T O P I C R E V I E W
Member # 41657
posted 11-16-2012 04:13 PM
So, I broke up with my first boyfriend earlier this year. We were each others' first partners, and he was very accepting and supportive about my need for lube, in fact he really liked the way a condom felt on his penis with lube too, so he was pretty enthusiastic about it for both of us. Since I broke up with him, I've had sex with two different guys, one of whom was supportive of my need for lube but says that his other partners didn't need it, though he didn't mean it in a "so why do you" way. The other guy was supportive... sort of, but I didn't really feel like he was very supportive of my sexuality and what I needed to have good sex - he didn't like that I masturbated in order to orgasm and become aroused enough to have comfortable intercourse first, he said that it was like I was off in my own little world. Well, it's pretty hard to feel turned on when I can tell that someone views my needs as an inconvenience and a distraction and when they LICKED MY FACE without asking even though I have very complicated feelings about saliva being somewhat OCDish and that's just an unusual thing to do that you don't just go in for without asking. I'm not saying it's ever ok to do anything without consent, but there's a difference between leaning in for a kiss to see if it's wanted and just randomly doing something like licking someone's face when you haven't even asked if they like that. I know it's not like what I do has to be what everyone else or the majority of people do for it to be acceptable/right/good, but it's hard not to feel like I'm doing something wrong, like I'm somehow out of touch with how most people have sex, and I keep on thinking I'm a slut, and I haven't thought that in ages, and it's alternated with thinking I've got something wrong with the way I become aroused because I really don't produce much genital lubrication (I have a vulva and vagina)... I do think that I have a harder time getting aroused than some other people due to complex sexual shame issues (which included worrying obsessively that I might be a paedophile for much of my teens), but that's a separate issue than the vaginal dryness, which I think is caused by a combination of genetic pot luck and the birth control I'm on (I was never that wet to begin with and got more noticeably dry when I started on my BC)... I dunno, I just need someone to say something that'll make it all better, I'm crying right now.
[ 11-16-2012, 04:21 PM: Message edited by: Jill2000Plus ]
Member # 90293
posted 11-16-2012 04:34 PM
There's no one way that most people have sex. There's a one (or, to be more realistic, a few ways people think they're *supposed* to have sex. Some people follow that course (and may or may not be happy with it), while other people are in tune with their bodies and needs, as it sounds like you are. With the guy who said it seemed like you were in your own world, and who licked your face without asking if that was good, it really sounds as if the two of you were just incompatible sexual partners. That doesn't say anything, good or bad, about you. That's just going to happen sometimes that people are not compatible with each other, and it can be a subtle thing we won't know until we've had sex with them. It's typical for a lot of people on hormonal birth control to find that they have thicker, or even less, vaginal lubrication. The guy whose other partners didn't need the lube... I would venture to say that some of them didn't need it, and some of them didn't use it because they didn't know about it or thought that they weren't "supposed" to use it. Besides, using lube with condoms reduces the risk of them breaking, and that's true for everyone, no matter how much vaginal lubrication they produce. Arousal is a completely separate thing from vaginal lubrication. Many people can have copious vaginal secretions all the time, whether they're feeling aroused or not, and other people can feel eetremely aroused and not have much in the way of lubrication at all...and of course many people fall somewhere along the spectrum in between. You're not a bad person, and you're not "broken" sexually. What do you think would help you with this right now?
Member # 96773
posted 11-16-2012 04:36 PM
There are a whole lot of guys out there who were really only introduced to ideas about girls' sexuality and issues around and to do with women and their arousal, orgasms, etc. through different forms of mainstream media- may it be movies, songs, or even porn/erotica- and/or their friends/friends' experiences/ideas, which were often instructed by the exact same material. Sadly, without access to good, comprehensive sex ed, these guys don't really necessarily experience contradiction to these ideas, because there are also a lot of females who had the same/similar restrictive access to sex ed, and so don't know their bodies/sexuality/sexual experience is so common/normal, so don't speak up, because they feel ashamed or otherwise like the odd one out. This ends up a bunch of ways, but can also mean that girls who may otherwise prefer to use lube (and let's be honest here, I think the vast majority of partners could do with lube- when can you ever have too much lube??) end up sore for days afterwards.
SO, first of all, Jill, know that your experience/preference with natural and additional lubrication is COMPLETELY NORMAL. This emphasis on female wetness, and the unfortunate anti-lube that's come with it is really relatively new. And regardless of the real source of it, PLEASE KNOW that whatever is building this really misleading idea up (whether it be newer rap songs, porn, video games or whatever else possible that sometimes is seemingly involved in stressing this) is NOT based on scientific fact- the average woman does not experience anything like the gushing wetness portrayed as existing regularly as a part of penis-in-vagina sex. Unfortunately, this means that guys who may generally be nice and accommodating just have a hard time understanding at first the apparent gap from what they'd taken for granted were certain things that came with penis-vagina sex--- and what is actually the(ir) reality. And I say at first because I have a great number of female friends (and have spoken to several people with similar experiences throughout my history as a sex educator) who've have had experiences with a number of guys who made them feel bad about themselves by pointing out/openly asking why they "weren't wet enough." But you know, this is just WRONG, and it's based on a misunderstanding, and while guys can initially misunderstand- based on their limited/misleading sources of information- and think things like you (the general you) aren't attracted to them enough, or the way(s) you use to become aroused enough for intercourse are "wrong" or "weird," the good guys are usually receptive to reeducation. (I've directed several guys to this here site over the years!) And a good, clear, straight-forward conversation with a partner (during which you can also correct other myths, like explaining how MOST women need clitoral or other additional stimulation to orgasm during penis-vagina intercourse) who is caring and respectful of your needs and desires can often lead not only to apology and recanting of previous statements, but a better understanding of, and interest in, your modes and means of arousal and overall pleasure. This face-licking guy? Sounds like at the very least NOT a compatible partner- definitely one of the guys who have not been confronted with a lot of the correct information. You have nothing to be ashamed of, Jill! Honestly- this viewing your needs "as an inconvenience and a distraction?" I obviously don't know the guy, but if that is how you feel he was viewing your perspective on your partnered experience, I think a lot of this bad feeling came definitely not only from probably a bunch of misunderstandings- but from the fact that you probably just are not very well matched. A lot of people have different kinds of hang-ups or issues re their sexuality that they struggle with, and in these cases, the best partners for them will often know, or at least, try, to be conscious of the possibility of certain boundaries when getting to know a new sexual partner. It just does not sound like this kind of behavior is a priority for this guy. So, while this may not make you feel better in the midst of upset, know that, reasonably, you are in no way experiencing OR responding in a weird or, as Robin said, "broken" way. This guy is NOT just a partner who pushed the wrong button and/or revealed your insecurities- he sounds like his ideas as they are (misinformed) right now could potentially make him a self-esteem-crushing partner for many women, at least temporarily- that is to say, many women have very similar experiences to yours, especially re lubrication, so there is nothing here you should feel sad about. Hope that helps! [ 11-16-2012, 04:59 PM: Message edited by: Claire P. ]
Member # 41657
posted 11-16-2012 04:37 PM
Thankyou so much for responding so quickly when you're so busy, I'm having a hard time thinking of a coherent response because I'm so choked up with tears, but I can't tell you how much that means to me, thankyou.
Member # 90293
posted 11-16-2012 04:44 PM
How about you take a break and do something nice for yourself?
Member # 41657
posted 11-16-2012 04:58 PM
In fairness to the face licking guy, he didn't lick my face again when I told him I didn't like it, and he did seem to be willing to find a way of working on things when I explained the problem, I just wasn't up for trying again because there was no way to know whether he'd actually changed or not, he might have earnestly wanted to change, but I just wasn't really up for taking a chance on that. He said he was happy to adjust to my needs, and I don't think he's abusive, but I'm not really willing to deal with young (he's 19), inexperienced guys who haven't learned better yet - especially since this relatively ok experience of not being a good sexual fit with someone where it seemed to be possibly more about lack of understanding than willful ignorance or lack of caring still made me feel this way. I know that not every sexual encounter is going to be great, sometimes someone won't be a good sexual fit and I'm basically prepared for that... but I can't deal with someone not knowing the basics of how women's bodies work when it comes to sex.
EDIT: So it's clear, I'm not saying that all younger guys are like this, and actually I'd have similar fears with much older men who might have a bunch of old-fashioned sexism that they haven't worked through, it's just that, particularly considering that I'm getting to the point where I don't really want to date anyone under 20 as I'm almost 24 now for reasons that have nothing to do with thinking that younger people are less good at being good partners in romantic relationships and are more to do with just feeling like we're in different places in life, I really feel like it's just not good for me to date guys that age even if they make the first move, because right now I just don't feel up for being my partner's sexuality educator moreso than their sexual partner - I wouldn't necessarily have to do that with younger guys, but it's more likely. [ 11-16-2012, 05:08 PM: Message edited by: Jill2000Plus ]
Member # 96773
posted 11-16-2012 05:02 PM
[ 11-16-2012, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: Claire P. ]
Member # 96773
posted 11-16-2012 05:05 PM
Yep, I actually just thought that over and changed my last two paragraphs above to reflect this!
I definitely think there is just a lot of ignorance out there-- but you're right in thinking that if you feel you need a partner coming into the situation with a certain set of knowledge, experiencing anything that doesn't resemble that in even a small way is going to be upsetting. And it's true that sometimes age *can* sometimes be a relevant factor in what we find we prefer, even if it just seems like a few years on the surface! Have you thought about maybe referring to the ST sexual stocklist a little when talking with a new partner about the possibility of becoming sexually active with them? Could help to up-front get out certain fears or discomforts, especially in the easier/more casual context of asking about theirs as well. http://www.scarleteen.com/article/advice/yes_no_maybe_so_a_sexual_inventory_stocklist [ 11-16-2012, 05:20 PM: Message edited by: Claire P. ]
Member # 41657
posted 11-16-2012 07:25 PM
That's a good idea (the sexual inventory stocklist), thanks Claire P. I was hoping I'd be past feeling insecure like this by now, thanks to Scarleteen for being there for me, I do feel better, I also feel tired. I shall get some sleep
Member # 50827
posted 11-16-2012 11:23 PM
I agree with basically all that has already been said. So, really my comment is just to say that you are not alone in needing/wanting to use lube and having your male sexual partner not understanding why it is necessary. I wonder if men sometimes see it as a reflection on them - ie. that they haven't made a woman aroused enough to be 'wet', and hence explains, in part, why some men may not like/welcome the use of lube. But you should definately continue to use it, if that's what you want to do. hope you're feeling better about it all
Member # 56822
posted 11-24-2012 04:40 AM