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Author Topic: Companies that contribute to pro-life groups
Gumdrop Girl
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If you'd like to blacklist a company for contributing money to pro-life groups, post them here (with evidence, please).

If it's important to you to avoid businesses whose revenues go to causes you don't support, then refer as needed.

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Heather
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Ultimately, the term "antichoice" is a more accurate than "pro-life." In other words, companies which stand counter to a woman's right to ANY of her viable reproductive choices: parenting, adoption, abortion.

This, FYI, is an excellent simple reference to the most prevalent antichoice organizations: http://www.plannedparenthood.org/pp2/portal/files/portal/medicalinfo/abortion/fact-040901-anti-choice-profiles.xml

Bear in mind that this stuff is tricky. VERY few businesses, per se, are going to be so foolish as to give their profits FROM the business directly to some of these orgs, especially since several of them engage in violence or unlawful activity.

BUT, what you often find instead are the company owners using the wealth they have gained FROM the business -- its profits -- to do so.

I think from a practical standpoint, it's safe to connect those dots: when you give your money to a company, some of it goes to the owener, CEO, what have you, and if they're giving some of that to these orgs...well, there you go.

So, per another thread, Curves is on the blacklist.

The founder of Domino's Pizza also supports antichoice orgs via his profits. here's some bits on that:
- http://www.dailycatholic.org/issue/archives/1999Oct/199oct19,vol.10,no.199txt/oct19top.htm

- http://www.bostonphoenix.com/boston/news_features/daily/documents/02102760.htm

The above piece also mentions Dave Thomas, founder of Wendy's, but, as mentioned there and in various other places, it's tough to know what his deal really was. He had a huge adoption-support organization, and I've been to the page for it, but from what I saw, it was really about encouraging adoption, not about limiting repro choice.

Here's a piece which talks about Curves and Domino's, as well as Carl's Jr. : http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art24917.asp

(And just as a tip from someone who has tried to live as an ethical consumer, pretty much...eh, given my parents, always, supporting very small businesses rather than chains is often a really safe bet. Massive capitalism tends to breed this stuff, because there is such big money involved. As well, when you buy from a small business owner, eat from a local, single restaurant, you can get to know the owner's politics pretty first-hand, even just by asking.)

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morganlh85
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This is a tough issue for me. After all, just living in the US automatically means you are giving your support i.e. tax dollars to our fundamentally anti-choice government.
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JamsessionVT
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I can't drink beer (legally) yet, but both my parents have a drink once in a while (in fact, if I went and looked on the dates on the bottles in our fridge, I bet you they haven't had a sip of that stuff since last new years, when we got it )

But when I discovered that the Coors Brewing Company has been donating to various organizations that are anti-choice, anti-gay, and what one article calls "AIDS-phobic". I've never had Coors beer, but I know there is a few bottles sitting in the fridge, so I dumped them down the drain.

Here are some articles I've pulled when I Googled "Coors Anti-Choice":

http://www.aegis.com/news/bar/2001/BR010512.html
http://www.oberlin.edu/stupub/ocreview/archives/2001.03.02/perspectives/article09.htm

(The first link, if you go down to the third or fourth paragraph, mentions the Coors Company and their efforts in anti-choice groups)


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Heather
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Coors is also a tricky one, because they appear to have changed their tune lately on some of these issues.

For instance, the company provides full benefits to domestic partners now for employees.

(It's still really bad beer, though, so avoiding it isn't going to put a strain on anyone with working taste buds. )

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Posts: 68056 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Heather
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And Morgan, that's a cogent point.

However, there is a good deal of difference between money one is required to give under threat of law, and money one freely chooses to spend.

Were immigration easy-peasy, or something that anyone could easily do (ultimately, the only people who can do it easily are those in the high middle - upper classes), it might be a different scenario. But the degree of choice here per those dollars isn't comprable to the degree of choice in where one gets one's pizza from.

(And believe me, knowing where some tax dollars go burns nobody's hide here more than mine. Every year I file, I not only pay a higher rate because of being self-employed to do what I do, I know some of my dollars not only go to the military, but to ab-only stuff and antichoice things which I essentially work every day to repair, temper or try and change...and then pay people to undo my work. More than once, conscientiously objecting to pay taxes on that basis has very much crossed my mind, but I'm not sur what good I'd do anyone in jail, so every year, I just cringe and write the check instead.)


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maglight
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Why are you labeling the pro-live movement anti-choice? Morally there is no choice when dealing with abortion. Do you know what abortion actually is?

See for yourself: -- special effects and propaganda link removed, for reasons which should be obvious based on the user registration agreement, specifically the aspects about misinformation and choice issues --

[This message has been edited by Miz Scarlet (edited 07-07-2005).]


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DarkChild717
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Maglight, it is anti-choice because it deprives women of choice.

Scarleteen is a pro-choice site. It is also a privately funded sight, paid for and maintained by Heather and a staff of very caring individuals who give their time and effort into providing honest, truthful answers. If you don't agree with us, that's fine. But please keep the pro-life propaganda to a minimum--because we support ALL sexual reproductive choices.

And yes, we are perfectly aware of what abortion is.


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LilBlueSmurf
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Maglight,

Your anti choice propaganda is not welcome here. You can edit it out or we can edit it out for you. Continue to post such anti choice propaganda and you will find your posting privlidges revoked.

This is your first and last warning.


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maglight
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This isn't propaganda. I wasn't paid or asked by anyone to do this. (I won't post any more links if that is against your agreement).

I'm arguing that there is just as much of a moral choice as pulling out a piece and shooting someone as one has accepting an abortion. I fear you have affixed the "anti-choice" label because the title "pro-life" angers you, as that is the movement's official title.

It's the same type of question that the United States dealt with in the 1800's: Who counts as fully human under the law?

[This message has been edited by maglight (edited 07-07-2005).]


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dailicious
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Maglight, propaganda does not have to be paid for.

We're just trying to tell you, the same as you're telling us that while you have your beliefs, this site is a privately owned, pro-choice site and does not appreciate you making statements that in a way, attack what our own morals and ethics may be.

There are many on the board who do NOT share you morals and ethics.

You have to understand the anti-choice lable is affixed BECAUSE the movement only recognizes one way to go in the situation of pregnancy.

Pro-choice means women have the CHOICE to go through with their pregnancy, keep the child when it is born, adoption, OR to look into other options early on.

For YOU there may be only one moral choice, but for many other women there are many other moral and ethical choices.

And you're justified in bringing up the question "Who counts as fully human under the law?" And that questions is still completely debatable. Does a fetus have the same rights as a human being? Some would say it does while others would disagree. It's fine that you believe in your morals, and you should hold to them, but don't try to force them onto any of us or bring a negative message to others who may not have the same morals you do.


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Heather
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When I meet an antiabortion, anti-capital punishment, organic vegan, tolerant pacifist, THEN -- and only then -- might I be comfortable with the "pro-life" moniker for that individual, and more interested in their idea, should they have it (and they likely would not, given that to have all of those positions, they'd understand quite a great deal more about abortion, human rights issues and reproductive politics than your average bear) that shooting someone was the same as having an abortion.

But after gawd knows how many years working in these issues, I have yet to find even one. Isn't that curious, now? Go figure.

Until that time, antichoice IS what is most accurate, because the work being done is to limit women's reproductive options, and that is the context of these discussions. As well, most people who do call themselves pro-life do support causes which very clearly and simply do not safeguard or even allow the lives of others.

But yes, doctored, misrepresented abortion photos are propaganda, as is a page chock full of misinformation on reproduction, pregnancy and abortion, all of which is very easily countered with widespread medical information supported by bipartisan sources. And yes, posting it is against our policy, as is arguing here that women should not have the right to all currently available reproductive options. It is simply not a debate I will entertain on my dime again and again, because I prefer my energy and money support, rather than counter, the rights of grown women, which a great many fetuses grow into and have -- or lose -- the rights of.

(And that is a literal chicken/agg argument worth considering if you're going to play that recent card: if you want to talk about fetal rights needing to exist without considering the massive logical loophole that opens when half those fetuses would, when they ARE actually living, born beings, be then DEPRIVED of rights as women and adults, you're going to end up wearing that egg on your face with people well-versed in these issues.)

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Heather Corinna
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[This message has been edited by Miz Scarlet (edited 07-09-2005).]


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jewelgirl1
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quote:
Originally posted by maglight:

I'm arguing that there is just as much of a moral choice as pulling out a piece and shooting someone as one has accepting an abortion. I fear you have affixed the "anti-choice" label because the title "pro-life" angers you, as that is the movement's official title.

It's the same type of question that the United States dealt with in the 1800's: Who counts as fully human under the law?


This isn't an abortion debate boad, maglight, however, you have started one. You use the word moral choice.

Fine. Okay. I will go with my moral choice, whatever that may be. But the pro-choice movement is about not only what your moral choice is, but what the next person's is.

And who decides what is the moral choice, what is the "right" choice? What you think is right doesn't mean it's what I think is right. So because you think this is wrong, I should be barred from it?

And as well, if you cannot trust a woman with a choice, how can you honestly trust her with a child? Especially one she doesn't want. Because adoption isn't always an option, you realize, because some babies won't be adopted (biracial babies and others have a smaller chance) and our foster care system is horrible (many cases of abuse or even death). I would rather have that fetus not be able to live than have to suffer through it's whole life in pain.

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polyeaster1
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I personally disagree with abortion. I certainly understand why some people feel like that's their only option, and I will not judge anyone for having an abortion, although I could never recommend it. I think that abortion causes alot of problems that aren't really talked so much about. I understand that this is a pro- choice site, and I'd be the first to say I don't want to see any graphic photos of abortion, talk about killing etc. People know what abortion is. But I do disagree with someone basically being told that they're wrong for being pro-life. It's ok to choose to be pro-life. That's what pro-choice means, and there's nothing wrong with it. I sense a heavy lean toawrds pro- abortion...
I think that there's nothing wrong with companies who contribute to pro-life groups. It's one thing if that group os running around showing people crazy pics, etc. But if a group os trying to offer other options to people, why punish them for it?

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chai_tea
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Polyeaster: I, too, believe that abortion is wrong, and wouldn't ever want to be in the position where I would have to make that kind of a decision. However, that's my choice to make. And I'd like it to stay that way. Because when that choice gets taken away, we have situations like before Roe v Wade, where women who are desperate to get an abortion in any way possible will do it illegally, and dangerously.
That's why I don't patronize companies that give money to pro-life/anti-choice (however you want to frame it) groups. Because the money that goes to these special-interest groups, who spend that money lobbying politicians to get tougher restrictions on abortion. If you wouldn't give money to pro-life groups, you shouldn't be shopping at Domino's. And I think people should know where their money's going.

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dailicious
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Exactly like chai_tea said; NO ONE here will tell you it's wrong to be pro-choice. That is a completely responsible and moral decision based on your views and you choice.

What we're tying to differentiate between, however, an INDIVIDUAL finding abortion is morally wrong and holding that moral opinion to themselves, and an ORGINIZATION which forces the idea onto everyone that abortion is complete immoral and anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong. Many of these companies ARE the ones pushing anri-choice propaganda around; HARASSING not only abortion clinic workers, but workers of establishments such as Planned Parenthood; orginizations who will harass women who look into any other options or patronize pro-choice clinics; etc.

We're not trying to say anyone is wrong for thing abortion is wrong; that is anyone's choice as much as it is anyone's choice to feel abortion IS okay. This is a pro-choice site, which means many here do hold some bias, but what this topic really is more about is our opinion that while it's okay to feel abortion is wrong; like most things, you cross the line of it being a personal choice to being harassment and propaganda and forcing an opinion absed on belief when you get into the "anti-choice" orginizations that these companies are supporting.


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LilBlueSmurf
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Whether anyone here thinks abortion is right or wrong here is not up for discussion. As dailicious has said, we're a pro-choice site ... We support others' right to making a choice (whatever that choice may be). Posts with "I disagree with abortion" or "abortion is wrong" place judgement on others (others who are pro choice and/or have had abortions) and this is NOT acceptable.

If we can't get back on track (listing companies that contribute to pro-life organizations), this thread will be closed.


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DarkChild717
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You know, I like this idea of a blacklist, but what about companies that CONTRIBUTE to pro-choice organizations, websites, etc? Who support choice?

I know a few are listed on Scarleteen's donations page, but are there any national or international companies that we, as women, can support, knowing our money is eventually getting to those who need it?


Posts: 2789 | From: The Evergreen State | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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