T O P I C R E V I E W
Member # 29269
posted 10-14-2006 03:44 PM
The Christian Churches are so bigoted against anything other than heterosexuality. quote: Teenage boys can be confused about their sexual attractions. They can go through a phase of being attracted to those of the same sex, but in the vast majority of cases they simply grow out of it and develop a normal attraction for women. Engaging in homosexual activity at this age could entrap them in a lifestyle which they would otherwise have avoided. How can they dismiss homosexality as 'a phase' like this? And how is attraction for women 'normal'? I'm also not keen on the use of the word 'entrap'. Homosexuality is an orientation which the vast majority of homosexual people are happy with. All this is from a Church with no knowledge of any kind of sexual relationship (since to be a member at any decision-making level, you have to be a celibate male and almost always fairly elderly). Here's the link to the rest of the article: http://www.christian.org.uk/briefingpapers/homosexualageofconsent.htm Another disturbing thing is this: quote: Equalising the age of consent with the age for heterosexual activity sends out the message that homosexual activity is morally equal to heterosexual activity. God forbid we should have equality.
Final thought: the legal term for anal sex is buggery. Why? Why such an offensive word?
Member # 8067
posted 10-14-2006 04:02 PM
The Christian Churches are so bigoted against anything other than heterosexuality. You know, "the Christian Churches" aren't a homogenous group. There are churches that welcome GLBT members and include GLBT people as priests and ministers. And there are a whole lot of individual Christians who are GLBT or allies to GLBT people, and who are working to change their churches. I agree that bigotry is a huge issue, but making sweeping generalizations and presenting one website as if it represented the views of all churches in the world is not fair or helpful.
Member # 26880
posted 10-14-2006 06:10 PM
I don't find the word buggery particularily offensive.
[quote=article]Lowering the age of consent for buggery also means that 16 and 17 year old girls will be exposed to the health risks of anal intercourse.[/quote] As opposed to the health risks of vaginal and oral intercourse? *shrug*. I've seen more frightening. And less frightening. It's one of those drops of horror in what we know as "the world".
Member # 29269
posted 10-14-2006 06:42 PM
OK, substitute 'Christian' for 'Catholic'. And I'm not talking about individuals. I consider myself one of those individuals. I feel it is the organisation - not a generalisation, I'm talking about the Vatican - which is unacceptable - which means we have to have illogical dogmas rammed down our throats if we want to worship God without changing religion/denomination etc.
In terms of only using one article, it was because I read it and thought it was worth posting here for discussion. The vast majority of it is Biblical evidence and accepted official Church opinions anyway, even if they're not presented as quotes. I didn't think I wanted to present an argument and search out an article: I found an article and wanted to present an argument on it. I'm not sure I understand why this was a problem, logic_grrl. I don't mean to have a go, I'm simply confused. In terms of the word 'buggery', that would probably be a more obvious reference for UK readers come to think of it. It's fairly offensive here, although not to the point of being an obscenity. It's the equivalent of the US term 'sodomy' - because homosexuality was the nature of Sodom, a city so evil God destroyed it. Therefore homosexual people are presented as gravely evil. A very poor argument. Isn't there some kind of disclaimer in the New Testament about all that? Jesus never once spoke ill of homosexuality.
Member # 29206
posted 10-14-2006 11:26 PM
Just FYI? THere are a few Catholic churches, believe it or not, who support thier homosexual members and are trying to get the Vatican to change a few things. My aunt goes to one such church.
But even my church doesn't condemn homosexuals themselves. (It condemns the act of homosexual sex, but at least that's better than nothing.) You're talking about Vatican policy, however, and that is viewed - from their point of view- as irrefutable authority. It doesn't have to be from yours. When you get together enough individuals, you have a group. Groups can change things. ANd, honestly, how many Catholics nowadays think that the use of contraceptives is a sin? Even those that do are rarely stopped from using them. And the Vatican has rather graciously realized that they can do nothing about it, and so they proetend that it isn't happening. The Pope only has as much authority over you as you let him. Someday, I'm going to get out a spare Bible and a highlighter and do a little research about homosexuality references. I'll go over my This Is Our Faith book, too, (a vernacular version of the Catechism) and maybe even try to bring it up in youth group, or with Sister Carmen. I'll let you know the consensus when reasearch is complete.
Member # 11569
posted 10-14-2006 11:43 PM
I've mentioned this elsewhere, but homosexuality as we know it today is not even close to what's be proscribed against in the Old and New Testaments of the Bible. Sodom and Gomorrah is about the failure of the city to honour the hospitality code that was strong and prominent in the culture (it's highlighted just prior to its destruction by Abraham treating the messengers with food, and places of honour in his tent.) Paul in the New Testament is criticizing people who are adhering to pursuits of the body (he includes marrying in this list, though concedes that marrying is better than dallying with temple prostitutes) when it was obvious Jesus was returning any minute and people who are worshipping false gods through pagan ecstatic ritual.
Many folks like to simplify the references to the Bible to blanket condemnations of homosexuality, but in reality, there was a lot of cultural and social mores at the time that were built into the codices and laws. To avoid taking them into consideration does a big disservice. Joe, I've given you books and references before to help you with your conflict between what the Bible says, and what church dogma dictates. Have you looked into these at all? Infuriating as it might seem, perhaps reading about Catholic doctrine and sexuality might help - reading Pope John Paul II's Theology of the Body for example, to get the information straight from the horse's mouth, as it were. Similarly, if you're finding such an obvious and large disconnect between your current faith and your feelings on human rights, then considering another denomination or at the very least another church who hold views like not_a_hobgoblin's church does.
Member # 29206
posted 10-15-2006 12:16 AM
(As a small helpful note-addendum to wobblyheadedjane's advice: I go to a university parish. They tend to be a bit more open-minded, at least in the US of A.)