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» Got Questions? Get Answers. » SCARLETEEN CENTRAL » Sexual Ethics and Politics » How Not to Be Pro-Choice

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Author Topic: How Not to Be Pro-Choice
Gumdrop Girl
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i consider myself to be pro-choice, but i've seen some things lately that made me quite furious. imho, being pro-choice is not about having a complete disregard for life (despite what more reactionary anti-choice -- which i differentiate from pro-life -- groups would have you think). it's about the right to make decisions, even really difficult ones.

Well, some pro-life people showed up to our campus a few weeks ago with their signs and pamphlets. The pictures of late-term fetuses are quite misleading. yes, late-term abortions happen, but they make up only a **very** small percentage of the procedures actually performed. And they usually are performed for good reasons suchs as ectopic pregnancy.

Well, those people, as misguided as they may be had full right to be there. And no, I was not offended by their propaganda.

However, I was offended by the people who reacted to their display by making picket signs of their own saying "I Love Abortions." That, imho, was in extremely inexcusable *poor* taste and makes for a bad case for those of us who believe in a woman's right to choose. Abortion (and correct me if I have been so completely wrong all this time) is not a choice made lightly. Women don't simply go have abortions recreationally (again, correct me, if you are an abortion hobbyist or something). So, to see so-called pro-choice demonstrators acting so crudely and mockingly simply makes me sick.

anyway, your thoughts and arguments if you think i am so completely off base today.

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The Second Law of Thermodynamics states that the universe is constantly moving to a state of greater entropy s, therefore, delta s is always greater than zero.


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Bobolink
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I don't think Gummie is off base. Abortion is not a procedure to be entered into lightly. I find that I am only pro-choice because the alternative is so much worse. I'm old enough to remember when abortion was illegal in the United States and Canada and the business was done by either medically unqualified back alley butchers or by humane doctors who risked their careers to help women.

Women will choose, whether or not it's illegal. If it's made illegal, the only thing that will change is what method they will chose.

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The most exciting phrase in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not "Eureka!" ("I found it!") but rather "Hmmm... that's funny...."

- Isaac Asimov

[This message has been edited by Bobolink (edited 05-17-2001).]


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LilBlueSmurf
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I agree w/ Bobo here ... And ya got me thinking too, about when i came to the conclusion that i was pro-choice.

I remember watching a movie w/ my mom ... and part of it was a woman that was trying to abort a baby. She was using a coathanger. She wasn't successful and decided to go to one of those illegal doctor guys to do it. They put her on the kitchen table and did it that way. He didn't wash his hands or anything ... And he left as soon as he was done. Needless to say, she hemoraged. I don't remember if she made it past that or not ... but it was just really really disturbing ... especially when i was no older than 12 at the time.

So then came the 20 questions, to my mom. She answered them the best she could ... and told me that in those times, abortion was illegal. So this woman felt she had to get rid of the baby her own way ... and she did. That's a really scary thought

Everyone is entitled to the own opinion. However, there's a time to keep your mouth shut too. Trying to offend someone b/c their views don't go along w/ yours is just not fair. And it's mean.

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"Did you know ... you can have intercourse on Saturday and get pregnant on Monday?? Don't know how? :confused: ASK!


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morganlh85
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I agree. Most pro-lifers have the completely wrong idea about the pro-choice stance. We don't advocate or encourage abortions. All we say is that people should have the CHOICE to carry a baby to term or not.

Personally, I don't think I could ever have an abortion, for religious and personal reasons, but I don't think that my stance should be everyone else's stance. Some old, white republican guy in Washington shouldn't be able to decide what I do with my baby. If YOU think abortion is wrong, then YOU don't have an abortion. Why does the whole world have to follow the same moral guidelines as you?


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morganlh85
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I also find it quite ridiculous when pro-lifers go around saying abortion is wrong, but then say that teens shouldn't be able to get birth control without parental permission, or there should only be abstinence education in schools, or no sex ed at all. If you don't like abortion, why don't you try to PREVENT pregnancy in the first place?! Preventing sex just won't work.
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lilnerd
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Well, Gumdrop, I completely agree with you. I am pro-choice through & through, but that doesn't mean I'm advocating Abortion! I am pro-choice not pro-abortions. That is most definitely in poor taste. And THIS is what makes people who claim to be "pro-choice" look bad on our part.

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"nothing's quite the same now - I just say your name now - but it's not so bad - you're only the best I ever had"


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Juice
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I agree with almost everything that has been said. "I love abortions" is a really awful thing to say because I'm sure no one has an abortion for the fun of it! Even the many women who have had abortions and are totally happy with their decision, I highly doubt any of them "love abortions"! It's not a happy thing to have to go through for anyone!
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Daniel
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This is just a minor abortion-related quibble, I was wondering is someone could set the record straight with me once and for all... even if it off-topic. (I didn't think such a question required a new topic, sorry for thread-jacking)

Are all/ most forms of the birth control pill abortofacients (sp?) ? I mean, is one of their functions stopping zygotes from implanting, or am I thinking of something else?


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Gumdrop Girl
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glad ot be of service, daniel.

the Pill, (estrogen/progesterone combination) works by thickening cervical mucus to block sperm and prevents ovulation by suppressing luteinizing hormone. thus, no egg, no implantation, so therefore, if you consider life to begin at fertilization you can't call that any for of abortion.

the Morning-After Pill (Emergency Contraception), however is different. It is a megadose of estrogen and progesterone (similar to the Pill). MAP works by making the uterus an inhospitable place to implant. the cell mass, fertilized or not, can't stick to the uterus, and thus dies. Depending on your outlook on what life is, this may or may not be a problem for you. However, considering that only 1 in 3 fertilized morulæ implant in normal instances of conception (and that's not even counting those that spontaneously abort themselves later), I don't consider this to be anything resembling terminating a pregnancy.

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The Second Law of Thermodynamics states that the universe is constantly moving to a state of greater entropy s, therefore, delta s is always greater than zero.


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Celtic Daisy
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I think that's horrible. I was talking to someone about how i thought that what Bush is doing with the abortion stuff, and all that was really wrong. The person asked me if i was pro-abortions.

No one is pro-abortion, and they shouldn't say they are. I am pro-choice. I wouldn't go around carrying a sign that says i love abortions. That seems kinda sick to me.

THese things tend to get outa hand a lot of the time, and a lot of weird and inappropriate things are bound to happen.

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-Miss Bif Naked


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Lin
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Oh that was just terrible.

And honestly, it would have made me sick and very furious as well. Those people who did those disgusting picket signs are actually representing everyone who is pro choice and that is something they should have thought about first.


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Gaffer
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I was under the impression that ectopic pregnancies would be fatal within a month or two of becoming pregnant. But I agree that no abortion is taken lightly.

[This message has been edited by Gaffer (edited 05-17-2001).]


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Gumdrop Girl
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gaffer, ectopic pregnancy is any sort of pregnancy that occurs outside the uterus, not just the fallopian tubes. fallopian tube pregnancies are especially dangers, though, as you were led to believe.

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The Second Law of Thermodynamics states that the universe is constantly moving to a state of greater entropy s, therefore, delta s is always greater than zero.


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John Doe
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Personally, I go along with Clinton's formulation. Abortion should be safe legal and rare. i do think we need to do a bit of work on the rare side. The people who are anti abortion and anti birth control just plain perplex me. It is just so damm nonsensical. On the other hand I do find it very disturbing that couples have to spend $40,000 on advanced fertility programs in a desperate attempt to have a kid, or wait for 8 years to be able to adopt a kid from the U.S. or spend $10,000 and travel over to the former USSR to adopt a kid, when so many kids are being litterally thrown down the drain. Back alleys are not the answer, but more support for women who decide to bring their pregnancies to term and then give the kids up for adoption makes lots and lots of sense.
I would however like to point out that on the choice side, it is only the woman who has the choice. the prosepective father has no say in the matter. If he wants the kid, and she doesn't he is out of luck, the kid is aborted and there is nothing he can do about it. If he doesn't want it, but she does, well he doesn't have to live with it, he just has to pay child support for the next 18 years. he doesn't have a choice about that either.

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KittenGoddess
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Actually, I spent years with people who were anti-birth control/anti-abortion, and it's really much simpler to understand than you think sometimes. In my experience, the philosophy seems to generally be that sex should occur only in marriage. The reason sex exists is to produce children. Therefore, within marriage, there is no need to have birth control because you're supposed to "be fruitful and multiply". By introducing something like birth control, man is messing around with the way God intended things to be. I know that's not what all people who have that philosophy think, but that seems to have been the reasoning I've encountered.

~KittenGoddess

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"Fere libenter homines id quod volunt, credunt. Men willingly believe what they wish."
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John Doe
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Yeah I know, its the "every sperm is sacred" argument. Yes absolute abstenece will reduce the number of abortions to zero, but is that really likely to happen. If you are going to get wet, wear a raincoat.
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LilBlueSmurf
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I agree w/ you John Raincoats are defineatly a good idea ...

The only problem i have w/ the "remain abstinent until marriage" thing is that some parents scare their kids into that. And then sex happens anyway. They don't get protection and take care of their bodies the way they should for fear of their parents finding out ... and then in turn, being kicked out of their parents' house. So, in my eyes, it's really the parents' here that are at fault. If kids are going to have sex, they might as well do it safely. And unless you're gonna put a chastity belt on your daughter and pema-glue your sons penis to his leg, sex is going to happen.

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For I am a bear of very little brain and long words bother me.
~ Winnie the Pooh


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JunkiePanda
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i go to a highschool that is OVER RUN with white ring conservative white christian morality. i am staunchly pro-choice and feel that is a woman decides she wants to have a baby she can and if she decides she doesn't want a baby that is also her choice. i am constantly bombarded by kids showing me brochures on partial birth abortions and even had someone tell me that i was going to hell for being pro-choice. one kids came to school with a PLASTIC ABORTION...it was a plastic replica of what a fetus looks like when it is aborted. i told him that any pregnant women who lived near the factory where that was made breathed in any of those fumes he might have been contributing to he death of a baby himself. we need to educate people on the fact that it is a RIGHT to abort pregnancies.
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LILITH_01
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You know why the bush administration is attacking abortion sex ed and birth control? this is just a theory but i think they're trying to get that "all american" dream. You know kids the sweet subserviant wife who's saved herself for marriage. Girls who dont know how their own bodies work and all they've learned about was abstience. Boys as well. No sexual freedom or expression. (Feels vomit go up throat) Why do i think this people like John ashcroft and Jesse helms thats why.
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Gumdrop Girl
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hey now, as much as you may disagree with them and dislike them, keep an open mind. by that, respect opinions and avoid bashing on groups, even if they are conservative.

with that said, i don't like seeing the partial birth photos. i know that's a distorted representation of termination, as they represent a very small number of the procedures actually performed. and having the plastic models is also tactless. but i respect their right to demonstrate in that manner so long as they recognize my right to disagree with them.

the point of my original post was to demonstrate that there is a distinction between what is pro-choice and what is pro-abortion, and how demonstrators who aimlessly attack groups they oppose (i.e., pro-lifers) just for the sake of opposing them often reflect poorly on the people who genuinely agree with a cause (i.e., being pro-choice).

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i use angst


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JunkiePanda
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i am a definate pro-life pro-choicer...i am all for life in every way! but if you decide that an abortion is the best way for you...then i respect that decision.
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Dzuunmod
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You summed it up pretty well, there, Gumdrop.

Now, if someone would only explain that concept to the boneheads in the student union at my school.

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When you get off work tonight, meet me at the construction site, and we'll write some notes to tape to the heavy machines, like "We hope they treat you well. Hope you don't work too hard. We hope you get to be happy sometimes."
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Gumdrop Girl
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dzuunmod, oh dear. same thing happens here all the time. berkeley high school banned the army from recruiting on campus. air force ROTC demos were picketed by the marxist club in berkeley (they're not even on campus). and i won't even go into what happened to me at the a.a. rally again.

keefer is a "libertarian-marxist?" maybe it's my political bias kicking in, but dang, i have a hard time reckoning both of those in the same statement.

anyway, i hope someday people will really know the meaning of an open mind.

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i use angst


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Dzuunmod
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I really do think that our schools have much in common Gumdrop.

This Keefer fellow really is quite a character. From what I know of him (and since he started trying to shut down the newspaper I write for, I know way, way too much about him), he basically likes the state to stay out of the way completely on social matters, but he also wants a state that provides more than adequately in matters of finance (like welfare, health care, etc...).

I'm so tired of this friggin' student union.

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When you get off work tonight, meet me at the construction site, and we'll write some notes to tape to the heavy machines, like "We hope they treat you well. Hope you don't work too hard. We hope you get to be happy sometimes."
-the Weakerthans


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