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» Got Questions? Get Answers. » SCARLETEEN CENTRAL » Sexual Ethics and Politics » Rapist identified from bitten-off testicles

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Author Topic: Rapist identified from bitten-off testicles
lemming
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Utterly amazing.
http://www.salon.com/people/wire/2001/05/22/testicles/index.html

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want to know the inner lemming? read her diary at http://innerlemming.diaryland.com/.
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alaska
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oy.

How hard would one have to bite to bite a testicle OFF? How much would it have hurt?

oy oy.

And how do you transport a bitten off testicle to the police station? And how do you as the officer react to someone dropping a bag with testicles on your desk?

oy oy oy.

Let's hope there will be some more follow up coverage to answer all these questions. I bet this man regreats this for the rest of his life.

So odd that it will turn into an urban ledgend.

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alaska
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I had to search for more on this, I confess:
http://chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/zorn/article/0,1122,SAV-0105220070,00.html

quote:

Eric Zorn: Painful lesson just beginning for rape suspect


It's the feel-good story of the year--the heartwarming tale of a local woman who bit the testicles off a man who allegedly tried to sexually assault her.

Who didn't nod with satisfaction at the news? At around 3:30 a.m. Friday, the 42-year-old woman walked into police headquarters on South Michigan Avenue holding a pair of testicles in her left hand. She told police a man had grabbed her from behind just after she left a nearby lounge, pushed her up against a car and attempted to force her to perform a particular act on him.

And she performed an act on him all right. Street surgery. Improv castration.

A short time later, when police heard that 21-year-old Erik Williams had come to the emergency room of nearby Michael Reese Hospital and Medical Center suffering from a corresponding injury, they put two and one together.

Officials charged Williams with aggravated criminal sexual assault, a Class X felony that carries a sentence of up to 30 years in prison. Bond was set Saturday at $300,000, but Williams remained hospitalized Monday in fair condition at Michael Reese, where he was under guard. A surgeon said the injuries were too extensive for him to attempt to reattach the testicles.

If this story is just as it seems (and, remember, it may not be; the hospital would not put calls through to Williams Monday so we have yet to hear his version of events; police say he has no record for sex crimes) then all the high-fives celebrating this instant justice are appropriate. If it happened more often, maybe we'd have fewer sexual predators.

But temper your elation by imagining the horror of the victim. "That she would do such a thing indicates the level of fear she was experiencing," said Polly Poskin, executive director of the Illinois Coalition Against Sexual Assault. "This story is a reminder of how terrifying rape truly is."

Poskin said it's also a reminder of the value of fighting back. "Studies show that 80 percent of women who actively resist their attackers avoid being rape victims," she said. "Women should be aware of that and study self-defense."

Another issue: What should the state do for Williams if he is found guilty and sent to prison?

Castration has been a punishment for rapists and adulterers throughout much of history. Its symbolic value is supported by European studies that show recidivism rates for sex offenders drop dramatically when they are castrated and the source of the male hormone is removed. The U.S. Supreme Court has said involuntary surgical castration is unconstitutional, yet debates flare up periodically in various states about voluntary castration and involuntary, reversible chemical "castration" as alternatives to imprisonment for sex offenders.

But this situation stands to turn those debates on their heads. Should the state pay for hormone therapy to chemically reverse a convicted rapist's castration?

Dr. Glenn Gerber, a urologist at the University of Chicago Medical School, said castration is surrounded by myth. It does not cause a grown man's voice to turn falsetto nor does it necessarily eliminate sexual desire or erectile function. Urologists perform the surgery on prostate cancer patients who then cannot be treated with testosterone-replacement drugs. "It generally diminishes libido," said Gerber. "We're also likely to see muscle atrophy, an increase in fatigue, some growth of breast tissue and a loss of body hair and bone density."

Officials at the Illinois Department of Corrections said prisoners receive only treatments deemed "medically necessary." Mike Mahoney, president of the John Howard Association, a prison watchdog group, said that disputes over the definition of "necessity" arise from time to time under less sensational circumstances, but that IDOC doctors have tended to be reasonable.

So is restoring masculine vigor to a man who has allegedly disgraced the ideals of masculinity medically necessary? Even a good idea?

"It's a borderline call," said Gerber, who is not involved in the case. "I'd be hard-pressed to say these side effects are life-threatening, but they do impact quality of life. My opinion is that hormone therapy is not medically necessary, but I wouldn't argue with a doctor who said it is."

Prison and county jail officials deferred their answers Monday, saying they've never faced such a question before.

But with luck, they will again




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AngelElisheva
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Three words: You go, girl!

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Aquamarine
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Thanks for the more extensive article, Alaska! What a strange situation...well, all I can say is that the man got what he deserved. That is, if the story is entirely true, and it seems to be...

:: Shakes head in disbelief ::


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Celtic Daisy
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Oh my goodness! Hahah, that has got to be the weirdest story i've heard in a while.
hehe!

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Lin
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I read that on salon as well (work sucks) and well what can I say.

He got his just deserts. Now that's a class we women need. How to bite off a man's testicles.


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KittenGoddess
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Lovely really, simply lovely. He definately got what he deserved, and I really don't feel bad for him at all. That reminds me of the story of the guy who broke into the house of this little old lady and tried to rape her. She grabbed ahold of his penis, dug her nails in, squeezed and twisted it as hard as she could. Walked him right out of her house and kept him pinned in her front yard until the police got there.

I found that very inspiring.

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Dzuunmod
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Did he really get what he deserved? Does anyone deserve that? Two wrongs don't make a right, and all that jazz...?

Do we cut off hands, for robbers, next? Can I take out your eye, if I don't like how you're using it on me?

I'm against violence as a form of punishment, and I'm against anyone taking the law into their own hands. I suppose I'm a person who didn't 'nod in agreement' with this 'feelgood' story.

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KittenGoddess
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Well Dzuu, you may be right about two wrongs not making a right, but there is a significant difference between robbery or looking at someone, and actually physically raping someone. Look at the number of repeat offenders for crimes like rape...apparently what we're doing right now isn't working.

In a community near mine, there has recently become a problem with overcrowding in the county jail, it's currently opperating at more than twice its capacity. They've 'run out of non-violent offenders to release', so guess who they're talking abour releasing next? The violent offenders with "lesser crimes"...those convicted of minor cases of assault, domestic violence, and rape. Speaking as a woman, I find this highly worrisome. How many of these people are really "rehabilitated"? And they're just letting them out because of overcrowding...essentially giving them a slap on the wrist and sending them about their business. Very frightening if you ask me.

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Lin
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I think it's quite different Dzuun. The woman bit off his testicles in her fear and her panic while he was trying to rape her. It was a reflex to protect herself.

No one is saying that if I am raped, I should walk around looking for my rapist and bite his testicles off.

What we are saying is that this incident happened to happen and frankly, yes. I felt he deserved nothing less.

But she did not purposefully bite his testicles off as a form of revenge or punishment. It happened in the struggle but chances are she isn't feeling too guilty about hurting him.


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BJadeT
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That is pure self defence and it's damn good self defence too. There's a few people I would actually like to do that to, but I will of course restrain myself from walking up to them, pulling their trousers down and sinking my teeth in.
Actually, call me a sadist but there's a little tool that I've helped use on the farm for castrating male calves that doesn't cut them off, but just crushes the tubes with a satisfying crunch that would be excellent self defence.
OK, now I'm just being sick, and I apologise for that but I do love that tool.

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Beppie
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Well, I say good on her as well, given that it was done in defense. However, I will say that it was also somewhat unwise of her to actually go to the extent of biting them off as this would greatly increase the chance of her contracting diseases such as AIDS and Hepetitis.

I don't believe that castration should be used as a punishment for rapists, although I used to think that it would be marvelously fair. However, someone pointed out to me that rape isn't about the rapist having a penis and/or testicles, it's about power. The rapist could use a strap on, a cucumber or a candle, and the crime would be just as horrible.


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alaska
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quote:
Originally posted by Dzuunmod:
Do we cut off hands, for robbers, next? Can I take out your eye, if I don't like how you're using it on me?

I'm against violence as a form of punishment, and I'm against anyone taking the law into their own hands.


Dzun, I think you mixed up two thinks here: there is a giant difference between revenge (“taking the law in one’s hands” and the examples that you gave) and self defense.

I think you are mixing two thing up here Dzun, really. While –like you- I don’t agree with the columnist notion that this is a “feelgood story” – I don’t think any rape story is one. What I agree with though and which DOES make me nod in agreement is that this woman actively did something against what this man tried to do to her –she did not hurt him in revenge, but in self-defense.

I am against cutting hands off or against state administered castration (Beppie said some very wise words here – you don’t need a penis or testicles to rape someone) and against the death penalty as well. I think modern states shouldn’t use ancient revenge type punishments, I believe in attempting rehabilitation and locking people up for good if necessary and am happy to live in a state that does not have the death penalty. – But in self defense, I am willing to accept lots of actions. Like this one.

Self Defense means that if you are faced with a direct, immediate attack (in the legal sense that means an action that is not legitimated by another law and that is against any of your rights, such as life, physical integrity or freedom), you are allowed to counter that attack. You can do whatever is suitable to counter that attack, you can use any “objects” that you have at hand, but you have to know that you are doing this in defense, and in addition, the worth of the “object” endangered by the initial attack needs to be proportionate in regards to your action of defense (i.e. shooting a kid that’s up in my apple tree stealing apples is NOT self defense).
Without a doubt, as far as we can judge from what we’ve read, this is a CLEAR case of self defense. (and the scenario you described, BJadeT, i.e. walking up to someone and use a castrating tool on them, would NOT be self-defense at all).

The man tried to rape this woman, I think we can safely assume that he tried to force her to perform oral sex, and so she used the “weapon” she had – her mouth- and bit off his testicles, an action she probably knew was going to stop the attack (and hence be suitable) and IMHO also proportionate in regards to the initial attack. One might obviously argue about that, though, but for me, from a female point of view, it sure is.

Beppie made another good point – this sure was a VERY risky thing to do for the woman in regards to disease transmission (and again, I don’t even want to think about what it must be like to bite off a piece of someone), it just goes to show how horrible the rape situation must have been for her, if she was willing to do this and felt that this was the only way out.
I think there are other ways how to get out of rape situations (remember, rape isn’t about sex, but about power, so some people say that a simple “Okay, so let’s screw” and hence agreeing to the “rape” would make rapists stop), but if this was the only way out that this woman saw in her particular situation, I think no one here has a right to scream that this was revenge or that the rapist should be pitied because he has lost his testicles.

His fault, really. You jsut don't get yourself into a situation where someone might have to take extreme measures in self-defense.

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Dzuunmod
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Kitten, I gotta point out that while that may be true in your neck of the woods, if you look around the world, generally, the places with lower crime rates are the places that have less stiff punishments, and a bigger focus on rehabilitation. (Think Europe, Australia, Canada - with Singapore being an exception rather than a rule.) This had nothing to do with rehab. Maybe that guy had some serious problems that we don't know about. Maybe he was mentally ill, and hadn't taken his medication.

And I do think I can make the argument here about eyes and hands and such, because how do we know where punishments like this end? Who gets to make that sort of call? What sex crimes fit into the category where taking off the man's testicles is appropriate, in all of your opinions?

I suppose I'd have to know the exact situation that this woman was in before I could possibly okay behaviour like that, and I suppose we'll never know that.

And it also bothers me that it's quite possible that we aren't - as Alaska's article pointed out - getting the whole story yet.

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When you get off work tonight, meet me at the construction site, and we'll write some notes to tape to the heavy machines, like "We hope they treat you well. Hope you don't work too hard. We hope you get to be happy sometimes."
-the Weakerthans

[This message has been edited by Dzuunmod (edited 05-24-2001).]


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Heather
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I think the best thing I can add here -- especially as a former rape victim who did suffer long-lasting effects from her attackers -- is that if this WAS self-defense, I have no question that it was reasonable and effective.

And considering the fact that this sort of damage to the testicles is not irreperable, even if secondary surgery isn't done, while things like permanent fertility problems or sexual dysfunction, chronic vaginismus, incurable STDs and STIs, and in cases like mine, permanent damage to the anus (don't mean to be overly graphic, here, just honest), on top of serious psychological issues, I would not say it is "equivalent" damage, even HAD it been retaliatory and not defensive (in which case, I wouldn't be supportive of it, regardless). It is, in fact, lesser.

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alaska
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quote:
Originally posted by Dzuunmod:
And I do think I can make the argument here about eyes and hands and such, because how do we know where punishments like this end? Who gets to make that sort of call? What sex crimes fit into the category where taking off the man's testicles is appropriate, in all of your opinions?

Again, Dzum, please differentiate here:
with self defense, A LOT is tolerated by law. Thankfully. I think if you are attacked, one should be able (within reasonable limits, as pointed out above) to do the first thing that is possible to counter the attack.

This wasn't a "punishment" (even though in effect, it is one this fellow won't forget for the rest of his life) but the RESULT of a self defense.
Yup, we haven't heard all the details yet, but the way this looks at the mo, this wasn't pre-meditated revenge or physical assault, but the woman's DEFENSE to attempted rape.

You know, in the end, I reckon it's quiet simple: if you don't want your testicles to be bitten off, dont try to rape someone. Easy.

And if someone still does it (outside self-defense): Sue.

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"We must become the change we want to see."
Mahatma Gandhi

[This message has been edited by Alaska (edited 05-24-2001).]


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BruinDan
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quote:
Originally posted by Dzuunmod:
Kitten, I gotta point out that while that may be true in your neck of the woods, if you look around the world, generally, the places with lower crime rates are the places that have less stiff punishments, and a bigger focus on rehabilitation. (Think Europe, Australia, Canada - with Singapore being an exception rather than a rule.)

Whoa...easy there, tiger. If you really want to get technical (and I'm not sure you do, but I'll bring this up anyway just for giggles), it would appear that your "neck of the woods" is the exception to the rule. Countries like Singapore, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, Afghanistan etc. who all employ harsh and often draconian punishments for simple offenses; do, in fact, have a far lower crime rate than the United States, Europe, Australia, and Canada. Specific statistics (try saying that three times fast!) can be found in INTERPOL's International Crime Statistics Journal from August of 2000.

And the argument about eyes, hands and such is made by legislators. In the state of California, self-defense states that a person who is being attacked may defend him/herself with an "appropriate and reasonable level of force, not exceeding that which is being employed by the attacker." Basically, if you are being punched in the face, you may not shoot the person in the head. However, the State finds homicide justifiable in certain cases when there is a "reasonable sufficiency of fear" that you are about to lose your life. So if you are attacked by a man with a gun and you kill that person, there is a chance it may be considered justifiable out here.

In the case of this attack (although I have heard from one of my old Sergeants that there is more to this story than we know...) if the woman was, in fact, raped...her level of force used to defend herself would be consistent with local laws governing self-defense and justifiable force. But it will take a lengthy court proceeding to find out what really happened.

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lemming
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quote:
Originally posted by BruinDan:
...it will take a lengthy court proceeding to find out what really happened.

I was going to stay out of this one, but if I may cynically interject, I'm quite certain that "what really happened" is hardly ever presented in court. it's all in how the lawyers reconstruct the case.

If the woman was indeed being raped by the man, and she did indeed bite off the man's testicles, I with my layperson's knowledge would *have* to conclude this was well within reasonable self-defense against the act being committed on her. How could it not be?

(Also, I'm seeing definite parallels to the Lorena/John Wayne Bobbitt case, here. Wasn't that generally agreed upon as a "mate rape?" What are the differences in prosecuting acquaintance rapes, which are generally more complex, and non-acquaintance rapes? Wherever is my sex-offender-specialist friend when I need her?)

Again, every new comment just brings up more questions.

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want to know the inner lemming? read her diary at http://innerlemming.diaryland.com/.
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Rizzo
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Okay, I'm going to stick up for Dzuun, here (strains of "Stand by your Man" fill the air...*shudder*).

Erm... now I have to agree that the distinction between self-defence and taking the law into your own hands is an important distinction. But what I take issue with is not the act itself, but the light-hearted attitude taken by the article and some posters toward it.

This "Right on sister! I've always wanted to do that!" attitude is part of what gives feminism a bad name. We would never accept a man saying "Oh yeah, I've always wanted to mutilate a woman's genitals."

I also see a hint of hypocrisy in the fact that most of you are against humiliation tactics ("a convicted sex offender lives here") for sex offenders, but think there's nothing wrong in making light of severe physical pain suffered by them.


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alaska
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I second that, Lem.

Dan, don't tell me you think that the US legal system is good at bringing out the truth in a courtroom.

I just say: OJ Simpson.


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Heather
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I'm going to add something else, under the assumption that this was in self-defense, especially since I am having a REALLY hard time picturing how it would have all gone down like this if it wasn't.

Speaking as a rape victim, what I can let those who haven't been know is that there really isn't time to think, "Gee, what can I do?" while a rape is going on or ensuing, nor do most people's brains even work that way when their lives or bodies are threatened.

You just ACT -- in any way you can, in any way the adrenaline in your body and your panicked logic will allow. And just like it would not be illogical to try and block someone's fist if they were trying to punch you in the face, it is not illogical to bite testicles when a penis is assaulting your mouth.

I agree that light should be made of NONE of this. It isn't funny or wonderful or cool no matter what.

On the other hand, rape victims having a moment of feeling good knowing that a rapist was not only stopped, but may for a moment have understood how a sexual attack feels is completely understandable. I fully confess that reading that story, I felt that way myself for a moment, and was very glad -- and always am -- to hear that a woman effectively countered a rape before it happened in full, especially because during a sexual assault -- or any assault -- it is very hard to act at all under great duress and fear.

People, on the other hand, thinking anything justifies sexual assault -- to men or women -- and cheering it on, need to do some evaluating.

Just be sure, though, that in your concern for this man -- IF this was in self-defense -- you take a minute to recognize who the victim is, no matter what counterattack a perpetrator has suffered. Unless this woman found this man and attacked him, HE was the person initiating an assault.

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My epitaph should read: "She worked herself into this ground."
-- Kay Bailey Hutchinson

[This message has been edited by Miz Scarlet (edited 05-24-2001).]


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alaska
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very well said, Heather.
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BruinDan
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Yup, lemming and Alaska, you are both very right...what the hell was I thinking?

Indeed the US Court System leaves a lot to be desired, and Alaska is absolutely right about OJ being a prime example.

I guess what I meant by that boneheaded statement was that it is only in Court, where testimony is under oath, that the rest of us are able to hear both parties' view on what they claim happened. (Although people under oath routinely lie anyway) Right now we are dealing with one woman's statement and one media outlet's story of the incident. It'll be interesting to hear the other side of the story if it gets publicized.

And by the way, very good point Rizzo.

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alaska
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That's how I like my Dan, agreeing with me! Good boy! *lmao*
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towel42
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Miz Scarlet beat me to it. Very well said, indeed. I was going to say, if we accept everything said in the article as true, and this woman was about to be raped, she probably didn't think to herself, "I know what'll really make him hurt! I'll bite off his testicles!". Her line of thought was probably non-existant...she was probably just acting out of fear and instincts.

So like Heather said. She's far more eloquent than I. I don't really agree with castration as a punishment for rapists, because I don't believe in the death penalty. Accepting one "eye for an eye" judgement but not another would make me a hypocrite. I'm not going to lie and say I would go protest at a jail or courthouse if a rapist was about to be chemically castrated, but if I made the laws, I certainly wouldn't make that one of them.

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[This message has been edited by towel42 (edited 05-24-2001).]


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LilBlueSmurf
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I'm glad she was able to take action ... doing anything in her power to get him the heck off of her.

In my personal situation, i froze. There was nothing logical going through my mind ... anything that could really stop what was happening or anything that i felt wouldn't make things worse. I guess i didn't trust myself to do anything worth it, so i did nothing. I dont know how often that happens tho ... ??

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BruinDan
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quote:
Originally posted by LilBlueSmurf:
In my personal situation, i froze. There was nothing logical going through my mind ... anything that could really stop what was happening or anything that i felt wouldn't make things worse. I guess i didn't trust myself to do anything worth it, so i did nothing. I dont know how often that happens tho ... ??

Smurfie...if it helps, it happened that way in every single rape case I worked on.


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Lin
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I would have to say you are right Rizzo. We shouldn't have made light of the subject at hand but I think Heather said it all.

It felt good reading that article, I do not deny it. Knowing that somewhere, a woman managed to stop herself from becoming another victim of rape. And that means alot.


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PoetgirlNY
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Smurfie, that happened to me to. I was raped a year ago-forced oral sex. I completely froze, but for the full twenty or so minutes(by my watch) that the attack lasted, I was trying very hard to breathe, not throw up(gag factor), and I was thinking about how much I should just bite down. I didn't. I was too afraid that he would beat me up, or throw me into the East River, which we were about twenty feet away from. When I read that story, my first reaction was, "Good for her. I wish I had done that." I don't feel comfortable with that at all. If it had been an automatic self-defense reaction thing, I would be fine with it. But the idea that a year later I'm wishing that I had . . . it just doesn't sit well. I think I'm also very hard on myself because I'm a self-defense peer educator. Looking back on that night there were a trillion things I could have done differently that wouldn't have landed me in that situation, and even once I was in that situation, I had the self-defense skills to get him off of me, hurt him to whatever extent I would need to, and run. I just froze and I was too scared to do anything . . . I don't know how long it will be before I forgive myself for that.

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Dzuunmod
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I suppose my feelings were expressed in haste, because, as that goofy Rizzo girl pointed out (and I can call her that, 'cause she's sitting next to me) I felt the making light of the situation was inappropriate. You're right, many of you, when y'all disagree with me on this one.

But BruinDan, I was sort of only thinking of democratic, industrialised countries (I'm sure you'll acknowledge the difference that makes). I thought that would've come across in my post, and I'm sorry for any confusion. That's how I was able to assert that Singapore is the exception, rather than the rule.

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When you get off work tonight, meet me at the construction site, and we'll write some notes to tape to the heavy machines, like "We hope they treat you well. Hope you don't work too hard. We hope you get to be happy sometimes."
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Mophead
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I don't think it was a "feel good story," but it was definitely good for that woman to defend herself. And Dzunn, if someone was trying to rob or beat me, and in panic I cut his/her hands off, I wouldn't feel bad about it after.

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