Donate Now
Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Got Questions? Get Answers. » SCARLETEEN CENTRAL » Sexual Ethics and Politics » why abortion laws are important

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: why abortion laws are important
alaska
Scarleteen Volunteer
Member # 1896

Icon 1 posted      Profile for alaska     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I just read about a case in Mexico, where a 12 year old mentally challenged girl is seeking abortion after she was raped by her father, and again realised how important it is to have laws that are definite about abortion and that abortion is legal.
Just thought I'd share this with you. A little reminder that we whop live in countries with pro-choice laws should do everthing to protect those laws.

Girl's rape fuels abortion debate in Mexico

quote:
LOS MOCHIS, Mexico (July 13, 2001 2:46 p.m. EDT) - Lucila's shy giggle petered out as the conversation turned away from her dolls and touched on her pregnancy.

"I'm getting fat because I'm eating a lot," said the 12-year-old with a mental age of 8.

She conceived four months ago after being raped by her father, and is now at the center of a debate over abortion in the northwestern city of Los Mochis in Sinaloa state.

"She doesn't really understand what is going on, and what she does understand she can't accept," said the child's mother, Lucia, who has been seeking a legal abortion for her daughter since finding out the devastating news six weeks ago.

Abortion in Mexico is regulated by state law, and the Sinaloa state penal code is typical of most. It prohibits abortion in all but cases of rape and serious danger to the mother's health.

Even though Lucila's case clearly fulfills these criteria, all efforts to go through official channels have been blocked by laws that are fuzzy on how to get a legal abortion and officials unwilling to risk breaking the law.

"Nobody wants to take responsibility for this, and the doors have closed everywhere as each authority passes the buck to the next," said Patricia Espinoza, a psychologist who works with Lucila in a weekly group for children with mental disabilities.

Sitting in her brick home decorated with pictures of the Virgin of Guadalupe and shaded by lime and papaya trees, the mother said she has visited and revisited the state prosecutor and the judge handling the rape case, as well as a stream of doctors and social assistance officials who have all told her they were powerless to help.

At the center of the problem is the law, which fails to establish who can authorize an abortion, or up until what month a legal abortion can be performed.

"Our obligation was to process the rape case, but the abortion issue is out of our hands," said state prosecutor Edna Aguilar who noted that the father had been detained and jailed.

She added that if a doctor was willing to give Lucila an abortion, her office would decide after the event if the action was legal.

The doctors Lucila's mother has approached said they would not operate without a judicial order that guaranteed them protection from prosecution.

According to Espinosa, the psychologist, the increasing risks associated with Lucila's advancing pregnancy have only heightened the doctors' reluctance to get involved. "If anything happened to the child during the abortion, they would be blamed, but if she dies in childbirth, nobody is responsible," Espinosa said.

The official unwillingness to tackle the problem also reflects a countrywide tendency to avoid the abortion issue.

Throughout Mexico, relatively strict laws reflect a Roman Catholic morality, but they also go hand-in-hand with the tendency to turn an official blind eye to clandestine abortions.

That uneasy situation was challenged last year when anti-abortion groups were emboldened by the presidential victory of the devoutly religious Vicente Fox. In one case, pressure from anti-abortion activists resulted in a 14-year-old rape victim being denied an abortion in Baja California state.

But with powerful forces also favoring increased rights to abortion, Fox has tried to avoid the issue, saying he favors leaving laws as they are.

"The situation is the same as ever," said Susana Vidales of the Information Group for Reproductive Choice. She said women with financial resources can usually find clinics willing to perform safe, if secret abortions, while the poor turn to often dangerous back-street methods.

Her group estimates some 850,000 abortions are performed in Mexico every year, only a small number legally.

Prosecutor Aguilar said nobody in Sinaloa had ever even tried to get a legal abortion before Lucila's mother applied.

Sitting in the tiny room where she sleeps with her three children, the mother berated herself for not doing more to protect Lucila. She had left the child with her husband while she was working as a domestic servant, making $7.70 a day.

She said her only concern now was to find a solution for her daughter. She said she felt no contradiction between her religious beliefs and her hunt for an abortion.

"I am a Catholic and I am going to stay one, and as far as I can see, in my daughter's case, abortion is not a sin," the mother said. "If it is, let God judge me on that one, nobody else."


------------------
Caro
~spanking new Scarleteen Sexpert~

"Through repetition the magic will be forced to rise."
Alchemical Precept


Posts: 4526 | From: germany | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pixie69
Activist
Member # 406

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Pixie69     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
::sigh:: I read a news article somewhere about a girl whose over-zealous religious father was raping her. In her state it was illegal to get an abortion without notifying the partent (if you're under 18) so she took a bus to the next state over to have the procedure done. Well...the father found out, considered it a sin, and killed his daughter.

I read it at a reliable source, although I don't have the link now so but it's situations like that that make me sad. The parents shouldn't have to be notified if their daughter is having an abortion, because it is the daughter's decision. Now I know I put too much faith in teenagers to make better decisions but...it saddens me.

I mean, abortions are going to happen anyway, whether they're legal or not, because they always have. So would lawmakers rather have someone get an illegal unregulated abortion in god knows what kind of unsterile place and lose the mother and the baby? What are they thinking?

------------------
Brittany
Scarleteen Advocate

"Just say no" fights teen pregnancy the way "hey, cheer up" fights manic depression.


Posts: 1339 | From: Las Vegas, NV, USA | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Confused boy
Activist
Member # 1964

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Confused boy     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I dont quite get this: how can you be deeply religious and yet also raping your daughter. It is just about the biggest hypocracy you can get.

------------------
'An Anarchist is a Liberal with a bomb' Trotsky


Posts: 711 | From: England | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Milke
Activist
Member # 961

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Milke     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Anti-choicers often argue that adoption in the best solution to unwanted pregnancies. But who wants this baby? The mother, who hardly seems fit to care for it? Her mother, who's having difficulty supporting the children she has already? The dad, who evidently has no respect for his children at all? The government that's refusing to help this little girl?

Morals just aren't moral when they get in the way of ethics.


Posts: 5122 | From: I *came* from the land of ice and snow | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Bobolink
Activist
Member # 1386

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Bobolink         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
In Canada, the law is mute on abortion. And since it isn't forbidden in any circumstance, anything is legal.

------------------
We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.

- Albert Einstein


Posts: 3442 | From: Stirling, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Laughs_Wisely
Activist
Member # 2610

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Laughs_Wisely     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Actually Bobo, that isn't entirely true. After doing my reading some months ago, I know for a fact that, in Saskatchewan (I do not know about other provinces), abortions are legal before 3 months. After 3 months, they can only be performed on authorization of a ob-gyn, and only if continuing the pregnancy threatens the health of the mother.
Of course, if you actually want to get an abortion in Saskatchewan, you have to know within two weeks of getting pregnant. Otherwise, you're gonna get screwed by the system (it took my friend nearly 8 weeks from positive test to procedure). On the other hand, the clinics here don't do the procedure. The hospital does.

------------------
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
( Tr. "I have a catapult. Give me all the money, or I will fling an enormous rock at your head." )


Posts: 140 | From: Saskatoon, SK, Canada | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Bobolink
Activist
Member # 1386

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Bobolink         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
There might be a question as to whether or not Saskatchewan medicare would cover it but criminal law in Canada is a strictly federal preogative. The provinces have no jurisdiction.

------------------
We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.

- Albert Einstein


Posts: 3442 | From: Stirling, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Dzuunmod
Scarleteen Volunteer
Member # 226

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Dzuunmod     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
...and in Sask. the clinics don't do the procedure because there are none! Along with Nova Scotia, I believe, it is a province without abortion clinics.

Dr. Henry Morgentaler (who all you Canucks know, I hope) wrote a very informative comment piece on this stuff for the Globe, the other day. I can't seem to locate it on the paper's site, though.

------------------
"...we're all thinking the same thing/let's not settle for satisfaction/we are women and men of action/let's stop clapping let's start doing/a dream for the teens and in-betweens and twenties yet unseen"
-Braid


Posts: 1515 | From: Montreal, Quebec, Canada | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Laughs_Wisely
Activist
Member # 2610

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Laughs_Wisely     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
"...and in Sask. the clinics don't do the procedure because there are none! Along with Nova Scotia, I believe, it is a province without abortion clinics."

That strikes me as false somehow. I know we have (or had fairly recently) a chapter of Planned Parenthood in S'toon. I looked it up for a friend. I know for certain, though, that the clinics, PP or no, don't perform the procedure. The hospital does. Therefore, 'abortion clinic' doesn't really apply, and there are none in Saskatoon. PP probably provides a referral service here...

------------------
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
( Tr. "I have a catapult. Give me all the money, or I will fling an enormous rock at your head." )


Posts: 140 | From: Saskatoon, SK, Canada | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Dzuunmod
Scarleteen Volunteer
Member # 226

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Dzuunmod     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I couldn't find the article on the Web site, but I did manage to pull out the paper copy that was cluttering my apartment floor. In it, Morgentaler writes,
"While abortions in hospitals are covered by medicare, clinic coverage across Canada is a hodgepodge of provincial practices. In Ontario, B.C., Alberta and Newfoundland, women having abortions in clinics will be covered by their provincial medicare plans. In Manitoba, Quebec, New Brunswick and Nova Scotia women who go to clinics must pay themselves. And Prince Edward Island and Saskatchewan have no clinics at all."

I'm just going by what the man says...

------------------
"...we're all thinking the same thing/let's not settle for satisfaction/we are women and men of action/let's stop clapping let's start doing/a dream for the teens and in-betweens and twenties yet unseen"
-Braid


Posts: 1515 | From: Montreal, Quebec, Canada | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
'rin
Activist
Member # 1950

Icon 8 posted      Profile for 'rin     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
is anybody trying to raise money to have the girl and her mother flown somewhere, like the us maybe, where the procedure can be done? i think i could stand to miss a student loan payment for that.........
in a class on ethics i took once, the professor brought up a similar instance. (i dont' remember what newspaper he got it from tho). in some southern state in the us a girl was raped by her father. this state required parental notification before having an abortion. the girls mother took her to have the abortion. the clinic, for some unknown reason, decided that they had to have both parent's concent and called the father. he said no. when the mother and daughter went home he shot them both, and put a bullet in the daughter's stomach for good measure. i don't remember what happened to the guy, but whatever it was i'm sure it wasn't enough.
'rin

------------------
"-and i hope i'm not shooting my mouth off...again...and i pray i'm not tempting the fates....."
-james, off millionaires


Posts: 219 | From: lost in yonkers | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Beppie
Scarleteen Volunteer
Member # 94

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Beppie     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
From the legal point of view, I agree with most people- she should be allowed to have the abortion.

However, is it actually ethical for the girl to have an abortion when she doesn't understand the procedure? Should someone else be allowed to make the decision for her? From a practical standpoint, I think that the abortion should probably go ahead- after all, the girl is obviously not a capable mother, and her mother probably doesn't want the committment of bringing up another child- especially one conceived in such painful circumstances. And as Pixie said, the baby's chances of being adopted into a good family aren't the highest. However, I don't think that the issue is black and white- when does it become okay to perform an abortion without the mother's informed consent?


Posts: 2710 | From: Australia | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
madlight
Neophyte
Member # 4946

Icon 1 posted      Profile for madlight     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Why is it that all of you think that murder should be legal?

------------------


Posts: 3 | From: Martinsville, IN, USA | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Confused boy
Activist
Member # 1964

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Confused boy     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
This is a pro-choice website that believes abortion should be freely available. I dont personally agree with some of these ideas but in general I support the availability of abortion.

Besides according to most scientists and more liberal theologians a foetus is only a life of its own after 40 days of conception (thats when its cells start to take on different kinds of tissues rather than simly being a collection of cells).

------------------
'An Anarchist is a Liberal with a bomb' Trotsky


Posts: 711 | From: England | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.
UBB Code™ Images not permitted.
Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Get the Whole Story! Go Home to SCARLETEEN: Sex Ed for the Real World | Privacy Statement

Copyright 1998, 2014 Heather Corinna/Scarleteen
Scarleteen.com: Providing comprehensive sex education online to teens and young adults worldwide since 1998

Information on this site is provided for educational purposes. It is not meant to and cannot substitute for advice or care provided by an in-person medical professional. The information contained herein is not meant to be used to diagnose or treat a health problem or disease, or for prescribing any medication. You should always consult your own healthcare provider if you have a health problem or medical condition.

Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3