing as a debt when we are talking about sex - it should be freely chosen, every time. The concept of friendzone-ing is based on the idea that for a man, being a platonic friend of a woman = losing, because women can't offer anything interesting or valuable, beside sex. If she wants to be your [GENERAL "YOU" here, not you personally] friend and you want strictly sex, then it is an incompatibility of desires just like if she wanted to climb mountains and you wanted someone to debate greek philosophers with. If the situation is irritating, then the solution is stop being a friend, and not pretending to be a friend and becoming more and more upset because the growing "debt", like the "friendzone" model suggests. This is a sad model of how relationships work. Life can be so much better. [ 02-11-2012, 05:37 AM: Message edited by: naplement ]
naplement
Member # 46362
posted 02-13-2012 01:44 AM
I'd like to add that I don't meant to say this to "prove" that you are a bad person, you can be a good person and still have this framework in your mind, it depends of what ideas you happened to meet, I'm just saying that it doesn't help you to think like this. Also, anxiety can spoil a lot of things, as a depressed/anxious person myself I can only recommend getting counselling. It's close to impossible to see the wor objectively when our vision is clouded with such negative assumptions about ourselves. Good luck! [ 02-13-2012, 01:44 AM: Message edited by: naplement ]
Heather
Member # 3
posted 02-13-2012 10:32 AM
Well, what IF a woman decided she's interested in you as a friend and not a lover? No matter what you said? OR, what if what you said that made her feel interested in you as a lover was only really about what you said, not who you were? Where's the value in that? Know what I mean? But when you say this: quote: I dont usually contact any girls i pull because through getting to know them throughout the night ive realised theres nothing about her personaliry or looks that interests me beyond a bit if fun You're not talking about them not considering you, but about you deciding not to consider them. So, clearly this isn't just about girls not "picking" you. This is also about your own choices not to explore things with them.
jarvisdc
Member # 94538
posted 02-14-2012 02:02 PM
Well i suppose what i mean heather, is that the girls i like dont like me. Also, i dont pull very often, havemt kissed a girl since october :/ i suppose heather, that a shag is a shag, whether she likes my words or me. I dont want to be a pick up artist, but i cant help but see truth in what they say. If it was nonsense they wouldmt be getting laid. I feel that i have lost, i really liked this girl and wantef a meaningful relatipnship, all i got was a mate. I have to face facts, that if i want to sleep with someone as beautiful as her, ill have to pay
Heather
Member # 3
posted 02-14-2012 02:08 PM
Okay, but how do you know those girls don't like you if you never follow up? Or are you saying YOU don't like those girls, despite choosing to hook up with them? I'd strongly disagree that a shag is a shag, at least....well, if you actually want to connect with someone at all and have them connect with you, and have there be any value in a shag besides, you know, having a notch on your bedpost to tel friends about. Know what I mean? Also, crummy sex that really isn't what everyone involved actually wants and feels good about doesn't tend to leave people feeling good at all. PUA stuff really isn't nonsense when it comes to tricking people into bed, I agree. Clearly it works on some women (though who it works on best has been studied recently, and the results are pretty sad, IMO: having the ability to manipulate less aware, less educated and less assertive women who buy into traditional gender stereotypes into sex they might not really want were they not being played isn't a win in my book). But I think it's important to ask what that costs everyone involved, long and short-term. Treating people like conquests or things to get tends to have a cost and some outcomes that usually at least one of the people involved, if not both, don't feel great about. [ 02-14-2012, 02:13 PM: Message edited by: Heather ]
Heather
Member # 3
posted 02-14-2012 02:09 PM
Also, can you talk to me a little bit about how you feel this is about beauty or how someone looks to you? You say, "if i want to sleep with someone as beautiful as her, ill have to pay." What do you mean by that? Is a wanted sexual partner for you only someone who fits a given standard of beauty? If so, can you fill me in more on that?
Heather
Member # 3
posted 02-14-2012 02:23 PM
Actually, I'm thinking ti might be sound to just ask you to say what you really want here. You're worried you won't ever have sex with someone else. So, what are you worried you won't experience? In other words, you sound like you're worried you'll be missing out on something pretty big, hardly "just a shag," which I think we can agree, doesn't sound like anything big at all. So, mind talking about what you think you're wanting and looking for in sex with someone else? What are you looking to experience or get? What are you looking for a sexual partner to experience and for you to give them?
jarvisdc
Member # 94538
posted 02-16-2012 07:50 PM
Im saying that althiugh i chose to hook up with them, no, isont really like them. But things like being funny or interesting seem to matter a lot less to me when drunk. yeah saying a shag is a shag is pretty stupid tbh, i didnt mean that. I was thinking in terms of a notch, as you say, you say, as ive always equated my virginity to me being unattractive when im sure its a lot more complex than that. Casual sex with a partner i dont like and wont enjoy definitely wont make me happy. When i described this girls beauty, it was because she was the most aesthetically attractive woman ive ever seen, but she wants nithing to so wirh me. Im average looking at best and although i see sex as more than physical, i would still love to sleep with a girl that hit, but lets fce it, average guys dont get with models. Very shallow i know. Im worried ill miss out on love, on connecting with a partner on an intimate level, learning to please each other, im scared ill miss out on foreplay, blowjobs, every kind if sex and cuddling after. Im scares ill miss out on a sexual relationship more than the sex itself
Robin Lee
Member # 90293
posted 02-16-2012 09:22 PM
I know it seems as if all your friends are in relationships, having sex, or both, and you're not, but trust me, plenty of people don't get into any sort of relationship until they're a lot older than you are. This isn't to say that you shouldn't have the feelings of feeling bad that you do. They're totally normal and understandable. At the same time, it's pretty premature to think that you'll never have a sexual relationship with someone when you've just, at the age of eighteen, started your adult life.
Heather
Member # 3
posted 02-17-2012 10:50 AM
Looking at your answers, I think it would make sense for us to talk about how to think about and approach all of this with what you really want in mind. I also think it may be that some of your fears and anxieties around not being like some of your peers or never having what you want might be standing in the way of you actually finding what you want. You good with me running through some of my thoughts about all of this in that way?
jarvisdc
Member # 94538
posted 02-19-2012 06:59 AM
Yeah im good with that
Heather
Member # 3
posted 02-19-2012 09:33 AM
Okay, before I jump in more, you said you're a Skins watcher, yes? If so, you know all about JJ, Tony, Syd and Cook, yes? (Just asking because sometimes comparisons help when working this stuff out. There's actually some really good fodder for talking about this stuff in Skins, so heck, we may as well use it if we both know it.) [ 02-19-2012, 09:35 AM: Message edited by: Heather ]
jarvisdc
Member # 94538
posted 02-19-2012 11:30 AM
Its been ages since ive seen it but i think i remember those guys
Heather
Member # 3
posted 02-19-2012 11:48 AM
So, can you remember that BOTH Syd and JJ had male friends who were serious players? And that when either tried to kind of go along doing things the way their friends were, they a) didn't really feel right about them, since neither of them really wanted to play anyone and b) that "player" approaches resulted in people getting really hurt or having pretty empty interactions? Whereas once Syd and JJ came to pursuing relationships just being who they were, and approached the girls they were approaching as whole people, not just as what they looked like or as someone to shag, things not only went better for them, but they formed the kinds of relationships that you're talking about wanting yourself here? The point is that the way we come to possible relationships or sexual interactions tends to strongly influence what happens and what we and others wind up with. If what we want is relationships of any kind of depth -- for us and whoever we're involved with -- we can't come to them in shallow ways, or by pretending to be someone we're not. That takes more courage than just trying to play someone or only approaching people when we or they are wasted, to be sure. But relationships take courage, period: approaching each other as whole people takes courage. I think it also might be worth looking at why you're thinking about things like that "average guys don't get with models." Models are still people. Girls who look a certain way are all still people. But I hear you -- as some people will do -- seeing getting with a girl who looks a certain way as offering you something you really want: can you tell me what you think that might be, especially understanding that liking how someone looks based on looks doesn't often tell you anything about them as a person, or mean you'd wind up with the kind of relationship it sounds like you really want here? How do you think a certain way of a girl looking influences something like the kind of love you're saying you're worried you'll miss out on? Perhaps more to the point, if X "kind of girl" hasn't so far expressed interest in you, what about the girls who have? Since those who DO express interest in you are those with the door open to connecting, why not explore that?
jarvisdc
Member # 94538
posted 02-20-2012 05:55 AM
I dont think i pretend to be someone im not, i just try to make a good impression, and although be yourself is good advice, if yourself is someone undesirable maybe changing wouldnt hurt. Another problem i have is that i simply dont have the courage to talk to a girl first. i dont think sleeping with someone incredibly good looking would help me find love, its just something id like to do. Looks dont really affect how i feel about someine, as long as there is some attraction there. I dont feel i deserve love abyway. Theres 3 billion guys on the planet, why would any woman choose me over all the others unless she was settling. Im average looking, shy, nerdy and only interesting ir funny to certsin people. Even if im brave enough to ever talk to a girl i like (unlikely) then the odds that she'll like me back and pick me over every other guy in the world are astronomical
Heather
Member # 3
posted 02-20-2012 09:47 AM
Okay, so a couple things. For one, what it really sounds like to me -- and I mentioned this a little bit earlier -- is that your energy and focus right now is put on working on your own self-esteem, or like my friend Justin calls it, "bigging yourself up."http://bishuk.com/2010/06/11/big-up-yourself/ There's a funny thing that happens, see, when we DO really connect with someone, whether that's about having sex, a larger relationship, or both. Sure, we can feel validated in some ways. But what those things also do is amp our insecurity, especially if we're already feelings insecure. Because all those questions you're asking here about why any girl would want to be with you? If and when one is, if you haven't improved your self-esteem, those questions are likely to only get louder in your head, not quieter, resulting in you feeling even more lousy and often in screwing up that relationship. So, ideally? I'd really work on you and connecting with YOU for now, maybe getting some help with that. If you can feel better about yourself, this all gets a lot easier and then if you do connect with someone you really like, you won't tank it with your own self-loathing. If you don't feel like you deserve love, and you've said right here you don't, then it's not going to happen and you're not going to be open to it when it does. It sounds corny, I know, but we really do have to love ourselves before others can and before we can also really love others. When you've made some headway there, there's something else I want you to know. That thing where you say that only certain people really get you, way less than the billions of people on the planet there are? Well, that's actually what having a real connection with someone else is about. Really, for any of us, only so many people get us, and the people we really, really connect with you really, really like the unique people we are intensely? Those would be the people we have intimate relationships with, which usually, in a lifetime, isn't going to be much more than a few people, not a whole lot of people. Not only is that okay, that's what makes finding and cultivating a real connection so awesome and valuable. And that goes both ways: a person who really gets and likes all of unique you in big ways will be getting that from you, about them, when it's all good, too.
jarvisdc
Member # 94538
posted 02-20-2012 07:44 PM
I do have self esteem, i like myself, and i feel by boosting it id end up in a state of delusional arrogance. Sure, im okay, but therrs no reasin why any woman shouls choise me over all other guys, frankly i cant afford to have the standards i have right now. I think i have been in love once, that must sound silly considering my age. But she lives abroad, ireland to be precise and has a boyfriend. I canr realistically expect to meet someone like her, someone that amazing and have her be single, local and interesred in me above all others. But that doesnt mean i have low self esteem.
naplement
Member # 46362
posted 02-21-2012 01:21 AM
In practice, you are not "rivalizing" with all those millions of men. People meet a limited number of people directly, there is a smaller number they feel generally compatible for, a smaller number they really like, and a smaller one to fall in love with. Do YOU even feel like having infinite possibilities, with those 3 billion theoretical women out there, or do you feel your own limitations based on geographical proximity, shared interests, even relationship status (like that girl who happened not to be single!)? You wrote that your own choices are limited, so why wouldn't a compatible woman's choices be?
jarvisdc
Member # 94538
posted 02-21-2012 04:32 AM
I dont really like the idea that a woman is only with me becausr im the best she can do at the time either.
Heather
Member # 3
posted 02-21-2012 09:36 AM
What are the standards you have now? I don't know why you think it sounds silly to say you think you've been in love once at your age. Young people can feel and experience all kinds of love just like people of any age can. I'm not concerned that you're going to become arrogant if you give yourself some more value. I didn't mean to hit a nerve in talking about self-esteem, and it sounds like I did. But at the same time, someone who says something like, "therrs no reasin why any woman shouls choise me over all other guy," clearly isn't holding themselves in very high esteem. And if and when someone feels there is no reason for someone to get close to them, then yes, that is a barrier to relationships, and yes, we can be certain a person just doesn't think very highly of themselves. Mind, like naplement said, no person is choosing one person over all other people. None of us has the opportunity to even meet everyone on earth, let alone have everyone as a possibility for a relationship. I think, per your last post, I might also posit that any one of us is "only" with the people we are because they're the best we can do at the time in some ways. We all only have the opportunities we do at a given time, after all, and if of them, we're choosing to connect with the people we think are the best people we can connect with...well, that's pretty much how social relationships go, really.
jarvisdc
Member # 94538
posted 02-21-2012 12:59 PM
My standards arw high in that i would only date nice, friendly, funny girls with whom i have several things in common such as religious beliefs, political ideaology and musical taste, and who i find attractive. As you can imagine there isnt a great deal of girls like that where i live, less so who like me back. I also worry that no girl i e er meet will live up to her from ireland. You didnt hit a nerve hesther, dont worry. I dont think im an attractive guy so i dont see why anyone would want to sleep with melet alone spend the rest of her life with me.
Heather
Member # 3
posted 02-21-2012 01:08 PM
I don't see those as high standards. I see those as things you want. But I do think things like nice people with whom you have common ground with the things most important to you isn't asking a lot: that's ground zero, the most basic thing people tend to want and need for healthy, happy relationships. Everyone is entitled to that. Like II said, I do think you need to recognize that the way you view yourself really does NOT speak of a healthy self-esteem. It really doesn't. And around relationships and every other part of your life, not working on that is going to really limit the quality of your life, at best, and mess you right up, at worst. It also is a HUGE barrier to connecting with other people. Probably as big as you think how you look is, which is likely less of a barrier than how you see yourself. Get what I mean? By all means, when we connect with someone we really like and feel for, and then that relationship ends or doesn't happen, it can feel very, very scary when it comes to potentially never feeling that way again or connecting that way again. That's something a lot of people deal with at some point in their lives. I think a lot of us have been in that spot and know how overwhelming it can feel. But again, if we were having this talk with you in your 30s or 40s, I think this would be a different conversation, because having years pass where we don't experience those kinds of deep, intense connections isn't at all unusual for anyone: it's quite typical because connecting that way really can be quite rare. But that doesn't mean it won't happen again. And I think if you can first take care of the barriers you, yourself, are putting up to those kinds of connections, that's going to make it much, much more likely it will happen again, and sooner, rather than later. It can be so easy to kind of put our stuff on other people, or buy into our own...well, bullshit, about unchangeable things about ourselves, like how we look, to avoid looking at and working on the harder stuff. Again, that's not just you, that's people, period. But it also sounds like you don't want to stay stuck, so I'd strongly encourage you to try.
jarvisdc
Member # 94538
posted 02-22-2012 08:04 AM
Maybe i am entitled to those things, id really like them, but therrs fantasy amd theres reality. I should take what i can get and be grateful. Youre right heather, my self esteem sucks. I have good and bad days, and today is awful. I never had friends in school, my dad left because of me, every girl i know sees me as a friend and when i posted a photo online asking abiut my looks most women said i was unnatractive, getting a lot of 2s and 4s. I dont have much value for myself, i just dont understand why any woman would want to have a romantic relationship with me. Girls i know often talk about their boyfriends, how attracted to him they are, hiw much they enjoy sleeping with him etc and why on earth would any girl talk abour me, a fat nerdy loser, that way. So yeah, my self esteems in the guttet, but only becausr no ones ever cared enough for me to have a reason to raise it. I know a guy whos 27 and never had sex or a girlfriend, hes nice, very mice in fact, but shy and nit very goid looking. In 10 years time ill wake up and be him, i should stop being so delusional and just get used to lonliness.
Heather
Member # 3
posted 02-22-2012 09:17 AM
So, here's the deal: you kind of have to choose between staying stuck like you are and trying to change things. If you want to stay stuck -- a la "i should stop being so delusional and just get used to lonliness" == that's totally your choice, obviously, but it also doesn't make much sense for us to keep talking and trying to help. Because we can't help if you aren't willing to try some changes. So, do you WANT to feel differently about yourself and be more open, with less barriers, to connecting with other people, including girls? If you do, it's very clear you are going to have to seek out some help and invest energy when it comes to improving your sense of self. If you want to do that, we can probably help you find some places to get extra help, and make some life changes to support that. If you don't, or don't feel ready to try that yet, that leaves us at an impasse. Again, that's okay, but it also just isn't sound for us to keep engaging constructively and with the aim of positive change if you're going to keep coming back to framing all of this as just how things are and always will be (which tends to be a pretty self-fulfilling prophecy, too).
jarvisdc
Member # 94538
posted 02-22-2012 11:31 AM
Id love for things to change, and theres no harm in trying, however i cant say im convinced it will work. I just wish there was some way i could be assured that i will have fufilling romantic relationships in the futire, because right now the idea of it seems a million miles away, im so used to rejection and singledom. Frankly, if i cant make connections now, and women dont fancy me now, why will that change in time.
September
Member # 25425
posted 02-22-2012 11:44 AM
Hey Jarvis. I don't want to butt in on the conversation you are having with Heather, but I think maybe I can offer a little bit of perspective for you. You are saying you have a hard time imagining things changing from the way they are now, so maybe it will help you to hear from someone who's been there and done that. In high school, I was your stereotypical bookish nerd. I was socially awkward and preferred books to people, and so did most of my friends. Most of us never had any dates or partners throughout all of high school. But, people change, and so do circumstances and social circles. We graduated from high school and went on to college, and within a couple of years we had all expanded our social circles, cultivated new interests, changed through our new experiences - and started dating. So, I get that it can feel like things will never change and you will always be lonely. I do. But just because it feels that way now doesn't mean it will stay that way.
Heather
Member # 3
posted 02-22-2012 01:23 PM
Really, the idea that because you're not connecting now -- and mind, you've made clear you are, it's just that you don't choose to follow up with the girls it seems you actually connect with, so there's that -- means you won't ever just doesn't make any sense based on what those of us who work in these fields know squares with the reality of many, many people. It especially doesn't make sense in your teens, since a whole lot of people in their teens don't start forging and experiencing romantic connections until later on. To boot, as I've said more than a few times here, some of what isn't happening has a lot to do with not how you look, etc. but with choices you're making and barriers you're either creating or not working to change. So, yeah, if you keep these same attitudes and this same sense of yourself, if you stick with these same approaches, things probably won't change. But that will have a lot to do with you making that choice. If you start working on changing those things in positive ways, a lot of this probably will change, and you'll feel a lot better to boot. But it's up to you. Happy to help with that, but think we're at a point where I need to set a limit and say either we move forward, with you ditching the "woe is me" stuff (I get you feel that way, I do, but holding onto it like that by repeating it here isn't constructive and makes it mighty hard to help you out) and us making some plans together you can get started on to start turning some of this around. If you don't feel up to that yet, that's okay, but if so, think it's time to say the best bet per what we can do, in that case, is for you to pop back here to continue this conversation when you are. Okay? If you DO want to start doing some work on this, can you tell me where you are in the UK so I can see what kinds of in-person resources are available to you?
jarvisdc
Member # 94538
posted 02-22-2012 08:07 PM
Thanks for the input joey, college does offer a lot of sociall opportunities, but i wont be going, by june ill be unempliyed. And even if i was more social threres a massive difference between meeting people, which i do, and meeting people who like me. Youre right heather, im being self defeatest. I live in cottingham, in the east riding of yorkshire. I would like to add heather, that the connections i have made on nights out have been with existing friends, a girl i later fiund out was underage (she said she was 16 though, i didnt find out the trutg until the next day) or girls who were having a bet. Theres only been one wasted opportunity
Heather
Member # 3
posted 02-23-2012 10:27 AM
So, I think a good place to start might be with the Humber NHS Foundation Trust: http://www.humber.nhs.uk/about-our-trust/contact-us.htm What I'd suggest is calling them and asking about what services they have for older adolescents in need of help with esteem-building and, potentially, since I think this may be an issue, depression. Just ring them up and find out what's available and we can start there, okay?
jarvisdc
Member # 94538
posted 02-24-2012 08:56 AM
Thank you. Is it confidential? Only i wouldnt want my mum to know.
Heather
Member # 3
posted 02-24-2012 09:39 AM
It certainly should be, but that's something you can ask about when you call to see what they offer.
jarvisdc
Member # 94538
posted 02-26-2012 06:05 PM
Okay I'll give them a call, thank you for your help heather, all the best. Would I be okay to come back if I run into anymore problems?
Heather
Member # 3
posted 02-27-2012 10:40 AM
Of course. I hope they can connect you with some good help and that it works out for you. I'm looking forward to you feeling a lot better about yourself soon!