T O P I C R E V I E W
Member # 7307
posted 03-27-2002 05:47 PM
Here is a general question: The base reasons men and women's changing areas, showers, and the like are seperate is to basically prevent anyone from seeing you naked in a sexual light that you don't know, basically getting a free glimpse of "live porn" so to say. While the idea might be archaic and stupid if you really look at it, this inspires many boys/girls to in the right situations sneak a peak (like in camps). I can tell you if a guy catches a glimpse of a girl or vice versa coming out of the shower, it's a definite turn-on (and embasement to the seen party.)
While they say it doesn't effect them often, I would bank money if a lesbian or bi girl catches a glance of a good looking naked straight girl, she'll probably be turned on by it. My point is, is this not an infringement in a way of the seen girls rights? Not that I know what you could do about it.
(And yes I realize people see each other all the time in say nudists colonies, but everyone is accepting the fact there (and yes, people get aroused at them which is really akward for guys AND girls, an erection isn't half as bad as talking to a guy and starting to 'spring a leak') so I don't think it's really bothering them.
So are straight girls so wrong for not wanting to change in front of those that are attracted to them, the bottom line?
Member # 5375
posted 03-27-2002 06:30 PM
Human beings are not creatures driven purely by reaction to a stimulus. We can exert control over ourselves at all times and since we live in a society we are (and rightly so) expected to maintain that control at all times. Really, humans, regardless of sexual orientation, are not like the family dog who just can't help his attraction to legs.
And no, it's not a "definite turn-on" to see the opposite sex nude. Some people simply aren't attracted to the opposite sex. Also, many people are embarrassed to catch others in what they may feel is a private state. Making generalizations like that is impossible; one person cannot adequately speak for all humans.
Please show a little sensitivity and attention to actual facts when you post.
There is a time and a place for everything.
Member # 5822
posted 03-28-2002 01:54 PM
To be honest, I do find this post, like most of your others Echolar, a bit hurtful. When I'm getting changed for sports(I play a lot)I'm not thinking about the other girls getting dressed around me! I don't have time to! And what you're saying is that all lesbians seem to think that everyone is fair game? Any naked girl isn't just going to get me panting, I have a few requirements!!! And yes, I admit, a good looking girl getting dressed has caught my eye. But I don't oogle, that's wrong, I know that. But if someone haas a problem with me getting dressed near them, I suggest that they get the hell out, not me. I'm not looking 99.9999% of the time, they're just being paranoid. And I'm going to echo what ookuotoe said, try and be a little more sensitive to other posters. I have to endure hell every time P.E. class is on, because I'm kicked out of my class for a half hour while they're getting changed. I enter the room for my lunch and I'm told that I'm a pervert. And its because of the attitudes of people like you!
Member # 5538
posted 03-28-2002 04:32 PM
I actually feel uncomfortable looking at anyone unchange. I'm not even out so people wouldn't notice. I do not enjoy looking at unsuspecting people in the changing rooms.
I go to the changing room to change. There is no ulterior motive. I agree with the last two posts.
Member # 3
posted 03-28-2002 11:11 PM
Actually, to my understanding of history and this sort of convention, gender-segregated bathrooms and such were created for the physical safety of women, as well as out of general cultural standards of modesty. They are basically a very modern convention. And that convention may well contribute to the tittilation factor you describe the men you know experiencing, as a matter of fact, rather than decrease it, given what we know about cultures which don't use this sort of gender segregation or who don't hide their bodies.
As sexual assault with any woman as the perpetrator is rare (it exists, but it is very rare), and we aren't talking about actual sexual harassment, I don't see this as being a sexual issue. Especially since you know, when you want to gawk at someone of any gender, you can do so just about anywhere, and for most people, it is in situations OUTSIDE urinating and defacating that gawking tends to take place. I know bathrooms and locker rooms have never been a particularly arousing setting for me.
Not sure what "rights" are being infringed by anyone being looked at by another person in any context. Looking in public areas at anyone isn't criminal, it isn't harassment, and it isn't an invasion of privacy. None of us have any rights which protect us from being looked at or thought of, clothed or otherwise. If we did, everyone would be invading them constantly, especially people in locker rooms -- straight, gay or otherwise -- as people tend to look at others bodies for many reasons in passing in such scenarios, often out of simple curiousity.
As a parting note, being bisexual for 20 years of my life at this point, I can assure you that not every woman that exists is a woman I loook at or find appealing, and that I can see a parade of naked women and it may not do anything for me sexually in the slightest. I can say the same of seeing naked men. In fact, if you do some research into the history of arousal and pornography, you'll find that for the most part, more people over centuries have tended to be aroused by clothed people than by nudes.
Heather Corinna Editor and Founder, Scarleteen My epitaph should read: "She worked herself into this ground." -- Kay Bailey Hutchinson
[This message has been edited by Miz Scarlet (edited 03-28-2002).]
Member # 5822
posted 03-29-2002 02:34 PM
quote: Originally posted by Miz Scarlet: In fact, if you do some research into the history of arousal and pornography, you'll find that for the most part, more people over centuries have tended to be aroused by clothed people than by nudes.
Yeah, I agree, nakedness takes away the mystery.
Member # 7061
posted 04-02-2002 03:47 PM
It isn't wrong for straight girls not to want to be seen by bisexual or homosexual females. It's not wrong for straight girls to not want to be seen by males... It's not wrong for homosexuals to not want to be seen by whoever! It's everybody's personal right not to want to be looked at. It is their own personal space, and they have a right to it. It is NOT a turn-on (at least to me) to see half naked girls in the locker room. I am more embarrassed that people would see ME. In the locker room, I just get changed and make sure NOT to look at the other girls (I go to an all girls school). 1. I am not out of the closet and dont want to give myself away. 2. I generally DONT look at other people because its their right not to be seen, and a violation of their space whether they are gay or straight.
Member # 7347
posted 04-02-2002 06:10 PM
I, a queer chick, don't look at girls in the locker room any more than any straight girl. If I'm talking to some girl, even an attractive queer one, I don't stare at her chest. I'm not in a state of complete and utter titulation every time I walk into the locker room. I just get changed and read my book until the PE teacher calls us outside.
Last year the girls who had lockers around my friend and I would always be asking us if we were lesbians and were we a couple? Sometimes we'd say yes, sometimes we'd say no (although at the time she didn't know my sexual orientation and I still don't know hers and we are and always have been just friends), just depending how we felt. If it was just me I'd say "yeah, and you sooo don't turn me on, so don't bother covering yourself up", and the girls around us just relaxed and every now and then they'd act offended and be like "ooh, what? Am I not good enough for you? Or am I too good for you and you know it?" and we'd just kid around.
So...when I can tell that a straight girl is nervous about me I just jokingly tell her she's not my type, and that sort of just calms them down and everything is fine.
Member # 7361
posted 04-03-2002 08:30 PM
actually, today, a guy entered in the girl's changing room. he went into a cabin, and the only thing that was said about it was "wasn't he a boy?"
Member # 2297
posted 05-01-2002 05:13 AM
Personally, I'm not modest when it comes to changing, but I understand that other people may not want to see me "let it all hang out". I'm not really talking about the locker room context here (everyone is all worried about covering up in there anyway), but say when friends stay over after puberty.
I definately would agree with Slayer_gurl - lesbians are no more obsessed with sex than anyone else. I probably spend more time being jealous of peoples bodies in high school then I did lusting after them!
My main concern when I'm in a changeroom is to get out of there pronto - you never know how clean it is.
Member # 8045
posted 05-02-2002 07:44 PM
I find it rather amusing just how offended some people were by this topic. As if it were some form of "gay bashing". I think that Echolar has a good point. I've pondered this myself, actually. While I'm sure it is misleading to indicate that ALL queer people must be sexually aroused by seeing an attractive naked person of the same sex in the locker room atmosphere it's certainly nothing to get all in a huff over. As a young bisexual female I have no problem admitting that I, for one, do check out the nude chicks in the locker room. And I also have no problem admitting that they have every right not to feel comfortable with that. heh.
I'm not a lump.