T O P I C R E V I E W
Member # 56775
posted 08-12-2012 12:35 PM
Hi everyone! So I've got a few things on my mind and I was wondering if you wouldn't mind helping me sort it out
I was talking with my parents about gay marriage yesterday and while my mom is pretty simple about it- she thinks they should just be allowed to get married and doesn't really have much fuss towards them at all, my dad is a different story. He is not a homophobe and he respects them and hates hearing about abuse to gay people, ultimately he believes that they're not normal and that gay unions should stay the way they are now because if the government made it legal it would be saying that their behavior is "okay", which he does not believe is right because he believes that homosexuality is "obviously wrong"... That whole "the parts don't fit, man and woman are meant to be together" mindset. I was raised in that mindset and while I never had any problem with the lgbt community I always thought of it as "abnormal" because it's uncommon (or is it? My dad says its a very small percent, but I don't know if data can be so accurate because of all the people in the closet) Anyway, I identified as straight for 17 years and only within the past 7 months have had bisexual thoughts and have been identifying as bisexual. I never had any bi thoughts before this year and I don't know where they came from, and this makes me think that sexuality isn't flat out nature driven (I don't know that I was "born this way" cause I was straight for a long time). Is it possible that's grew bi feelings from my experiences? I feel head over heels for a gay guy, an ex friend of mine came out as gay and we even kissed and I liked it but before then I'd never thought about kissing a girl. I don't know, it just feels so strange that I'm all of a sudden bi when I was straight for so long. And getting back to my dad....my problem is I can't figure how homosexuality or anything of the like can be "normal" because of the whole "the parts don't fit" sort of thing. But at the same time there doesn't feel anything wrong with liking girls and boys to me. It's when my dad starts talking that I doubt what I personally think, like maybe what I think is wrong or something. It also doesn't help that there isn't enough scientific info on this stuff (I don't put religious things into anything so what the bible says means nothing to me in this respect). I know there's not a specific question among all this, but maybe you could give your opinion on the things I mentioned? I know a lot of people here say sexuality is fluid, but I've never known it to be among the people I know so it's not a very solid statement for me sometimes. Any thoughts or facts or opinions on all this would be awesome and so appreciated because I'm getting pretty confused. Thanks so much!
Member # 95998
posted 08-12-2012 03:35 PM
Hey Ohana! In terms of having recently had bisexual thoughts, I don't think that's so unusual. Sexuality's a lot more fluid than we as a society give it credit for. So, if you in the past have mainly found guys to be attractive, and now you find that you also have an attraction to girls, that's really not all that unusual.
Honestly, before 6th grade, I pretty much thought I was 100% straight (this was before I learned from my 8th grade sex ed teacher that sexual orientation, like gender and sex, is on a spectrum), until I met my best friend who I (at the time) had developed a bit of a crush on. I started having sexual thoughts about men and women later on in middle school, and I was confused as to why I was thinking these thoughts. Then, in high school, I kept feeling uncomfortable with identifying as straight or as lesbian since I found myself attracted to either sex (if we're thinking in binary terms of sex). So, I tried to suppress any sort of attraction I had to women and only focused on the attraction that I had to men. Well, as you probably could've guessed, that didn't work out and I kept feeling conflicted and confused since, when I was little I was only attracted to guys. Then, I thought about how sexuality has the capability to shift throughout a person's lifetime and how sexual orientation is on a spectrum; meaning that a person's sexual orientation doesn't need to necessarily stay the same for their whole life and that most people tend not to ever be "100% gay" or "100% straight" and might instead just lean strongly towards one end or the other or anywhere in the middle of the spectrum. Once I finally came out to myself as being bisexual (after trying to deny it for years in order to avoid running into trouble from other people/society, and to avoid trying to have to figure out another aspect of myself), I felt so much more comfortable in my own skin. Maybe the reason why you haven’t heard people around you say that their sexuality has been fluid, is because of the stigma attached to being homosexual/bisexual? Just a thought. As for scientific research on sexuality, but there had been research done by Alfred Kinsey who pretty much brought the “sexual orientation is on a spectrum” idea to the forefront of sexology by creating the Kinsey Scale. There have also been other sexual scientists who've done research on this part of the field as well. As for feeling unsure if what you’re thinking or feeling is “abnormal”, I’d first like to say that I’m sorry that your dad's views have made you feel uncomfortable about your sexuality. *hug* Second, thinking about or engaging in consensual sexual activities (regardless of their sex) with other people is not the least bit “abnormal”; it just means that you’re thinking about or enjoying sexual activities. It wasn't "abnormal" to like kissing your friend (who I'm assuming is female, from the context of your post). I’d like to address your question about how homosexuality/bisexuality could be "normal", since there are definitely reasons to back up its normality. Just because “the parts don’t fit” doesn’t mean that the sexual acts between people isn’t normal. For example, when a man and a woman engage in oral or manual or anal sex together, their “parts” aren’t “fitting” in the way that they would during sexual intercourse, but yet people still would consider the acts between them to be “normal” simply because they’re of two different sexes. The only difference for gay/lesbian/bisexual people engaging in oral/manual/anal sex together is that they’re people of the same sex having sex with each other. That’s it. It’s really all about how society has framed sexual intercourse as being the only “real” form of sex when there are a plethora of other sexual activities for people to engage in. I hope that this post answered your questions or helped to ease your concerns (even a little bit). If you wanna talk some more or ask more questions, then just keep posting! [ 08-12-2012, 03:37 PM: Message edited by: MusicNerd ]
Member # 56775
posted 08-12-2012 04:38 PM
Hey, thanks so much for responding!
As for the spectrum thing, you're probably right that people have had fluid thoughts or actions but I don't know about them because it's not really my business ya know? So just because I know a small amount of people who are simply straight as far as I see doesn't mean that there aren't tons of people who have non straight feelings sometime in their lives. I also agree with your last paragraph about literal sexual acts. The main reason my dad is uncomfortable thinking about gays is because of the anal sex (and just the image of two dudes kissing....my mom isn't bothered by that though) but I don't know if he realizes that straight couples do in fact do the same things gays do, just with the opposite sex. Physical sex techniques are varying and not just intercourse, something I already know and assume my dad knows (I don't pry about that though...I have no interest in knowing about what he does in bed haha) The ex friend was a girl, yeah. Ive always liked guys even when I was little, but within the past year I fell hard for one girl, had a physical attraction to another, and had a "maybe I like her?" sort of feelings for the girl I kissed, so all of the girl liking feelings came this year with no warning. My last thing is still about how lgbt members are way less in number than straight people, which is what my dad says and also uses their small number to further his point that it's abnormal and wrong. Idk I mean I think there isn't a problem being attracted to either gender, but then my dad goes on to compare it to other "deviant sexual feelings" for lack of a better phrase, like dudes who like children or things like that. But my thing is that you can't compare the two because gay couples are consenting to it. Idk maybe I'll talk to him about it but seeing as I don't plan on telling him I'm bisexual anytime soon it would be a strange thing to bring up and only end in an argument. Ugh I'm ranting now haha but I'll stop now.
Member # 95998
posted 08-12-2012 06:28 PM
No problem, Ohana!
I forgot to mention in my last post, that even the same toys can be used in both heterosexual and homosexual activities (ex. dildos, vibrators, etc). So that's another similarity that they share. You know, developing romantic or sexual feelings for anyone (regardless of their sex), never really comes with a warning. Crushes tend to just happen without any sort of rhyme or reason, you know? So, with your female crushes, they're probably just as unexpected as your male crushes have been; in the past, you might've expected your crushes to be male, but you might not have expected to have crushes on those specific men, right? There was probably no warning from somewhere saying, "Oh, by the way, you're going to like this guy in about 5 minutes and 23 seconds." If you want to talk more about the crushes you've had on girls, I'd be willing to listen (or read, technically, since we're on an Internet forum ). There are several parts of the whole "LGBT = sexual minority = 'wrong'" that I'd like to point out. 1. The number of people "in the closet" or in denial of their sexuality due to social stigma could contribute to the seemingly small number of LGBT people out there (I think you mentioned this point earlier). Also, considering that there is such a wide and varying spectrum of sexuality out there, some people who might be considered "bisexual" or "gay" by others might not themselves identify with those labels. AND 2. I'd like to think about other minorities when thinking about "sexual minority = 'deviant' behavior". For example, black people are in the minority in the U.S., but being black does not mean that one is inherently "abnormal" or "deviant". Men are also in the minority in the U.S., but just because one is male doesn't mean that he would automatically be "wrong". So, just like being a minority in other instances, being a sexual minority doesn't make someone inherently bad (especially if, as you pointed out, it's consensual sex). As for bringing up LGBTQ topics to him or coming out to him, that's totally up to you and how you think it would go over. My dad used to be very homophobic when I was younger but my mom was always really chill with it. He didn't really start coming around until I started making LGBTQ friends at my new middle school and he realized that maybe they weren't so bad after all and that it's okay if they get married and all that. Mind you, this took years (of me making friends and defending LGBTQ people in conversations with him) for him to realize this, and I wouldn't have come out to him about being bi if he still held those same homophobic views; but because he improved so much, I felt comfortable enough to tell him and he handled it really well. I'm not saying that this will be the exact same situation for you, but I'm saying that maybe your father will change his mind in the future; but if not, then it's up to you if you ever do want to come out to him or not. Also, it's totally fine if you don't want to come out at any point (regardless of his views), since that's ultimately your decision and no one else's. [ 08-12-2012, 09:28 PM: Message edited by: MusicNerd ]
Member # 56775
posted 08-12-2012 09:53 PM
Well the way killed girls was slower than when I fell for a guy...like I saw it as just a "girl crush" but when I couldn't get her off my mind and started wanting to be around her all the time, I began to think that it was a legitimate crush. It's just that when I liked a guy it was pretty instant, the attraction, but with the girls it took longer, especially sexually, which had me questioning the validity of my feelings. But now it think that it's just that liking someone feels different with each person, and maybe even for me with each gender.
I really don't think being gay or anything of the like is "obviously wrong" (until my dad starts talking about it because to me it's like he's my dad how could he be wrong when I agree with him on so many other things?) because I think it's more common than statics say especially because of closeted people and people who change orientation later in life and everything. Also if it's true that homosexuality is found in other animals than it makes it even more normal because animals work with basic instincts and natural things ya know? And as for the whole sexual part of it....like we've said, it's consenting people doing activities that hetero couples do as well so there's not much difference there.