posted
This is a bit of a complicated one... My grandfather (father's father) died on monday. He wasn't particularly close to me. He rarely made me feel he cared about me, and he was always aweful to my father. Even though I deeply resent my father, I recognize that he's a very good son, always looking out for my grandparents and bending over backwards for them. Because of this, I never liked it that my grandfather never thought he was good enough and would constantly put him down. Think Scrooge and his nephew. Exactly like that, except in this story, Scrooge never changed heart. Needless to say, I can't really feel very sad about his death, though I'm not completely indifferent about it. When I asked my father how he felt about the whole thing, he answered "...I feel tired; I feel a little sad... and I feel relieved". I really felt for him when he said that.
I found it incredible though, that even though my grandfather had abused him his whole life, my father was still able to forgive him and cry for him. Really, the only moment I felt like crying was when he went up in front of the whole church and said a eulogy. It's in these moments when I see my father is, after all a human being. Underneath the thing that abused me is someone who is forgiving and caring. And for the first time ever, I saw him there crying his heart out and I said "maybe things can get better." Today we have another little service for my grandfather, and I actually told my dad I'd treat him to an ice cream because I wanted to hear him out.
And then after the funeral I came home and felt angry. I think it was because I still can't forgive him for molesting me. Maybe I'll be able to see him once in a while now, but it's hard for me to believe that someday, after everything that's happened, I'll be able to say that I love him and mean it. How do you do it? Has anyone ever had to see their abuser in this way again?
Then I feel completely alone, because my mother tells me that it's about time I stop feeling bad, that I can't stay stuck like this forever (it's been 3 months since I started getting flashbacks). She makes me feel aweful, because she says basically that it's my fault I'm like this, because I'm the one that "chooses" to think about those things, and that I should just get over them. I really don't think she understands the gravity of the situation. I told all this to the psycologist, but I think she seemed to agree with my mother that it all depends on "how long I want to feel bad"...God, do I really choose to think of these things? I don't think so... And then I get even angrier because I think it's completely illogical that she just found out her ex husband sexually abused her daughter for most of her life, and she still encourages her daughter to see him? That she still just rolls her eyes and tells her to stop feeling uncomfortable with physical contact because that happened a long time ago? How can she do it?! My psychologist just says "we all forgive at different rates, and we must respect the rates of other people". Yesterday she told my dad that I'm taking dance lessons, something I didn't want her to do. She asked me why I didn't want to and I said that I don't trust him, and he's the one who made me lose my confidence dancing in the first place. She yelled at me and told me to just get over it. She makes me feel like such a burden to her. I've talked to her a bit about it, and she just rolls her eyes. Hopefully, I'll be able to use the psychologist to get across to her.
All this leaves me feeling bad about myself because I can't forgive and be a "good" person, and then I feel weak because I think like that, because I know how badly this whole mess has made me feel. I constantly think of harming myself; "just one time, one time won't hurt". My boyfriend knows and has begged me not to, saying "You know that it's not going to be just once if you start that up again...". He's probably right about that one...
I guess I just want to hear if people think my mother is right, that I really should just get on with my life, that it's about time I do. Or maybe, she's wrong, and despite what she thinks, I have the right and reason to be depressed right now, that it's completely understandable that I can't just forgive and forget right now... I still am going out with my father tonight, because it's something I decided on my own to do, but I can't say all is forgiven and forgotten. I hope that doesn't make me a hard head.
-------------------- "Love does not make itself in the desire for copulation, but in the desire for shared sleep." - The Unbearable Lightness of Being, Milan Kundera Posts: 410 | From: Dallas, TX | Registered: Dec 2005
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Nailo, what you're dealing with is SO, so hard. I've been in a similar spot myself, and even with my situation being less difficult (by virtue of the direct abuse being only sometimes physical, but primarily verbal, and when it was sexual, only in the verbal respect AND via a family member I was not related to by blood), it was never, ever easy. Still isn't.
You are not a bad person for not forgiving your father.
And, I'd posit that it's also entirely possible that some of YOUR father forgiving HIS father -- if he actually has -- was also your father projecting that HE would really like to be forgiven; was his own guilt manifest.
Your mother very CLEARLY does not understand what it is to be molested, especially by a parent. In fact, I'm alarmed at the extend that she doesn't get it. Of course, all of what she's saying to you may also be HER projections: she wants YOU to be more forgiving so SHE feels less guilty and responsible. From the sounds of things, her concern is less with you than with herself and your father right now, and that's terribly unfair for her to put on you.
I don't think your mother is right.
I, by all means, think you shouldn't ever let an abuser keep you from your life: I think that to the degree you can, you SHOULD move on, or be taking the steps to get there, and it sounds like that's exactly what you're doing. But it's vital that you do that for yourself, not to make someone else feel less guilty. And that doesn't have to mean forgiveness (and goodness knows, forgetting is just crazytalk: no one can forget abuse) until you feel it: if you never feel it, that is also 100% okay and 100% valid.
Just healing YOURSELF is a long, long process. And that'd be my very first concern, and I'd sure hope it'd be everyone elses. The injured party here isn't your Dad or your Mom, it's you.
(One more thing? Some of the relief your Dad felt may have been because the person who abused HIM is gone. That's pretty normative when an abuser dies, but I doubt he would have shared that with you had he felt that way.)
quote:Maybe I'll be able to see him once in a while now, but it's hard for me to believe that someday, after everything that's happened, I'll be able to say that I love him and mean it. How do you do it? Has anyone ever had to see their abuser in this way again?
I never loved my primary abuser in the first place. The only time I had to run into him years later, was by surprise, and I yelled at him in a long stream in the front of a grocery store. "I love you" was not any part of my invective.
But I've had to deal with this with people who enabled the abuse. With one, no, I COULD never say or feel "I love you" again. With another (and sorry to be vague -- I'm a person with a lot of public visibility so I have to tiptoe a little)...well, it's been a slow, slow process, that even at over 20 years past, I would NOT say is resolved, despite work being done on all parts -- including therapy work BY that person, FOR themselves, and admissions of guilt TO me -- at various times to try and get there. I can say I love that person, I can even understand some of why what was allowed to happen was, and there are some things I forgive, but others I do not, and likely won't ever be able to, and you know, that's okay.
We don't owe people who abuse us or put us in harm's way ANYTHING. That's a tricky thing to reconcile when they're family, but part of being family is supposed to be keeping your family OUT of harm's way. I could go on about this stuff for an age.
Point is, it's not your job to make them feel better. It's not your job to try and forget something you will never be able to so that THEY can hope THEY can forget they let it happen to you or did it to you. It's your job to heal, at your own pace, so that you can get to your own ground zero, establish your own life and get to the place where you can even decide what you want to do in that regard. To suggest that that needs to happen now is pretty whack: it takes a long time to heal from that abuse, and then it also takes time to be able to live a little and suss out how you feel about everything once you've gotten to the place where you are healing.
Your therapist is right: what's your pace is your pace, and those who care for you need to let you have that. I hope you can talk to her about all of this too, and hopefully she can help to give you some tools to cope with what your mother is lobbing at you, and some things you can say. It might also be helpful to have her talk to your Mom directly.
(I'm all weepy now, too. Not a guilt trip -- please, no! -- rather, point is that stuff like this, it's so hard. I know how hard it is, and it's a heartbreaker to have anyone not see that. But if reading something over 20 years past the end of my abuse can make me tear up -- some in sadness, some in anger -- I'm hoping it gives you the message that the expectation that you'd be all done with your process this early in the game is just ludicrous. Healing from things like this is lifelong: don't let anyone rush you, girl.)
Hang in there, Nailo. Don't let any of this make you doubt you're good people: even a relative stranger knows you are.
I'll be around more tomorrow if you want to talk more about this, but I just wanted to be sure and touch base before day's end so you didn't feel alone. And you're not: I have another close friend who survived molestation from a parent, a woman closer to my age, and again, many years further past this than you are, her family brings her right back to stuff like this a lot, too. But it's not about her, just like it's not about you: it's about them, wanting you to effectively do THEIR work for them, to make THEM feel better about what they did or did not do.
And that's not your job: YOUR healing is your job. They need to work their own stuff out themselves first and actually be accountable to you first: that's far more important than your forgiving them, and until they do that? Far as I'm concerned, you'd have no REASON to forgive.
[ 04-27-2006, 09:14 PM: Message edited by: Miz Scarlet ]
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me • Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63426 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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While my first abuser (or any of the others) wasn't a family member, he was a close family friend and my mother reacts to my problems much the same way yours does. At first she denied it and told me I was making it up. By the time she finally accepted that I was telling the truth, six years had passed and she decided that, even if it had happened, I should be 'over it' by now. She told me that, whether or not I let it affect my life still is my choice and that if I truly wanted to put it behind me, I'd just do so.
Thanks to a wonderful counselor who did a lot of good things for me, I learned that my mothers behaviour most likely stems from her feelings of guilt for not having noticed what was happening at the time and not having done anything to stop it. I have never spoken to her about it directly, asking her why she does not support me (I fear she would not be honest with me and I don't have the strength at this point to discuss this with her from every angle) but even just thinking that this might be her motivation makes it easier for me to bear.
I don't let her opinion have any effect on my healing process, though. I am doing this at my own pace, in my own way, and that's the only way I can do this.
I have no advice on how to deal with your father, specifically, as I've had the luck of always being able to avoid the abuser afterwards and I honestly can't even imagine having to deal with any of them in the way you do. From the sounds of it, you're doing as good as anyone could, given the situation. I wish you the best of luck!!
-------------------- -joey Scarleteen Volunteer
"The question is not who will let me, but who is going to stop me." -Ayn Rand Posts: 8424 | From: Cologne, Germany | Registered: Sep 2005
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Nailo, I wish I could reach out and hug you right now!
Although I haven't exactly been in your situation, (I was sexually abused but not by a relative and I don't have to see him at all, unless it is by accident) I can somewhat feel your pain.
I just wanted to wish you the best of luck with this. I know it is hard for me, being raped, but I couldn't imagine how hard this must be for you.
-------------------- And I say thank you for the scars And the guilt and the pain Every tear I've never cried Has sealed your fate. Did you take me for a fool or were you just too blind to see that every effort made has failed and there is no destroying me? Atreyu Posts: 366 | From: West Virginia | Registered: Dec 2005
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Thank you all so much :)I'm all teary now too, seeing that people care about what's happened to me in this way. Just a little update, so you can know: After everything I've said before, I actually did go to my grandfather's rosary. And now I feel completely stupid, because he let me down yet again, and this time I actually felt things could get better. He got to my grandmother's house stinking drunk. He was even slurring when he was praying. He grabbed me and tried kissing the back of my neck twice in front of everyone. As a reflex, I just shrunk away and practically begged him not to. All he said was "what's wrong with you, you idiot?! Can't I carress you?" All the time calling me by the pet name he has for his girlfriend. He refused to call me by my name, and would just make fun of me if I would ask him to. Then he was telling me that I HAVE TO go on saturday or sunday to play something on the piano. I said first of all, I can't take my piano, second I don't have a keyboard, third if I did I don't like the sound of classical music on a keyboard, fourth I can't go over the weekend. He just said "what is this c**p? You have to come over the weekend because I won't be here on monday! You NEED to get a keyboard". And he kept going and going and going, just being completely non caring and totalitarian. I really feel aweful, because I feel that I'm such an idiot, I should have known something like this was going to happen.
I got home and I didn't really want to tell my mother about it because since nothing drastic had happened, I was afraid she was just going to blow it off. But it's obvious when he's drunk. She came into my room and I told her I don't want to see him ever again, not even for his birthday, and she said she completely understood and agreed. I started screaming (hadn't been that histerical in a while) and then I told her everything; how I feel I can't trust her, how she puts me down. She said that this is very hard for her too, and that she thought that seeing my dad every once in a while would be the best thing to do so I can try and forgive him because otherwise I'll suffer. Now she sees that's not going to help, and she's very sorry, just that sometimes she doesn't know what to do. I just told her to please not to raise her voice or roll her eyes at me when I talk of some sort of repercussion. And if I told her that I don't want to tell my father something because I don't trust him, to realize why that is and respect my decision. We're ok now, at least.
As for my father, I was over at my boyfriend's today and he called me to ask me if I had prepared anything for the weekend yet, and I made up the excuse that I couldn't hear him. So my mother called him and told him that I'm not going, and he got furious, saying that it's my obligation to go, that she should force me. Fortunately, she said no. He said that if I didn't go, he was going to show up to my boyfriend's house and make a scene.
Mother told me that if need be, I should stay over there (his house is like a fortress). My dad called us over there and talked to my boyfriend. Again, he said that I have to "grow up" and go and that he was going over there. My boyfriend said that to see him or not was entirely my decision, and he wasn't going to force me to do anything. My mother called back, saying he called back to say that if I don't go he'll "make our lives miserable".
My boyfriend called the cops right away to make sure they were on alert and told everyone in the house not to open the gate. I got the shock of my life when I caught him in his father's room with a gun in his hand. He saw me, hugged me and said "I have no idea what he might do to you, me, or my brother. If he tries to do something, I'll shoot him". I always say I want to kill him, but it's been the most shocking thing in the world to see my boyfriend thinking of shooting my father. To boot, his parents weren't there. We called them up, and his father said that I should go home, because he didn't want his family involved. My boyfriend almost started crying because I had said that I wanted to stay because I felt safe there, and he said he was so sorry that I couldn't stay.So my mother picked me up, and he called again, but as usual, he's all bark and no bite. I asked my boyfriend when I got here to tell me the truth, and answer me if he would have really killed him. He answered that if he directly threatened us and needed to defend us or himself, he would have. Fortunately, it didn't get to that, and like I said, his house is a mini fortress, it would be hard for a 215 lb man to get into it even if he wanted to.
We're going to talk to my godfather grandfather and tell them what's going on so they can try and knock some sense into my father. My godfather's a lawyer and my grandfather's an ex FBI agent. They're both people who my father has a minimum level of respect for. We also want to know what he could possibly do to "make our lives miserable" like he said (though he probably just said that to intimidate us). He probably didn't even want me to go for him, but for his reputation. If I don't go, people will ask why, and he'll have to answer. Enough is enough. I don't want to see him ever again. If he wants to do something, I can sue him and I'll win hands down. And best of all,I know I'm not alone and I have many witnesses.
-------------------- "Love does not make itself in the desire for copulation, but in the desire for shared sleep." - The Unbearable Lightness of Being, Milan Kundera Posts: 410 | From: Dallas, TX | Registered: Dec 2005
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Oh my goodness, Nailo. I really am at a loss of what to say.
Your father has proved once again that he's a controlling, nasty scumbag. If you choose to never see him or talk to him again, I would be entirely behind that.
I'm happy that your mother is in less denial than before, and actually acknowledges that what happened to you was, is, and will be VERY real. Work on that communication.. I really hope that she can come to be a good source of support.
What else to say, my dear? Your life seems to be messier than a soap opera right about now. All I can say is that I hope you can continue to find ways to cope and heal yourself, and that things go a HELL of a lot better for you.
And rest assured, we all do care for you. We're all too glad to lend you an ear whenever you need somebody to listen, and we all hope for the best. Hugs.
Posts: 4636 | From: USA/Northern Europe | Registered: Oct 2005
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-------------------- And I say thank you for the scars And the guilt and the pain Every tear I've never cried Has sealed your fate. Did you take me for a fool or were you just too blind to see that every effort made has failed and there is no destroying me? Atreyu Posts: 366 | From: West Virginia | Registered: Dec 2005
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