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» Scarleteen Boards: 2000 - 2014 (Archive) » SCARLETEEN CENTRAL » Sexual Ethics and Politics » pornography...

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Author Topic: pornography...
beenthere
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Here's something that some of you might find interesting. If nothing else, it will give you another point of view to think about.
http://www.victimsofpornography.org

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Duff
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i think it's really insane that people try to blame all these social problems on something that doesn't even cause them! i tihkn we should focus more on, where these problems come from and why sex is really so focused on in this culture, not a manifestation of that.
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Pixie69
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Hmm...well, here's my point of view about pornography:

I saw my first pornographic magazine when I was about 8 years old, keep in mind that I'm female. We got a computer and AOL when I was in fourth grade (about nine years old), and my parents didn't put on any parental controls. They knew that there probably wasnt' too much trouble I could get into, and they knew that I was a pretty mature kid (as was my brother). And guess what? I never ran into anything I couldn't handle. By the time I was 11 I had a nice little mental list of the best porn sites and the best erotica sites. I never shyed away from sex or masturbation, ever, and I still don't. There are very few sexual topics that I don't know about or won't talk about it. But guess what? It hasn't ruined me. I don't have a false idea of what sex is and isn't. Sex is sex, it can be pleasurable, it can be horrible (in cases of rape), it can be used to exploit children (child pornography), but sex is sex is sex. I didn't have a false idea about what it would or wouldn't bring me. I know that sex and love don't always go hand in hand, and they don't always have to either. Pornography didn't make me a victim, it didn't ruin me, it didn't make me sex crazed, it just added a little bit to make me who I am today: a strong chick who knows what she likes (sexually), who has an active sex life (mostly with myself), who can debate with the best of them and discuss a lot of different things with a lot of different people; basically, an openminded individual.

"pornography promotes an antisocial kinds of sexual activity, such as sadomasochism, abuse, and humiliation of females, involvement of children, incest, group sex, voyeurism, sexual degradation, bestiality, torture, objectification, and sanction of "the rape myth" <~~from the website. Who says that these things are bad? If it is between consenting adults, then it shouldn't be considered bad (although I don't agree with the involvment of children or animals, since they can't properly give consent), but torture, sexual degredation, objectification, abuse (in a role-play form) can spice up any sex life, and shouldn't be seen necessarily as negative things.

Not to mention that the website doesn't take into acount females that look at porn, or the fact that sex can just be sex, and it only talks about heterosexuals. The problem with a lot of websites out there is that they don't show both sides of the coin. How many women have become more sexually assertive about what they like? A lot of couples just go with the "oh she doesn't orgasm so it's all about me" kind of thing, well pornography promotes masturbation, which in turn makes you more aware of what you like to do and how you like to be touched So everyone go grab some porn.

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Brittany
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It's hard being a human being - Shirley Manson


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Bobolink
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(deleted due to an unwarranted personal comment about beenthere.Thanks to Confusedboy who pointed this out to me. - Bobolink)

People who click on his link should go further to http://www.victimsofpornography.org/Facts___Figures/facts___figures.htm

Where you will find vague generalizations, discredited studies, or anecdotal stories cited as sources. What is also interesting is that so many of these sources have the same authors and publishers. Academic credentials are not given.

For a refreshing change of pace, visit here: http://www.zetetics.com/mac/freeinqu.htm

or here: http://construct.haifa.ac.il/~azy/sex-guys.htm

or here: http://www.afn.org/~sfcommed/Pornography.htm

This last link is an academic study and a tough read but the data clearly shows that, in Japan, the increase in available pornography is accompanied by a DECREASE in sex-related crimes.

As for beenthere, I would be most interested to learn of his thoughts on women's role in contemporary society and modern feminism.

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We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.

- Albert Einstein

[This message has been edited by Bobolink (edited 06-12-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Bobolink (edited 06-13-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Bobolink (edited 06-13-2001).]


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Confused boy
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Hey hey, why you people being so dualistic here about Beenthere. We are all here to learn and he has brought an interesting (if easily refutable) site for us to look at. He didnt say it proved anything, just said it gives another point of view. Lets not have this "Us" and "Them" distinction. I like to think I'm religious (though not Christian) but I still can see eye to eye on many subjects here.
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Bobolink
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Hi Confusedboy. You're right. I should not have made a personal judgement call on beenthere, I will delete that part. I did find the link very weak.

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We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.

- Albert Einstein


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Laughs_Wisely
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I have been looking at porn since I was 12 or 13. No computer, because we didn't get the 'net till I turned 16. Sadly, on Friday nights, I used to watch it on late late late late night (Midnight. I was 12.) pay per view stations, with the picture mostly fuzzed out and only the sound to work with. It was kind of fun, trying to figure out what was going on.

My tastes have become more refined now, and I tend to view pornography more intellectually now. That is, when I watch porn, I'm usually trying to figure out how people can be turned on by the stuff on the screen. Do I think it's damaging? Like many activities, for some people, it can be. I don't think it's universally damaging, though.


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beenthere
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The above site is not one of the best I've ever seen. However that doesn't change the fact that there is a lot of data to support the idea that pornography is harmful. Most of the information on the harmful effects would not even be reported. I would venture to say that most of you who have been abused sexually had perpetrators that used porn. I personally know of several victims where that was the case. Granted, using porn doesn't automatically turn you into a molester. However, dismissing the link between pornography and sexual abusers is very short sighted.

Some of you are saying “Hey, I’ve been looking at porn since I was ___.” (Fill in the blank.) “And I’m female.” And “It hasn’t hurt me.” Well, maybe not from what you can tell. Like a drug, pornography doesn’t affect everyone in the exact same way at the exact same rate. Like those involved in drugs, those involved in porn either can’t or won’t admit that it is having a detrimental effect on their lives. And like drug use nothing good comes out of porn use in the end.

For you females: 99% of the porn I’ve seen on the net is very derogatory and degrading towards women. It has been from the beginning and it always will be. From the time text based browsers first became popular to now, the textual info at porn sites contain some of the most crude, foul, and derogatory language I have ever seen. All of it at the female of the species expense. Women, girls, and MEN, if that doesn’t offend you then nothing will.

In closing I ask, “What’s the problem with porn?” There are many.
1. It depicts women and sometimes men as
objects to be used.
2. It comes nowhere close to reflecting
reality. In fact it encourages users to
escape reality through fantasy and lust.
3. It desensitizes you and inhibits
meaningful, caring, and loving relationships.
4. Like a drug user, you can find yourself
needing harder core material and more
material to create the same effect.
5. It destroys families and hurts
relationships.
6. And on and on.

Porn is especially dangerous to those who lack social skills, to those who have been rejected and scorned. It provides a deceptive alternate reality for these people to escape into. By the time you realize that porn isn’t all it’s cracked up to be, it’s often too late, the damage has been done.

For those of you that think you are above either molesting someone, using someone, or otherwise hurting someone because of porn, don’t be foolish. You wouldn’t be the first to think that and you won’t be the last.


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Lisa D
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In your list of "problems with porn," many of your comments seem to be based in your own opinion, as opposed to facts established by medical groups or other research groups. This is fine, of course, but you can't expect everyone to accept those comments as fact because there are no sources to back them up.

Pornography comes in a variety of shapes and sizes, some of which is crude, or just bloody boring, while some of it is an incredible turn on by the sheer fact that it *isn't* based in reality. Reality is the fact that I do laundry, have a demanding job, am a fabulous cook, and have a wonderful partner whom I practice monogomy with. Fantasy is just that, and thank god, because a lot of porn, rife with bad eyeshadow, frosted hair, and a soundtrack that resembles herbie hancock on PCP usually reduces just about anyone i know down to fits of laughter. It's ACTING, it isn't reality, and i think just about anybody with a modicum of common sense can recognize that. Fantasy is a healthy way to stimulate the libido and make "real" encounters more fulfilling, especially when the normal ebb and flow of intimacy is at low tide. It's something my partner and I share together, and we have a lot of fun doing so. And you know what? neither of us feels that it affects out relationship adversely because it has nothing to do with us. We're merely watching playactors on a screen, or in print, or online.

You seem to be confusing people who have a sex addiction with people who use pornography. These people (sex addicts) cannot take part in a normal relationship, with all of its hardships and work, so they supplement it with a world completely rooted in fantasy. This makes up a very small part of people who use pornography. Most folks who enjoy various types or porn like it because their curious, they enjoy the "taboo" aspect, or they simply find voyueristic pleasure in watching others have sex. Women use it, men use it, and both groups can find parts of it they like and don't like. As with anything, you take the good and the bad, sift through it, and keep what you think has value.


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Pixie69
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Well, you aren't going to change your opinion, and I'm certainly not going to change mine, so I'm not going to waste my breath in that aspect.

However, you say that the link between pornography and sexual molestation can't be ignored, and that most sexual molestors look at porn. Consider that the vast majority of the population does or has looked at porn. Saying that people who look at porn are more likely to molest someone is like saying people who look at porn are more likely to be straight, but it's only like that just because there are more straight people out there. A basic sense of math and psychology will show you that molestors have something in common, and it's not porn.

And beenthere, your arguments are vague. Give me specific things that you think I will do or that I do do as a person that looks at porn.

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Brittany
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Finish the fairy tale that you were drunk enough to start - Veruca Salt


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beenthere
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Personal opinion or what I've seen, learned, and experienced?

Pixie please read what I said and NOTE that I did not say that viewing porn would turn you into a molester. And even though most molesters use porn, they don't have that in common?

I think it's interesting that you have no comment on what I've had to say about porn being derogatory and crude. Especially towards women. I'm sure you could come up with a nice rationalization though.


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Rizzo
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Studies show most molesters also breathe, eat, and have a heartbeat There is a difference between correlation and causation (as they love to tell you in psych classes).

Beenthere, I agree that a lot of porn is degrading to women, but this doesn't mean I will judge all porn as evil. It means that if I want to look at porn, I'm going to have to fish through a lot of it before I find something I like. If we want porn that's less degrading, I think we should encourage more women to produce porn so the field is more balanced.


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John Doe
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Beenthere,
there is a very powerful counter argument to what you are saying. that is that porn acts as a substitute for real sex. the point of porn is jerking off, plain and simple. It can provide an outlet for people who if they did not have that outlet would be MORE likely to be sexually agressive and molest, rape etc. Even if porn acts differently on different people, and makes some more likely to act out in sexually inapropriate ways, it does not follow that if porn were eliminated that there would be less sexually inapropriate or aggressive behavior. The decrease in bad behavior by those who were formally incited to do so by porn could be, and most likely would be more than offset by an increase in bad behavior by those who were previously pacified by porn.

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Pixie69
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http://my.webmd.com/content/article/1687.50105 Here is a fairly interesting article, it's just a little research thing about whether or not people who look at pornography (on the internet) are likely to become addicted blah blah. Basically it shows that:
--accessing Internet sexual venues did not have a negative impact on the lives of the vast majority (92%)
---8% of Internet users can be categorized as "compulsive
---and of that 8%, 3-6% loneliness, low self-esteem, and lack of sexual self-control

If porn was really that bad, wouldn't the numbers be higher? If it was the cause of all the things that you say, then why are the vast majority of these people just fine and have no negative aspects from their habits?

beenthere, it's fine to talk about things that you've seen, learned, and experienced; but have you seen learned or experienced? You don't mention anything about being sexually molested (by someone who looked at porn), you don't mention that you've seen it happen to anyone else, and you've only given us one site where you've learned it (which, you admitted yourself wasn't a good site)

Yeah, a lot of porn is derogatory and crude. So are a lot of TV shows, and a lot of music, and a lot of people, that's just how life is. You've got to sift through the bad to get to the good. the more you get to know people, the more you get to know what kind of people you like. It's the same way with pornography. It's degrading to the women, but guess what? It's a job. They're getting paid for it, so while *I* don't like that pornography, I can respect that they're putting food on the table for their families, and I can respect that there are people who like that stuff too.

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Brittany
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Finish the fairy tale that you were drunk enough to start - Veruca Salt


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Lisa D
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Beenthere,

You would be well served to ease up on the snide tone you take in your posts. Your comment of, "I'm sure you could come up with a nice rationalization" is patronizing, at best.

And, Don't give me the line about your right to express your opinion. Your opinion is not problematic, but your attitude is. You are simply hurting your credibility, and no one else's.

What you have seen, learned, and experienced is quite a bit different from what I, or anyone else at these boards has seen, learned or experienced. Judging from your posts, you are an adult (obviously) who comes from a very conservative, religious background - I am VERY familiar with this background, and i am well aware of all the arguments against pornography. Fine - no problemo, but the posters on this board come from a variety of ethnic, religious, and socio-economic backgrounds, and don't share the same moral convictions you do about pornography.

As far as being deragatory to women, yes, some porn is. So is some music, television, movies, religion, literature, advertising, and media bias (the last two more so because they are often quite insidious about it).

What interested me most was your comment about porn "breaking up families." Interesting. Unless one or both the parties involved weren't being honest with their patner about deriving enjoyment from porn, what's the harm? News flash, we're all curious about naked people, and naked people having sex. Many people like to look at naked people, and naked people having sex. Why is this so threatening?


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beenthere
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quote:
Originally posted by Pixie69:
beenthere, it's fine to talk about things that you've seen, learned, and experienced; but have you seen learned or experienced? You don't mention anything about being sexually molested (by someone who looked at porn), you don't mention that you've seen it happen to anyone else, and you've only given us one site where you've learned it (which, you admitted yourself wasn't a good site)

Yeah, a lot of porn is derogatory and crude. So are a lot of TV shows, and a lot of music, and a lot of people, that's just how life is. You've got to sift through the bad to get to the good. the more you get to know people, the more you get to know what kind of people you like. It's the same way with pornography. It's degrading to the women, but guess what? It's a job. They're getting paid for it, so while *I* don't like that pornography, I can respect that they're putting food on the table for their families, and I can respect that there are people who like that stuff too.


Pixie, not sure what you mean by "have I seen, learned, and experienced." I have not seen, learned, and experienced everything. I never will. I'm human. Finite.
Fortunately, I was never abused sexually. However, my wife and several people I have met have been, so I am conveying things that I have learned from them. I have also learned from my first-hand experience with porn, along with the experience of many other people that I have had the opportunity to meet.

I am sorry that you don't have a problem with women being put in degrading, humiliating situations whether they like it or not. I guess it's ok to take advantage of people as long as you pay them something, right? Does it bother you that many people are working under slavery conditions to produce the clothing and footwear that you buy? What price could be put on honor, dignity, and self-respect? I challenge you to take a closer look at the women that work in the porn industry and see if you would like to step in their shoes for a minute.


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Lisa D
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Ok, let's step into the shoes of:

Candida Royalle
Shar Rednour and Jackie Strano
Betty Dodson
Annie Sprinkle
Maria Betty
Tristan Taormino
Catherine Breillat
Cleo Dubois
Nin Harley
Joani Blank
Susie Bright
Carol Queen
Anais Nin
Cecilia Tan
Anne Rice

All of these women have been/currently are active in some aspect of pornography/erotica/smut/whatever you want to call it. This barely scratches the surface, but it is a good start for people looking for sex-positive erotica with a female perspective.


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Lynne
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quote:
I am sorry that you don't have a problem with women being put in degrading, humiliating situations whether they like it or not.
Last time I checked, women involved in pornography (legal porn, anyway) aren't being held there at gun point. If they don't like it, they can leave. It is their choice to be involved in porn, and these women are aware of what they're getting into (it's hard not to be) when they do decide to act in porn. That's informed consent, and a far cry from "whether they like it or not."
quote:
Does it bother you that many people are working under slavery conditions to produce the clothing and footwear that you buy?
Yes, but sweatshops and the porn industry are two different things. The women are paid quite a lot of money, unlike sweatshop workers.

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Heather
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...and if Susie's are too big for you (she's awfully tall), I'm happy to loan someone mine.

There is a lot of good reading to be done about the vast spectrum that is sexuality work, and from the inside out, rather than the outside in. Like almost any other industry, while there are certainly poor working conditions which exist in a few venues or avenues, there are many, many more in which the working conditions are at least as good as those of most workers in the world, if not better.

And in the cases in which the conditions are poor or abusive, some part of that is because of the politcal and social climate created which stigmatizes not only sexuality and sexual work, but most notaably *women* who do sexual work, even when they do so willingly and to their benefit. A third party deciding for a woman that she is a victim because in their minds no woman could enjoy sex work or even her own sexuality, and thus must be being coerced or abused creates a very negative environ all its own.

A few small reminders: one, make sure not to assume anoyone does what you assume all people must do, like, for instance, to purchase products created from mass labor, sweat shops or unfair trade. Plenty of folks go to great lengths to shop ethically when they can, and since many of our users are minors who cannot control their parents spending, it's also important to bear that in mind.

Too, if you're going to have a discussion about pornography, might be worth a reminder about what pornography is: it isn't just xxx-rated movies made ostensibly for heterosexual men, and made in a way that people find crass, and thus, one calls it porn (with a squishy-faced look of distaste). Pornography is a term which applies to any material -- of any level of quality -- that is created with the intent to induce sexual desire and arousal, whether it be created for hetero men, hetero women, lesbian women, gay men, couples, transsexuals, or anything else on the map. That material may be on video, still film, in fine art photography, in watercolor, in literary material, novels, poetry, in dance or in music.

It's a big, broad spectrum. Doesn't fit in a teeny box well at all.

[This message has been edited by Miz Scarlet (edited 06-14-2001).]


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Pixie69
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And I'm sorry that you see these women as being forced into these ''humiliating situations'' and that you think that these women don't have honor, dignity, and self-respect. You challenge me to look at these women? Guess what, I always have, and actually I wouldn't mind being in their shoes. I do plan on being a dominatrix sometime in my life, if only for the experience, and trust me, that's the most power you can give a woman. As for taking a closer look at the women, I know a very strong woman who is involved in the adult entertainment industry. She's my very intelligent, beautiful aunt. She's been in the industry for over 15 years as a stripper, model (in print porn), and porn star. She wasn't forced into it, she's not degraded by it, if anything it's made her a stronger, more assertive woman. I've met the women she works with, and they are the same way. Some of them are strippers/whatever because of a drug addiction, but a lot of them just do it because it's a job. It's not degrading or humiliating, it's empowering, it's an experience that makes them stronger. So although the shoes can be a little uncomfy to dance in (5 inch spikes? yowch!), I wouldn't mind being in them at all.

Why do you even bring up that people are working under slavery conditions? What does that have to do with anything? It has nothing to do with pornography, don't stray from the subject. And actually, I don't buy clothing or shoes that are made in 'sweatshops' (or are rumored to be) and I'm learning how to make my own clothing.

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Brittany
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Finish the fairy tale that you were drunk enough to start - Veruca Salt


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Dzuunmod
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So, beenthere, if there's a problem with pornography, then what do you think ought to be done about it?

You obviously think it's gone beyond the point where we, as a society, can say, 'well, that sort of decision is up to the individual,' otherwise I highly doubt you'd have posted this. (Think about it, if that's what you're saying, then where's the similarly-toned post about the victims of peanut allergies?)

What's to be done about this pornography problem?

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When you get off work tonight, meet me at the construction site, and we'll write some notes to tape to the heavy machines, like "We hope they treat you well. Hope you don't work too hard. We hope you get to be happy sometimes."
-the Weakerthans

[This message has been edited by Dzuunmod (edited 06-14-2001).]


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beenthere
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Pixie, lets take a look at what you said in your previous post:

"... It's degrading to the women, but guess what? It's a job. They're getting paid for it, so while *I* don't like that pornography, ..."

Which is why I brought up the idea of forced labor. Your response seems to imply the the ends justifies the means.

Anyway, I've read the stories of many women that have been in the industry who don't echo the rosy sentiments that you and everyone else here seem to have. Many women don't realize the detramental affect the porn industry has on their lives until they're out of it.

The bottom line for the porn industry is money. It's a huge money making business and the ones making the money as a whole don't give a damn about who gets hurt. Thousands of women ARE tricked into coming to the States from overseas to work in the porn industries. They are lied to as to what they will be doing when they get here, and are forced to work in strip joints, etc. That is documented fact. It happens more than anyone would like to think or admit.


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Dzuunmod
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What you seem to be saying, beenthere, is that pornography creates wealth for some, off of the backs of others. This is horrible, isn't it? This should be outlawed, shouldn't it? This is virtually every business in any capitalist country today. Why is porn any different?

Oh, and my last question to you stands...

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When you get off work tonight, meet me at the construction site, and we'll write some notes to tape to the heavy machines, like "We hope they treat you well. Hope you don't work too hard. We hope you get to be happy sometimes."
-the Weakerthans


Posts: 1515 | From: Montreal, Quebec, Canada | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Bobolink
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Member # 1386

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Nortel Networks just announced 10,000 layoffs today to go witht he 20,000 announced earlier.

Do they give a damn?

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We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.

- Albert Einstein


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Lisa D
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Member # 389

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None of us are debating that there are injustices in the porn industry, especially if you are focusing on your standard, garden variety XXX main-stream videos. There is injustice in *ANY* industry because the nature of most business is to maximize profits in any way possible, usually (heck, almost always) at the expense of workers - heck, just look at stock market forecasts and all the layoffs going on. The porn industry by no means has the corner on that market. Big Corporate conglomerates stink across the board, IMHO.

What we are saying is that there are *plenty* of choices available that are sex positive, and created by people who enjoy sexuality responsibly. blowfish.com, toysinbabeland.com and goodvibrations.com are all great places to look for items created by women and men who enjoy sharing, celebrating, and perpetuating sexuality of all sorts. Different folks like different things, and there are a wide variety of choices available...

It's the same as saying that you can never buy *ANY* tennis shoes because of what Nike does, or you can't buy *ANY* tires because of what Bridgestone/Firestone did, or you can't buy *anything* made by Kraft because Philip Morris owns them.

Now, I'm totally curious. You are obviously a very intelligent man - a married man - my age, or probably older (i see 30 clearly on the road ahead) Do you find no value whatsoever in any sort of erotica/porn? (ok, they mean the same thing in my mind, but some people feel more comfortable using an alternative word) And, I'm certainly not talking only about those horrendous main-stream movies (because they are just bloody awful from an artistic standpoint) but literature, fine art, poetry, etc? do you use NO outside stimulus for your sex life, whether that be your own personal sexual activity, or that you share with your partner, whatsoever?...

I mean, heck, it's none of my business, but I am terribly curious because I just can't imagine it. No erotic poems about intertwined bodies before bed? No sexy stories of wild abandon when the two of are alone together? No videos, with giggling conversations of "ooooohhhh, let's do that together later." or "whoa, I had no idea you could do THAT." No outside help when you want to enjoy your own sexuality sans partner?

Do you think ALL of it is bad, hands down?


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Heather
Executive Director & Founder
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I really have to note that anyone concerned with women being given the proper respect really should be concerned with what ALL of them are saying and feeling, not simply with those women who say what one wants to hear.

As a woman, no one has the right to decide for me if I am being "victimized" or degraded or not. Only I have that right, and anyone who seeks to dismiss or override my judgement on that -- or that of any other woman -- likely isn't as concerned with women as they say they are.

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Heather Corinna
Editor and Founder, Scarleteen

My epitaph should read: "She worked herself into this ground."
-- Kay Bailey Hutchinson


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Lisa D
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Member # 389

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Jeez, we all posted at the same time, eh?


Posts: 442 | From: Dublin, OH USA | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pixie69
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Member # 406

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Getting paid a decent wage (actually, a very good wage) for a job is an entirely different situation from forced labor.

I think 'thousands' is a little high of a number, but I see what you're saying. And guess what? It happens outside of the porn industry too, I know it personally. My own grandfather snuck his family across the border (that would be the Mexico/America border, not the Canadian one) because he had dreams of happiness, prosperity, and wealth. That's what the people told him he would find. Instead they found poverty, where they had to work at below minimum wage jobs illegally because it was their only choice. But you know what? He eventually got his children, wife and him self their citizenship and got a high school diploma. And it was hard, and there were people who tried to stop him because they liked the cheap labor, but he still did managed to do it.

My point is that these "thousands of women" can get out of it, they can run away from it and try to work their way from the bottom up. Unless they're being held under lock and key, which is a little far fetched for all the 'thousands of woman'. Sure their owners (if you will) will be angry and try to find them, but if they don't they'll just get more woman, because it's that easy to do it, right?

Although I didn't see any of this mentioned at your website, or in any of your previous arguments against pornography...

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Brittany
Scarleteen Advocate

real poetry is all based on this old myth about this beautiful, scary, trippy goddess who the poet wants to possess but he always loses her to this shadowy other guy - Girl Goddess #9


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WonderGirl16
Neophyte
Member # 4331

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I have no problem w/ pornography (well, i have a prob w/ children and animals... but anyway) and have been quite the fan of it since i found my mother's 2nd husband's playboys when i was 8 (i'm quite mature when it comes to things like this.) . i look at it as a way for me to expand my sexual "palet" w/o any risks of diseases. i can find out what i find stimulating and what i dont... so i think that porn is a good thing

why even bring up this subject.. u had to know what kind of a bomb-shell it would be...

.*.Nicki.*.


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