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Author Topic: I need help and I need to vent.
Ketrel
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Some background information. A girl I was in a relationship with, prior to it when she was with someone else, was very close with me. She would attempt to cuddle with me, and similar to that. As much as I wanted to enjoy it, it always made me very uncomfortable since she was with someone else at the time, and rarely reciprocated anything more than a hug. I just felt to uncomfortable doing so.

I've had a few friends and family members tell me that she was cheating on on this person with me, and that if I ever ended up in a relationship with her, I shouldn't trust her, because if she would cheat on him with me, I shouldn't expect her not to cheat on me as well.

Some more background information is she was in two relationships before being with me. I will refer to the guys as Person C, and Person F. I didn't know her when she was with Person C at all, and the above I mentioned all happened during the time she was with Person F.

She eventually broke up with Person F, and a few months later, entered a relationship with me. VERY shortly after that began, she was at a party with some of her friends from where she lived, and got very drunk and ended up sleeping with Person C. (Oral, and Intercourse, should that make any difference to what I'm saying here.) I've known about that since it happened, and she's been aware that I've known.

A little additional information is I've met Person C before that, and I'd say, he wasn't a mean person, and I wouldn't say he would have done something to hurt anyone else, but if it came down to something that he wanted, the thought of other people wouldn't even cross his mind.

I did my best to let those events not become an issue. I loved her and didn't want to sacrifice a relationship for one problem, especially not that early on.

For a few months after that, the relationship was mostly good, but after that I she began getting distant, and we nearly broke up. However, as it happened very near to finals week at college, we decided to wait until a few weeks into summer to decide anything in case it was just stress getting to us. During the summer I visited her on her day off from work a few times, and those went pretty well, but I started getting upset. I had been asking her from June for her to come up for a weekend so we could do something substantial. (Visiting her on her day off, after a two hour drive to see her didn't leave very much time to do much of anything.) She had a weekend off in July, but told me it was already called for by Person F. They had remained friends after their breakup, and it was the only time they could apparently hang out over the summer.

Later Person F threw a party (another weekend even), and she attended. Now I was invited too, but I would never have gone there. Some information there. When they were together, Person F was vicious to me. When it became known to everyone that I was in love with her, when it was her birthday, Person F decided he wanted to take her to a nice restaurant. Not that bad, right, it was a date, and they were in a relationship, right? Well he went out of his way to ask me to drive them there. That was just one of many things that happened, so needless to say, for his health, and my continued clean legal record, I try to avoid him, so I didn't go to his party. But still, that was another weekend, she had off and got claimed by something of his.

Fast forward to the fall. I'm still asking for just one weekend from her, but I'm visiting her every Tuesday after her classes. I find out she has a weekend off. I ask her if she would like to do something. She tells me, she would but it's going to be Person F's only weekend off from work for a long time and he's going to visit the college (he graduated the year before), so she promised him they would hang out that weekend. This is pretty much the last straw with me. I told myself if there's so much as a single problem from here on out, it's over.

Another thing to keep in mind is there's been various other things that have occurred unrelated to Person F that hurt me very much, and I had talked to her about them, and was always met with an apology that I knew was sincere though the events kept occurring.

A few weeks after that a friend threw a party. I went, and had a few drinks. I wasn't smashed or anything, but I was definitely to a point where I was unable to drive. She was there too, though she wasn't drinking anything more than a few. Well about two hours into the party, Person F shows up. It was a big "surprise" that only a few people knew about. This alone is a massive problem, because if I had known he was going to be there, I would NOT have gone to this party. She was one of the people who knew, and had kept it from me so I would go, and since I had drank there, I couldn't leave the party once he arrive. However, it got worse from there. From the moment he arrived, she completely ignored me. It would have been one thing if it was intentional, but it was clear from watching that it was not. I had enough at one point, so I went to a different room, so I could try to keep my composure. After about an hour of that, I went back to the main room of the party, and I nearly died inside, she was on the couch cuddling with Person F.

I resolved that I was going to end it the next day, but the next day she came over to my house and we were talking, she apologized a hundred times over, said that for the longest time she's been feeling very down and didn't like at all how she's been feeling recently, and wished she could feel like she did during her freshman year. I felt so bad, that I resolved that I was going to give her one final chance to make things work, but before I could get so far as to even verbalize this to her, she continued on to say she felt she needed to make a lot of changes in her life to get back to how she was feeling a few years ago. One of those changes was to break up with me, but she did promise it had nothing to do with Person F, not matter how it appeared.

Since then I've been a mess. A few things of significance have happened and I don't like any of them. First, it's been a few months since then, and we've still been in minor contact, she's changed nothing else in her life. The only thing that she's even made an attempt to change was dumping me, so to be honest, I think the whole story was a lie.

Second I've confronted her about everything I've mentioned above since and she holds that she never cheated on me. In fact, she went so far to say, that I'm saying she cheated on me, then it would mean she cheated on Person F, WITH me. I'm at a loss. First, with Person C, I don't care how much alcohol she had to drink that night, now matter where she intends to draw the line, she had every possible physical contact she has ever had with a person with him that night while in a relationship with someone else. That was cheating, by any definition. Then she was cuddling with Person F, someone she and everyone else at that party knows I absolutely hate, someone that I keep my distance from because I know that I ever in my life became physically violent with someone, it would be with him.

Either I completely misjudged her, and she is not the kind person I thought she was, or she's in some sort of denial and doesn't want to admit to herself that she cheated on two people she was in a relationship with.

Either way, I'm still completely a mess, she still wants to be friends, and I'm so messed up I can't react correctly no matter what happens. If she talks to me, or messages me, I get hurt and angry because of what she's done to me, and then at the audacity to continue talking to me like nothing's happened, but if she doesn't, I get hurt and angry because she's ignoring me, and leaving me to suffer alone after this.

I don't know what to do, I don't know how to react, and I don't have anyone I can turn to. Therapy is not an option for me, I don't have the finances for it, and I do not feel comfortable talking to any of my friends or family (or anyone I know personally) about this at all. I have nowhere to turn, and my only foreseeable option is to sit alone and do nothing and hope it passes, but it hasn't for two months, and it isn't getting better, and I feel like it's getting worse.

(What's worse, is I'm an excellent actor so nobody around me has any idea how much this is affecting me. I'm not just saying this, I know people who are extremely vocal and would not hesitate to say something to me if they had any clue what I was feeling.)

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Redskies
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Hi, Ketrel. I'm sorry to hear you're finding this tough.

One thing that strikes me is, from what you write, you don't seem to have had space away from this person and your involvement with her since the relationship ended. That's pretty much always a necessary thing after a break-up, to allow us to process it, take care of ourselves, and properly heal. Even in situtions where it was the healthiest, most caring, mutual breakup ever, and the people involved go on to be friends, it's still necessary to have time to adjust to not having that relationship and to grieve the end of the relationship, separately from each other. The person we were in a relationship with is pretty much never the right person for us to get support and comfort from about the end of that relationship.

How would you feel about taking some real space from her for a while, say several weeks, no contact at all?

When you say you don't feel comfortable talking to people about this, is that about you not feeling able to talk, or about them not seeming like people who it would be ok to share this with?

I think that you can't know whether she's changed, or is trying to change, anything else in her life. Some changes are very personal and slow, so maybe they're not obvious to other people. I do understand that it can hurt very much to think that we've not been told the truth around a break-up, but I think you just can't know on this one.

You say she still wants to be friends. What do you think she wants from that? What do you want from that, and is that really something that seems to be a positive and healthy thing in your life just now?

I hear you trying to figure out and understand her behaviour. It's understandable to want to figure out something that affected us deeply, to wonder what was really going on with someone we cared about. The thing is, though, there's a point where that keeps us too wrapped up in someone who we're no longer in a relationship with, and it can stand in the way of us concentrating on ourselves, what's good for us, and what we want in our own lives. So: what do you want, just for yourself?

--------------------
The kyriarchy usually assumes that I am the kind of woman of whom it would approve. I have a peculiar kind of fun showing it just how much I am not.

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Ketrel
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quote:
Originally posted by Redskies:
Hi, Ketrel. I'm sorry to hear you're finding this tough.

One thing that strikes me is, from what you write, you don't seem to have had space away from this person and your involvement with her since the relationship ended. That's pretty much always a necessary thing after a break-up, to allow us to process it, take care of ourselves, and properly heal. Even in situtions where it was the healthiest, most caring, mutual breakup ever, and the people involved go on to be friends, it's still necessary to have time to adjust to not having that relationship and to grieve the end of the relationship, separately from each other. The person we were in a relationship with is pretty much never the right person for us to get support and comfort from about the end of that relationship.

How would you feel about taking some real space from her for a while, say several weeks, no contact at all?

When you say you don't feel comfortable talking to people about this, is that about you not feeling able to talk, or about them not seeming like people who it would be ok to share this with?

I think that you can't know whether she's changed, or is trying to change, anything else in her life. Some changes are very personal and slow, so maybe they're not obvious to other people. I do understand that it can hurt very much to think that we've not been told the truth around a break-up, but I think you just can't know on this one.

You say she still wants to be friends. What do you think she wants from that? What do you want from that, and is that really something that seems to be a positive and healthy thing in your life just now?

I hear you trying to figure out and understand her behaviour. It's understandable to want to figure out something that affected us deeply, to wonder what was really going on with someone we cared about. The thing is, though, there's a point where that keeps us too wrapped up in someone who we're no longer in a relationship with, and it can stand in the way of us concentrating on ourselves, what's good for us, and what we want in our own lives. So: what do you want, just for yourself?

I haven't been attempting to get support from her. I'm saying I literally have nobody I can turn to for such, not that I intended or wanted to go to her for it.

As far as taking time apart, aside from when she wants to talk and texts or IMs me, there's been no contact. I frankly don't want to speak to her other than wishing I could get at least some sort of apology for the cheating (or at least an acknowledgement).

As far as being friends still, I don't give a damn what she wants from that. I don't want to be friends still. She hurt me too much for that.

As far as what I want, as I said, I honestly don't know. All I know is that what's happening now is NOT what I want.

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Ketrel
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Some time frame reference. The relationship ended over a month ago.
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September
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Since it has only been one month since the break-up, one thing to keep in mind is that, well, after a break-up there is pretty much always going to be a period of hurting and feeling confused. That sucks a whole lot, especially if you have no support system to speak of. But it's also pretty much par for the course.

One thing that may help here is if you limit your contact to your ex-girlfriend. Not contacting her is one thing, but since she does contact you and that makes you feel crappy, it may be time to ask her not to do that, at least for a while. It seems like it's clear that you are not going to get any explanations or apologies out of here, so you might as well get some space.

Another thing would be someone to vent to or help distract you. Do you want to talk about why you do not think you can ask your friends for support?

--------------------
-joey
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"The question is not who will let me, but who is going to stop me." -Ayn Rand

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Ketrel
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quote:
Originally posted by September:
Do you want to talk about why you do not think you can ask your friends for support?

Because I can't. It's not a debatable issue or something that can be solved. Anything about that is really just deflecting from the problem I am actually having right now.

[ 12-17-2011, 01:09 PM: Message edited by: Ketrel ]

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September
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Quite honestly, a complete lack of a support system, such as you seem to be experiencing, might well be contributing to the pain and confusion you are experiencing. Thus, I do not think that figuring out how to get some support would detract from the issue at hand.

However, it is obviously up to you to decide what you do and do not want to talk about here.

With all options for getting outside support (family and friends our counseling) off the table, though, it does get difficult for us to make any suggestions here.

One other thing that can help after a break-up is to take the opportunity to start something new in your life, or take up an old hobby that you have neglected during the relationship. That can distract you from the break-up and give you something positive to focus your energies on. Does that sound like something you might like to give a try?

--------------------
-joey
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Ketrel
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quote:
Originally posted by September:
Quite honestly, a complete lack of a support system, such as you seem to be experiencing, might well be contributing to the pain and confusion you are experiencing. Thus, I do not think that figuring out how to get some support would detract from the issue at hand.

However, it is obviously up to you to decide what you do and do not want to talk about here.

With all options for getting outside support (family and friends our counseling) off the table, though, it does get difficult for us to make any suggestions here.

One other thing that can help after a break-up is to take the opportunity to start something new in your life, or take up an old hobby that you have neglected during the relationship. That can distract you from the break-up and give you something positive to focus your energies on. Does that sound like something you might like to give a try?

I don't have any options like that available to me.

First off I guess I'll explain the previous issue more. My family is and always has been useless with anything like this. They are simply not people I can turn to for anything emotional. They're there for me otherwise. They can offer sympathy, but nothing more. And, frankly, I hate getting empty sympathy.

I have one friend I'm close enough to that I could have talked to about things of this magnitude. However, his girlfriend had cheated on him, and he since that day developed a philosophy where humans are polygamous and anything else is selfish and unnatural as a way of coping. He has since concluded that it is impossible to cheat since the very idea of an exclusive relationship is wrong and that the only reason he hasn't been with any additional people other than his girlfriend is that he hasn't found anyone of interest yet. (He's done this rather than face the fact that his girlfriend cheated on him. Me and all his other friends have all individually noticed this, and nobody wants to say anything to him about it since it's clearly how he has been able to cope.)

So yes, he's not exactly a person I can talk to for this particular subject matter, other problems, yes, but not this, so as I mentioned above, I don't have anyone I can talk to about this.

As far as hobbies, the thing was, my ex and I were close friends first sharing all of the same interests as far as hobbies. Everything about her was an addition, nothing was an exchange or a sacrifice. There's nothing I gave up that I can go back to. There's just something now, missing.

[ 12-20-2011, 04:33 PM: Message edited by: Ketrel ]

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Ketrel
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(I just want to add, separately from that post so it doesn't get lost in it, I don't think figuring out how to get support is what would detract from the issue, I just think talking about why I know not think that my friends and family are not viable options would do so.)
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Heather
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Hey, Ketrel. I'm late to all of this, but I'm wondering if you might be willing to do something for us.

If we could respond to you with exactly what you feel like you'd want to hear from us, what would that be?

I just feel like it's clear everyone feels a bit lost about how to help you out, and I'm wondering if your own wants might help make it more clear how we can help.

--------------------
Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Ketrel
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quote:
Originally posted by Heather:
Hey, Ketrel. I'm late to all of this, but I'm wondering if you might be willing to do something for us.

If we could respond to you with exactly what you feel like you'd want to hear from us, what would that be?

I just feel like it's clear everyone feels a bit lost about how to help you out, and I'm wondering if your own wants might help make it more clear how we can help.

I honestly don't know. I mean no offense when I say if I had any other place to turn, an anonymous message board wouldn't be the choice I'd make seeking answers, I'm just beside myself here. I have no clue what I want, no clue what to do. I might be depressed, but if I am, it's not clinical as each part I can trace back to a reason as a opposed to a general overall feeling.

I don't know what to do with myself, I feel too humiliated to even be around any of the friends (most of the ones I have) who were at the party where the second event occurred, I don't have anything positive anymore.

So, I didn't come here expecting anything, but to be honest, I was hoping though.

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Heather
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No worries about offending anyone.

I do think, based on all of this, that considering you may be suffering from depression is a wise consideration.

Would you be up to looking into that, just taking a first step? I know you say therapy isn't an option for you, but how about just having one consultation with a general healthcare provider or clinic to have them look into that with you?

--------------------
Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Ketrel
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I'm not opposed to considering depression, there's just some problems with it.

(I know this next part will sound contradictory)

I have a family history of it. However, as a result, all of us are very well aware of what it looks like and what the symptoms are.

I don't have any of the symptoms that would make it clinical depression rather than events causing me to be depressed (as in if events were to pick up, I'd be un-depressed)

I should add though, that there's no clinic around here, and as far as general healthcare, if you mean a normal physician, I went had to go to a physical before starting a temp job in November, (all these events happened in October, and this has been a constant feeling since) so what I'm feeling now, I was feeling then, so if it's something that would be diagnosable by a physician, it's not something I have sadly. (Sadly because if it was, it would be something pretty easily solvable I gather).

But, I have tried to self-diagnose (multiple times) as far as clinical depression go, the only symptoms from that list I seem to have is "feelings of guilt, worthlessness, or helplessness" and "persistent sad, anxious, or 'empty' feeling", and all of those are directly traced back to what I went through from that relationship and supposedly pretty standard after any breakup let alone a bad one (especially after being cheated on twice), which is a concrete cause.

As much as I wish it were depression, at least then there's anti-depressants I could go on to help, I know it's not. I don't have any of the other symptoms.

I'd be willing to go again to ask specifically about depression, but there's a caveat that I couldn't go until at least april, due to insurance reasons.

[ 12-22-2011, 08:17 PM: Message edited by: Ketrel ]

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Heather
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You do already know, yes, that the symptoms of the many kinds of depression vary quite a lot, yes? And that trying to self-diagnose within a family, especially a family with depression within it, isn't sound?

I ask those things because I don't know if you know or not. It sounds like you don't, but I don't want to assume.

When you got your physical, did you talk with the doctor about all of this? If not, I'd not assume that they looked into it in any way. And whether your depression is chemical or situational, if you are indeed depressed, I'd say it's something you'll want to investigate and have evaluated.

I'll be honest, I'm not sure you were cheated on twice here: the way that I read what you've written doesn't make that clear. I don't know what kind of agreements you had with this person and if they included cuddling/hugging or not (and if they did, personally, I'd suggest that is probably too big a fence when it comes to exclusivity agreements that are sound). I also don't know if you and she created a monogamy agreement when you first started dating: most people don't so soon. So, I understand that you feel betrayed, and am not questioning those feelings, but unless there's more to this, including agreements, than you've written here, I understand why she doesn't feel she cheated.

But what I certainly am seeing is a lot of attachment to this relationship, and a lot of weight put on it. I'm, obviously, seeing a big impact of all of this on you and some very intense feelings I'd bet are about a lot more than just this girl. I'm seeing some issues with boundaries. I'm seeing you clearly generally being very emotionally and socially isolated. And I'm seeing a lot of things that do look an awful lot like depression, even though I understand that from your view, they don't.

But here's what I want: I want you to be able to feel better, to not feel so stuck, to not keep feeling like you're kind of walking in mud, if you get me. I think to do that, you're going to need some help getting a handle on the bigger picture of all of this, which I really don't think is just about this relationship or this girl.

So: am I getting that you can't see any doctors at all until April? What if you didn't use insurance?

--------------------
Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Ketrel
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quote:
Originally posted by Heather:
You do already know, yes, that the symptoms of the many kinds of depression vary quite a lot, yes? And that trying to self-diagnose within a family, especially a family with depression within it, isn't sound?

I ask those things because I don't know if you know or not. It sounds like you don't, but I don't want to assume.

When you got your physical, did you talk with the doctor about all of this? If not, I'd not assume that they looked into it in any way. And whether your depression is chemical or situational, if you are indeed depressed, I'd say it's something you'll want to investigate and have evaluated.

I'll be honest, I'm not sure you were cheated on twice here: the way that I read what you've written doesn't make that clear. I don't know what kind of agreements you had with this person and if they included cuddling/hugging or not (and if they did, personally, I'd suggest that is probably too big a fence when it comes to exclusivity agreements that are sound). I also don't know if you and she created a monogamy agreement when you first started dating: most people don't so soon. So, I understand that you feel betrayed, and am not questioning those feelings, but unless there's more to this, including agreements, than you've written here, I understand why she doesn't feel she cheated.

But what I certainly am seeing is a lot of attachment to this relationship, and a lot of weight put on it. I'm, obviously, seeing a big impact of all of this on you and some very intense feelings I'd bet are about a lot more than just this girl. I'm seeing some issues with boundaries. I'm seeing you clearly generally being very emotionally and socially isolated. And I'm seeing a lot of things that do look an awful lot like depression, even though I understand that from your view, they don't.

But here's what I want: I want you to be able to feel better, to not feel so stuck, to not keep feeling like you're kind of walking in mud, if you get me. I think to do that, you're going to need some help getting a handle on the bigger picture of all of this, which I really don't think is just about this relationship or this girl.

So: am I getting that you can't see any doctors at all until April? What if you didn't use insurance?

It was understood to be an exclusive relationship by both parties. (And a big part of why the cuddling part was as bad as it was is because of WHO it was with, not the action itself. If you recall my earlier posts about the ex I was worried about her still having feels for, becoming roommates with, and ultimately ending up being unfaithful if that occurred with, well, it was him.)

As far as doctors, without insurance, I can't afford so much as a tongue depressor.

I understand that trying to self diagnose in my familiar background isn't quite so smart of an idea, but my financial situation doesn't leave very many options open to me.

But another thing, if my depressed state is completely non-clinical, I would NEVER consider medication as an option.

I know I'm addressing these points really out of order, but please don't detract from the cheating, I really don't think that's debatable. She claims the first time (with full intercourse) wasn't cheating either because she drank so much, but flat out denied any possibility that he took advantage of her because it was still her choice to do so.

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Ketrel
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I'll be completely honest, both online and offline, I've seen a significant gender bias when it comes to cheating.

When the person who's done the actions is female, the reaction is along the lines of what I'm seeing here. Perhaps the boundaries of the relationship weren't clearly defined, and perhaps the victim is being too harsh in calling it cheating, and perhaps the actions can't quite be classified as cheating.

When the person who's done the actions is male, the reaction is to talk about how much it hurts to be cheated on and how it's never a fun situation to be in. The question of the clearly defined boundaries is almost never brought up.

I'm done seeking help here. I've vented. It's done me no good. When I have the capability to see a doctor, I intend to do so, on the off chance it is clinical depression (caused by a chemical imbalance). If it's not, well, I don't think I'll ever recover from this, as I have nowhere to turn to for support and that's a situation I don't think will ever change.

I'm isolated not as a symptom of being depressed, but because I'm so damn humiliated because the second time she cheated on me, happened publicly in front of all of the friends, and I can't bear to face them anymore after that.

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Heather
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I'm very certain that I, personally don't have bias around gender here (likely in part because I unpack these things to do my job, but is also probably helped by the fact that I'm not heterosexual) and that I'd say the same thing were someone saying what they did about a male partner. In fact, I can think of plenty of times when we've had a woman here in a similar situation with a male partner and I have said the same sort of thing I have said to you.

Really, for me, this isn't about gender. It's about what, if any, agreements people made and if they honored those agreements or not. And I bring that up with everyone who posts here about things like this: asking what kind of agreement people made is pretty much the first question I always ask when someone hasn't expressed that from the start.

I disagree that you have nowhere to turn for support, be that here or elsewhere. My sense is you want a certain kind of reaction you're not getting, but in asking what that is to try and sort that out, it's clear that, for now, you're not sure what that is either. I'm sorry that's the case.

If you want to keep talking, we can certainly do that, but if not, we obviously understand that too and will simply wish you the best and hope that you do find what you're seeking so you can feel better soon.

[ 12-23-2011, 04:00 PM: Message edited by: Heather ]

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Ketrel
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I know I said I wasn't coming back, but I wasn't lying when I said I have nowhere else to turn.

I want to make a few things clear. First we were in an exclusive relationship. This was understood by both parties. Second, the first time she cheated on me, she had intercourse with another person. Don't insult me by trying to imply this was possibly not cheating. It's just hurtful.

I'm not doing any better. Worse now, since I found out the person she cheated on me with the second time (that apparently is debatable because it was just cuddling, which btw, was also clearly outside the bounds of our relationship, especially considering who it was), she's back with him. He was horrible to her, and to me. What's worse is she was lying to me for the better part of a year. She had been considering going back to him for that span of time. And while she swore up and down when she dumped me that he had nothing to do with that decision, she recently admitted that was a lie, and it was the sole reason.

When I found out that she was back with him, I told her, that after what he did to her, and to me, if she was with him, it's condoning that, and as such, I will have no contact with her as long as she's with him.

I feel physically sick from this constantly. The night I found out that she cheated on me the first time (the one with full intercourse), plays back in my head over and over whenever I have an idle moment.

I tried talking to another friend about it. While they did understand (having been in a similar situation), they did end up ceasing being her friend, which is something I would never want, and I feel horrible about. Knowing that can happen, I don't think I can bring myself to let any other of my friends know what happened as they're all mutual friends.

I'm pretty much pretending to be happy around the friends I can still bear to face (those that weren't there for the second event).

I can't keep this up much longer.

I'm still incredibly hurt by the notion that this potentially happened due to an unclearly defined relationship boundary, but I'm not kidding when I say I don't know where else to turn.

Seeing any doctor is not an option and with my financial situation will never be. I can't pretend that it might be in the future. I need help, I can't deal with this alone, and I don't have anywhere to turn.

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Robin Lee
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It sounds as if you feel a lot of hurt and shame around this and really are having trouble putting it behind you.

Whether you seek counselling is up to you, but just so you know there are free and low cost counselling options out there if that's something you think you would want to explore. With long-standing, pervasive feelings like this counselling can often hhelp. There is rarely just one magic thing someone can say or do to make it go away. Counselling is a process to help people work through things.


I'm trying to get a sense of what it is that would be helpful to you. Are you ttrying to put this behind you? Are you wanting to get rid of the bad feelings? Something else entirely?

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copper86
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I'm so sorry that you are experiencing this. I think you made the right decision in stopping contact with your ex-girlfriend for the moment. Ending contact often helps you focus on yourself and to take care of yourself first. I'm sure there are hotlines and other resources you could use if you ever wanted someone to talk to.

I understand how you feel about not wanting to talk to anyone about what's going on. I often hide things from my friends too because I think they'd judge me or not help me in the way I needed it. But is there someone you can at least confide in that you're going through a rough time? You don't have to give any specifics; and if they ask if it is about your ex, you can always say vague answers like, "Well, it's a range of things" or just tell them that you often feel like you have no one to t turn to when you feel bad in general - that your feeling bad doesn't necessarily have to do with/about anyone else. I hope that made sense!

I understand that putting on a happy face is important to you... I do that sometimes too. But I've learned over and over that if you keep something inside long enough, it is not healthy; and you can end up blowing up at the smallest thing.

I really hope that you feel better soon... I am thinking of you!

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Ketrel
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What I wasn't is to not feel like this. I want to stop reliving the nights she cheated on me every idle moment.

The two friends I can talk to about this both can't help. The first doesn't believe in monogamy on a philosophical level and thinks cheating is impossible as a result. The other is the friend who told me they were back together without realizing I didn't already know. I am doing my best but having a really hard time separating her from that information.

There is no way I can ask for help from anyone else without telling them why. I already saw her lose one friend after they found out when I turned to them for help. I cannot risk that happening again if I ask another.

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Robin Lee
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Nodding...Are you still in touch with your ex at all?

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Ketrel
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quote:
Originally posted by Robin Lee:
Nodding...Are you still in touch with your ex at all?

When I told her, if she was with him, it was condoning what he did to her and to me, and I wouldn't have any contact with her so long as she was with him, I meant it.

I removed her as a friend on facebook, and cut contact with her in every way.

Telling her was the hardest thing I've ever had to say, and maintaining it is constant hell, but no, since then, I have had no contact with her at all.

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Robin Lee
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You really miss her. You also feel betrayed by her and by her current boyfriend. Those are pretty heavy feelings.

The difficult part of breakups is that there are rarely solutions that will make everyone 100% happy. You really care about your ex-girlfriend and wish that things could be different. But they can't and that's weighing on you.

What needs to happen (could be an actual thing, or a thought, or a wish, or anything) for you to be able to begin to let her go?

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Ketrel
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What needs to happen is I need to be able to have more than an hour of idle thought where the first night she cheated on my doesn't play back in my head. It's vivid, and I recall it in perfect detail. It's horrible, and I can't stop it from happening.

It occurred almost 2 years ago, and I can't stop reliving it. It was the worst night of my life, I just want it to stop.

For what it's worth, I don't feel betrayed by the person she's with in the least. He's intentionally hurtful. There's many words I would use to describe him, but most if not all would probably get me banned here. I can't feel betrayed by him, when he's never for a moment acted out of character. He's a manipulator, and a liar.

For example, she told me she found a note in her bag that said "F*** You, Bi***" and was signed by me. Well for starters, he had called her a b**** at one point when they were together the first time. I saw how much it had hurt her when he did. From that moment on, I dropped that word from my vocabulary. Short story is, I didn't write that note. Somebody else did and signed my name.

I'm almost positive it was the person she's with now and the fact that she found it after dumping me was just lucky timing.

Anyway, while I might care about her, I can't afford to miss her. I was put through hell for close to a year before she dumped me. I was trying my best to make it work when she had no intention of it. If I miss her, then I miss that. I can't let myself miss her.


What I want more than anything else is to forget that first night she cheated. I don't want to remember that. It's hellish and I feel physically sick every time I relive that as much as I did the first time. I wish though, that I could forget her too.

[ 05-29-2012, 07:25 PM: Message edited by: Ketrel ]

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Ketrel
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And now it's hitting me like a ton of bricks. I'm never going to talk to her again, I'm never going to see her again.

I am really beside myself here. I don't know how to deal with this.

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September
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Let's try something else for a minute.

Can you maybe try and explore WHY it is that her cheating on you bothered you so much?

I mean, obviously, being cheated on tends to be a very hurtful thing and something that can affect us deeply (and believe me, I know, I've been there).

However, how we feel about it and why is also something that can be influenced to varying degrees by the context of the situation. And if you are saying that you are still crippled by the thought of the situation two years later, it makes me think that there is more to it than the act of cheating itself.

How secure did you feel in your relationship and with your partner at that point?
What about the friends who saw? Did you feel very comfortable and secure with them?
What do you feel now when you think about it? Can you be specific in what kind of feeling it is?
Had you ever been betrayed by a friend/partner/relative before (not necessarily by cheating, I mean betrayal in general)? How did that go?

[ 05-30-2012, 03:47 AM: Message edited by: September ]

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Ketrel
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quote:
Originally posted by September:
Let's try something else for a minute.

Can you maybe try and explore WHY it is that her cheating on you bothered you so much?

I mean, obviously, being cheated on tends to be a very hurtful thing and something that can affect us deeply (and believe me, I know, I've been there).

However, how we feel about it and why is also something that can be influenced to varying degrees by the context of the situation. And if you are saying that you are still crippled by the thought of the situation two years later, it makes me think that there is more to it than the act of cheating itself.

How secure did you feel in your relationship and with your partner at that point?
What about the friends who saw? Did you feel very comfortable and secure with them?
What do you feel now when you think about it? Can you be specific in what kind of feeling it is?
Had you ever been betrayed by a friend/partner/relative before (not necessarily by cheating, I mean betrayal in general)? How did that go?

My answers to most of this depend on whether you mean the first time or the second time.

But I can answer the last part. She was not only the first person I was ever in a relationship with, but the first person I had ever even considered being in one with.

[ 05-30-2012, 07:08 AM: Message edited by: Ketrel ]

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September
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You stated earlier that the first time is the one that really haunts, so let's start there.

As for the last question, again, I am asking about any sort of action by someone you were close to that left you feeling betrayed. It is very common for our minds to make connections between situations, and for one situation to trigger memories of another. So it is entirely possible that part of the reason why this is so difficult for you is because being cheated on triggered memories of another (or several other) situations where you also felt betrayed. So you're not just feeling the upset of this specific situations, but also of other situations, all at once.

[ 05-30-2012, 07:18 AM: Message edited by: September ]

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Ketrel
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edit: double post

[ 05-30-2012, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: Ketrel ]

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Ketrel
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No, there was never anything else.
I don't have anything else that stands out, and if there is and I can't recall, I wish I could do the same with this.

This hurts so much because I was completely in love with her for over a year before we began a relationship as she was with someone else who was progressively being more and more of an *** before she finally had enough. She had feelings for both of us, but I was five minutes late to when I had gone to ask her out and he did first.

It was only after he was too much of an *** to her and even worse to me finally that she broke up with him. It was a few months after that when we began our relationship and shortly after that when she slept with her first ex.

Then after a year is when I walked into the room to find her draped over the other ex, who I mentioned above, and the day after that when she dumped me but swore it had nothing to do with him. Which, by the way, when I confronted her about being back with him, she admitted was something she was considering for close to a year before dumping me and lied when she said it had nothing to do with it as it was the sole reason.

As far as the friends who witnessed the second one, it's nothing to do with them. It's that it's humiliating and most of then think I'm over reacting since only two people know about the first time.

And as I said before, one is no help there and the other is the one who told me without realizing I didn't know that she was back with the ex that was horrible to me. I'm doing my best, but having a very hard time to not associate her with the information since she was only trying to help, especially since she's been cheated on and has been through this exact thing.

[ 05-30-2012, 02:48 PM: Message edited by: Ketrel ]

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Heather
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I'm going to see if trying a different tactic helps. (It might not, but it might, so I figure, what the heck.)

Do you feel like it's her you're more angry/upset with, yourself, or is it pretty even?

On that same note, do you feel like her choices and actions were really about her, really about you (as in, if you had been better/more loveable/whatever, things would have gone differently), or both?

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Ketrel
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quote:
Originally posted by Heather:
I'm going to see if trying a different tactic helps. (It might not, but it might, so I figure, what the heck.)

Do you feel like it's her you're more angry/upset with, yourself, or is it pretty even?

On that same note, do you feel like her choices and actions were really about her, really about you (as in, if you had been better/more loveable/whatever, things would have gone differently), or both?

I want to be angry, but I can't, it hurts too much. I just really want to know what if anything I could've done to prevent this. If it was karma or something for something I don't remember doing.
And then I want to forget it. I don't want to remember any of it.

The first event, I don't know. I still can't understand it. Not even a little. She was drunk yes, but she made the decision to leave one house and go to another after her friends there stopped her when it was oral sex, and then at the other location, moved on to intercourse. That's when having no clue about any of this, I got the text "She's ****ing <person>" that pretty much shattered me. I felt like I literally broke when I read that.

The second, I don't know what I could've done. For the 6 months prior, I was trying desperately to get her to do anything with me on a day off, but every one she had somehow involved him. Each one had a very logical reason as to why. Most turned out to be lies. What I do feel is if I tried any harder, everything would've happened the same, but sooner.

I really don't know [Frown]

[ 05-30-2012, 06:58 PM: Message edited by: Ketrel ]

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Heather
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When you say you want to know if you could have done anything to prevent this, or if this was about your karma, what I hear is you putting blame on yourself.

There's obviously a lot of background and history here, but really, what I'm seeing is that she made the choices she made (I'm setting aside whatever happened when she was drunk right now, because I don't know if that was something she could have consented to, etc.), and they were about her, not you.

In fact, if this all started with her being affectionate with you in a way that you didn't think was appropriate when she was with someone else, I think that makes it all the more clear this was about her.

I mean, sure, for future reference, if you experience someone doing something while in a relationship you think isn't sound to do, you can probably figure that's how they'll be in their relationships, and maybe next time not choose to date that person. It also sounds like she had a history of unhealthy relationships, so you could know moving forward that often someone who has is going to need a good deal of time to learn to have healthy ones, and if that process isn't something you want to risk or deal with, you totally get to choose to opt out.

But that still doesn't make you at fault for someone else's behaviour, or mean you could have prevented this.

And I think that when you said this: "What I do feel is if I tried any harder, everything would've happened the same, but sooner." That might actually be a sound gut feeling to hang on to in terms of letting go of some of how you're feeling where you seem to be putting a lot of this on yourself.

Forgetting heartbreak isn't really something we can make ourselves, do. I mean, I'll tell you as a person getting older that we certainly tend to forget a lot of it, at least in the way it hurts so bad, over time, and time will tend to do that, but that probably won't happen soon.

What you've got to do for now is figure out what you really need to heal from all of this and move yourself forward so you can know what you know and feel what you fee, but have all of that be manageable.

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Ketrel
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quote:
Originally posted by Heather:
When you say you want to know if you could have done anything to prevent this, or if this was about your karma, what I hear is you putting blame on yourself.

There's obviously a lot of background and history here, but really, what I'm seeing is that she made the choices she made (I'm setting aside whatever happened when she was drunk right now, because I don't know if that was something she could have consented to, etc.), and they were about her, not you.

In fact, if this all started with her being affectionate with you in a way that you didn't think was appropriate when she was with someone else, I think that makes it all the more clear this was about her.

I mean, sure, for future reference, if you experience someone doing something while in a relationship you think isn't sound to do, you can probably figure that's how they'll be in their relationships, and maybe next time not choose to date that person. It also sounds like she had a history of unhealthy relationships, so you could know moving forward that often someone who has is going to need a good deal of time to learn to have healthy ones, and if that process isn't something you want to risk or deal with, you totally get to choose to opt out.

But that still doesn't make you at fault for someone else's behaviour, or mean you could have prevented this.

And I think that when you said this: "What I do feel is if I tried any harder, everything would've happened the same, but sooner." That might actually be a sound gut feeling to hang on to in terms of letting go of some of how you're feeling where you seem to be putting a lot of this on yourself.

Forgetting heartbreak isn't really something we can make ourselves, do. I mean, I'll tell you as a person getting older that we certainly tend to forget a lot of it, at least in the way it hurts so bad, over time, and time will tend to do that, but that probably won't happen soon.

What you've got to do for now is figure out what you really need to heal from all of this and move yourself forward so you can know what you know and feel what you fee, but have all of that be manageable.

Even if I could force myself to believe any of that, I have no idea what will help me heal. I can't stop reliving the first night, and nothing has gotten better since the relationship ended in October. I've made no progress towards feeling better.

What's worse is I know I'll never be able to trust anyone enough for a relationship ever again. At the very least, if I was able to get to a point where I'd even be willing to try, I'd be suspicious of everything. I could never subject anyone to that, it would be cruel.

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