T O P I C R E V I E W
Member # 50934
posted 02-02-2011 11:26 AM
I know that a lot of people believe that homosexuality is a sin. Sometimes I get worried that it is true. I get worried that God is yelling at me when I try to act on my lesbianism. Which is why I can't date nobody. I feel like I'm being punished.
I went to my cousin's christening at a catholic church. I wanted to pray to God, but I was worried about distracting him from the baptism. My councilor said that she believes that God can multitask. That does make sense. My mom tells me that it says it in the old testament. According to her, the old testament was written by men. She also said that according to the bible, slavery is permitted. Sometimes it makes me feel better, b/c slavery is illegal in this country today. But only temporarily. I get worried that I'm going to go to hell when I die b/c I lived the gay life. Last year, every night I would pray to God and apologize to him for my homosexuality and say that I promise to be straight and naturally have children. Then my mom started talking some sense into me and talked me into believing I can be who I am. In the new testament, Jesus said nothing about homosexuality but he said "you shall love everybody". Also my councilor agreed the fact that if God doesn't allow gay lives, that he would fix all the gay people and make 'em straight. And did he do that? No! My mom says that God loves all his children just the way we are. All of that only gives me temporary confidence. I'm worried that I am sinning and I'm wrong for it. I wish we could have evidence. In fact, if Jesus said something about homosexuality, I'd know for sure. My mom wants to look for a church for me that accepts lgbt. That way I feel more comfortable and accepted and not a sinner. Until then, how can I get this negative thought out of my head?
Member # 50053
posted 02-02-2011 11:44 AM
Well im not sure if im the right person to be posting a reply, but im a very religious person. I'd like to give you my insight on this subject.
I read the Bible, the Quran, the Torah, so on. I like to be open minded about religion, not just stuck on one religious view. I have multiple gay, lesbian, and bi friends. I in NO WAY see the way they are, as a sin. Yes, in religions it says that being that was is a sin and its wrong. But, some people in my opinion are born this way, and some come to the conclusion that they are just attracted to the same sex. I personally can't understand it fully because i dont have any want to be in an intimate relationship with another girl, but i don't put other people down for the things i dont understand. I see God as forgiving and loving. He DOES love all his children, and he made all of us the way we are. Even if being gay/bi is "wrong" God has no reason to punish you, because its simply the way you are. People are supposed to be good and love one another, and if you are a good person when you pass away, you will go to heaven. He will not judge you for something as simple as being gay. I know that religions also say that in heaven there will be no gay couples, etc. But that doesn't mean the gays all go to hell. God just may not allow those couples to be, or he will "fix" you and you will no longer be gay, etc. Either way, gays/lesbians/and bi people will not go to hell. They will be at peace with God. He will not punish you and he will not be angry. Its who you are! and thats perfectly fine. So, thats my view on this If i offended anyone by this post, please forgive me, i meant this in no offensive way, whatsoever.
Member # 29269
posted 02-06-2011 06:18 AM
Ste-Funnie, this is a great question, and I'm really happy for you that your mother and your counsellor have been trying to make you feel better about this. It's good to have supportive people around.
I think, the way I see it is that if the Christian God exists, from what I can make out he seems to be described as a loving, forgiving God. So even if homosexuality was a sin (and I don't think it is), I struggle to see him getting too worked up about it, and here's why. Due to its age, the Bible is getting harder and harder to interpret. It appears to condone slavery, for example. But, slavery was so common at the time that the best advice (which the Bible does give, to its credit) was to treat slaves well. Now, we have come to the conclusion as a society that slavery is wrong, and we ignore the relevant parts of the Bible. There's also shellfish, sex before marriage - even polyester technically goes against the Bible. On the sex before marriage question - at the time the Bible was written, a marriage (unfortunately) was a property transaction between two men. One man gave his property (his daughter) to another man, and she became the property called wife. It was imperative, too, that the woman in question was a virgin, due to social expectations of marriage. If the woman was not a virgin, she could not then get married (or not easily), and society might judge both her and her family. That was an awful system, and I'm really glad things have changed. However, within that system, heterosexual sex before marriage was relatively harmless for a man, but very harmful for a woman, and thus quite an irresponsible thing for a man to be part of. But now, thankfully, it's changed, and we ignore the stuff on sex before marriage. Because now it's not as socially harmful, and if not predicated on love, I think there's some sort of positive, nice emotion underlying consensual sex. And I see with homosexuality that basically, what we do is predicated in love, or "like" - if I want (as I sometimes do) to get a blow job from another man, then I really appreciate the man who does it, at the very least - even if there is no strong relationship there, say. And I think that even if homosexuality might be a sin, this Christian God seems to like things that are about making other people happy, and making myself happy, and plain old being awesome. When you give a really good blowjob, or eat someone out, and, what's more, when you really like it, I figure this God would be at least half-smiling.
Member # 50934
posted 02-06-2011 07:55 AM
The thing is, Pat, what Christians believe is that homosexuality isn't a sin but acting on it is a sin. "A man shall not sleep with a man" all b/c "he wants us to have children. For one thing there are straight couples who use condums, birth control, etc, and who aren't able to have kids. According to my school councilor's mom's priest, sex is designed for reproduction, not pleasure. Which is plain bogus.
I prayed to God on Friday, and I told him, "Look, God, I don't know if you are against gay life, but I can't help myself. I'm sorry that I wanna go to Pride for Youth, gay places, etc, but I can't be something I'm not." In other words, I have to act on it. Gay people are going to be gay. If you're gay, you do it. I can never live happily ever after with a man. I don't even wanna sleep with a man. I am attracted to women, so thats what makes me happy. When I prayed to him, I backed out of LIGALY, b/c I felt like I was going against God. Last year I used to pray to him and apologize to him for this. I apologize about a lot of things I don't need to. One thing is, if God was against the gay life, he would fix people and make everyone straight, b/c like I said, gay people are going to be gay, and if he didn't want that, he'd make everyone straight. And straight people are going to be straight.
Member # 50455
posted 02-06-2011 08:57 AM
That's actually a really narrow definition of what Christian's believe. Many Christian's are OK with same sex relationships, including official statements of affirmation on welcoming gay and lesbian people into full membership and leadership, including ordination to ministry, by the the Episcopal Church of North America, the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America, the Metropolitan Community Church, the United Church of Christ (congregationalists), and the Unitarian Universalist Association (not a Christian denomination but around 10% of our members consider themselves Christian). Additionally many other Christians are OK with same sex relationships even if they attend a church where that is not the official doctrine.
The Bible was not written in English, and much of what we have as a translation was imperfectly done. Greek and Aramaic, the original languages of the bible, were not understood as well when they were first translated as they are now, and many times a word with multiple meanings was translated to mean one thing. The Greek word “porneia” was translated into the English “fornication” when it actually is understood to have multiple meanings. Strict Biblical Literalism (that is, taking the Bible literally word for word) requires you to believe an awful lot of things like keeping slaves was OK and treating women like property was expected. There are a lot of things to consider with those statements, including the time period that the statements were made in and the dominant culture at the time. Christianity is not monolithic – that means that there is not one accepted stance on pretty much anything. There are many, many Christians who are just fine with gay and lesbian people. There are many ministers who are fine with gay and lesbian people. There are many entire denominations that actively reach out to gay and lesbian people for full membership in their congregations and ordination in their faith traditions (letting them become ministers). If you are interested in various views of gay and lesbian people from a Christian perspective I'd suggest checking out a United Church of Christ church in your area – there are multiple on Long Island. The ministers of these churches are usually more than happy to sit down with people and talk to them about their views, and the church's views, on homosexuality. And they certainly know a LOT more than I do!
Member # 29269
posted 02-06-2011 09:24 AM
Thanks for correcting me, CoatRack, I keep making the mistake of talking about Catholic beliefs and implying they're the same as Christian ones. I need to cut that out.
For what it's worth, I wasn't involved in the UCC while I was in Oregon, but the little I knew of them was that they were very tolerant and welcoming. The priest/vicar/reverend turned up to a few LGBT events on campus (for instance when we held a candlelight vigil for Tyler Clementi) to let the new generation of students know the UCC was a safe space (I think it may even have been a "Safe Space", in fact, which is awesome. ) [ 02-06-2011, 09:26 AM: Message edited by: patrickvienna ]
Member # 50934
posted 02-06-2011 10:34 AM
If they are okay with LGBT people, do they at least accept the LGBT actions? Such as marriage etc? enough that they'd have marriages in the church even if they're in a state where GLBT marriage is not permitted?
Member # 29269
posted 02-06-2011 11:19 AM
As far as I can make out from researching online, the UCC supports gay marriage. While the UCC does not have a formal marriage rite set up for gay couples, bishops in states where gay marriage is legal may bless such marriages at their discretion. So it seems to be up to the individual UCC.
Too, on the UCC website it says they did a lot to try to defeat Question 1 in Maine (which ended up repealing the right to gay marriage). So it seems they actively support LGBT issues. As for states where GLBT marriage is not permitted, it isn't super clear to me, but it looks like the UCC bless "commitment ceremonies" in those states. So that would be a religious ceremony that isn't legally recognized, I think. And that would be the maximum they'd be able to do by law, anyway, I think. But the good news is that it doesn't look like they're just "okay" with gay people, they seem to be positively enthusiastic about gay people.
Member # 50455
posted 02-06-2011 12:51 PM
I've yet to meet a UU or UCC minister who will not perform a same sex marriage/union/comittment ceremony. In states where same sex marriage is allowed they are happy to call it marriage. In states where it isn't it really depends on what the couple wants to call it.
Many UU and UCC ministers have stopped performing legal weddings for ALL couples until same sex couples have the right to marry all over the country. They will perform the religious aspect of the ceremony for any couple, but the couple has to go get their marriage license elsewhere. Additionally, many UU and UCC churches march in pride parades around the country and participate in "welcoming congregations" trainings about welcoming LGBTQ people into full membership of the church.
Member # 34135
posted 02-11-2011 10:30 PM
Ste-Funnie, I gotta creep in her and say I love the questions you're asking in this thread!