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» Scarleteen Boards: 2000 - 2014 (Archive) » SCARLETEEN CENTRAL » Relationships » Yet another LDR... (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Yet another LDR...
The Confused One
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Hey, so I'm 17+ now. The bf is 22+. This LDR has been going on for about a year now. And this is my very first relationship. We met online in a browser game's chatroom last year Jan. We have never met face to face. We chatted for quite a bit and slowly fell in love. I made the first move, confessing to him in July '10. He told me he felt the same way.

In Aug, he decided, okay, we'll make it a relationship. Things went well (REALLY well) until Feb. It started on Valentines Day. He was too busy to chat, so I left him alone, thinking it's just his usual busy thing. But for the next few days, the same happened. I, of course, asked him why, but he never fully explained. Kept telling me the same stuff that still left me puzzled.

After a while, he completely stopped talking to me. I tried everyday, saying hi when he comes online and saying night when I have to go. But no words came from him. Finally, I asked if he were avoiding me, and he said yes. Of course, I was upset and we fought. This all happened for an entire month. Maybe more. But we finally made up when he was coming to the end of his dissertation, which he says, was the reason he avoided me. Things improved after that. We even finally tried cybersex. And it was a success.

Then the next day, his final exams started. Of course, I left him alone, wishing him good luck as often as I could and that's it. His exams ended on a Wednesday. On Friday, he had to go for a family thing for a week, so he told me he will not have time to chat until after that trip. Okay, fine, I let him be.

Then he came back... And never made any effort to start chatting... I thought he would be excited to chat with me again, after that 3 weeks of no chatting. But I didn't complain, I gave him his space, thinking he needs to unpack and resettle down. A week after he came back passed... I told him I was getting lonely, and his excuse was that because he had to spend so much time at the comp during his dissertation, he wanted to avoid as much as possible. That, to me, sounded odd. But still, I said okay.

On the same chatroom that we met, I caught him many times, chatting away but ignoring me. And in that same chatroom, I was recently insulted and got pissed, so announced that I was leaving that chat. He called me stupid and pathetic for doing that and I told him "Fine, guess I'll just stop talking completely".

He said that to me last Friday, in the morning, right after I woke up. I was hurt and my day was ruined before it began. Until now, he hasn't said a word to me. Now, I'm wondering. What is his problem? I read that article by Joey on LDRs. That calmed me about the cheating part. But still, it makes one wonder, if he is still interested.

I'm stuck in Malaysia and he is in Wales. He's currently waiting for his results to see if he graduates and gets that job he applied for. Our parents don't know. I am in no position to send him any sort of gift in the mail thing and he's never sent me any either, though he is definitely capable (though it'd be hard to receive something strange with my nosy parents around).

I should also mention that I got my laptop and so, webcam, in March. He refuses to get a set himself. So I ended up doing a one sided vid chat with him everytime we chatted. That cybersex we did was on his mum's "borrowed" laptop (only once). Am I wrong to think about the possibility of him just taking advantage of me? Do I give him a third chance and continue believing that he loves me, as he always tells me? What do I do?

Sorry for this being long, but I don't know how else to explain the current situation. And yes, I've taken all the precautions of an online LDR at the start.

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The Confused One
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"he wanted to avoid *the computer* as much as possible"

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Wheeeeeeee!

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Heather
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One of the toughest things about online-only relationships is that it can be really iffy to get really deep into them before you actually meet that other person. And of course, one of the tough things about that is when you're young and/or without a lot of extra income, that can be very hard to make happen even if and when both people want it to.

So, if I could turn back time with this one, my best advice would have been not to get SO serious into this when it was only online. But, of course, we can't unring a bell. Just might be something to think about for the future, though.

Ultimately, you're going to need to ask this guy all of these questions and see what his answers are to them. It sounds likely to me that he's doing what I call "the slow fizzle," where he's just kind of blowing this off more and more to let it go rather than discussing a breakup or being active about a split, but without hearing from him, it's really hard to say, and I could be totally wrong about that.

I also can't know if this has anything at all to do with the cybersex you had or not. It might, but it just as easily could either be a coincidence with timing, or it could be about that in a way different than what you're thinking. For instance, it may be that he had those experiences with you to see how he felt about them, in trying to sort out his feelings about this relationship, rather than trying to take advantage.

But ultimately, to know any of these answers, you're going to need to talk to him if you're not interested in just letting this whole thing fizzle out yourself.

That said, I do want to mention that someone calling you names is someone I'd strongly suggest you reconsider being involved with at all. That's not healthy and everyone deserves better, including you.

So, what do you want to do about this? Do you want to just let it go, as it seems like you probably could with him doing same, or do you want to try and find these things out from him so that choices around this relationship can be made more clearly and actively?

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Djuna
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Hi there, Confused One! [Smile]

I want to add that I'm hearing from you that this is a lot more one-sided than you would like, both in terms of video chats and him not contacting you at all for a lot of the time. Too, I'm hearing that the decision you're trying to make is again about whether or not you should give him another chance, when it sounds like he's not willing to give anything for you, you know?

You're never wrong to question whether or not someone is treating you well. You absolutely have the right to put yourself first and make sure your needs get taken care of. [Smile]

I'm curious about what you mean by "all the precautions of an online LDR" - do you want to talk some more about what that involves for you?

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“In a strange room, before you are emptied for sleep, what are you. And when you are filled with sleep you never were. I don’t know what I am. I don’t know if I am or not... how often have I lain beneath rain on a strange roof, thinking of home.”

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The Confused One
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Well, for starters, I made sure that theres a high chance of us meeting, otherwise, I wouldn't have let myself fall in love. He was the first to give me his full name and qualifications and even casual photos of him, I didn't give him mine until much much later. After we confessed, he gave me his number first. But I couldn't call him because I don't have my own phone (dad pays the bills) and I was afraid of my parents finding an oversea number. Still, after he called, it half confirmed that he was real (afterall, it could have been a bot voice). We talked on phone another 2 times after that. Then we stopped because his call plan apparently stopped giving him free oversea calls...

It was also a long time before I dared send him a half naked pic(underwear). He replied with a pic of him in the bath *unsure*. But anyway, we didn't reveal anything else, but those pics increased our attraction (well, to me, I know for sure). He seemed to be a real gentleman, telling me that he wants to wait till we're actually together to strip fully.

That was all last year. I was doing my O-levels and had planned on furthering my studies in UK after my results. That didn't work out cause of the fee increase and stuff. After that, he started hinting that he wanted to see me and I didn't feel any desperation. Then I got my laptop and those hints got more obvious. He started asking why I refused to go on cam when I wasn't dressed or anything like that. It took a long while, but I finally felt confident enough. That was last month, I think. Shortly after was the cybersex. He kept telling me stuff like "Don't worry, being shy is fine", etc, still sounding like a gentleman, but also, in another view, scary.

He also told me that his sexual attraction definitely increased after seeing me. Now, when I look back, it really does sound like he just wanted to take advantage, but again, I don't know.

Reason why I haven't asked him all these questions is because like from before, he will refuse to tell me something that makes sense. He'll tell me an excuse that doesn't and stick to it like glue. We're quite the opposites and I'm the couch potato, so I know he's an outdoor person, but still, not being able to talk for a few minutes a day? He didn't used to be this much of an arse. I know people can change, but isn't this too much?

We're also both the types to hold grudges, so I don't think we can both let this go easily. As proven, he can keep quiet for as long as he wants. I'm very clingy and dependant, I can't keep quiet. While an email to him telling him exactly how I felt the last time worked, I have a feeling it won't this time...

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Heather
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Just for future reference, I'm not sure what could illustrate what chance people would have online of meeting. Knowing each others identities doesn't, I'd say, mean that's any more or less likely. So, again, we live, we learn, and not critiques at all of how you did things here, but in the future, I'd advise not getting too serious before you meet someone. It just seems like the better move when it comes to protecting our hearts.

I do think that is sounds like he HAS been letting this go. He's talking to you less and less, he's having less and less contact. In other words, it really feels to me like he may be blowing you off. I know that really, really sucks if that's what's happening, and again, only he can tell you that for sure (if he contacts you), but I do think you might want to prepare yourself for that possibility.

I agree with you, some of the sexual stuff sounds kind of pushy to me, too. Additionally, on top of having called you names before, making excuses for behavior rather than taking responsibility doesn't suggest a healthy, happy relationship to me.

So, what do you WANT to do about this? What do you feel like you need? And how do you feel about (if it's an option) continuing a relationship that sounds like it might not be healthy or sound in the first place?

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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The Confused One
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That's the thing, I don't know what to do. I still love him, but I'm starting to think that all this was really just a fantasy. I want to give him another chance, but I also feel like it's time I be harsh, and yet, I don't want to... I mean, what if his excuses really are true? What if I'm just worrying for nothing and that worry in itself is the reason why he's avoiding me? I knew that I shouldn't get serious when we met. I know that even now, but... well, I guess things happened.

I want to know the truth, but at the same time, I don't know how to get it...

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Wheeeeeeee!

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Heather
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Whether or not what he's saying is true, it seems to me the fact remains that he's been blowing you off a lot, rather than finding ways to deal with the other parts of his life that need time in a way that doesn't make you feel left hanging.

Does that sound right to you?

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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The Confused One
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Sort of. A friend told me something similar when we had that month long fight. But still, how do I approach him? By tomorrow, it'll be a week since we last talked. I don't know what to do or say. Should I wait another week in hopes of him talking again? Afterall, he looks like he's way freer now, chatting a whole lot more. Or should I confront him now with an email? If so, how do I start it off?

I don't even know if he's aware that I'm sick, which I think is unlikely. I got sick too, at the end of that month long fight. Pretty much at a loss right now, since this is my first relationship...

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Heather
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Did he expressly ask for a set period of time away from you without talking?

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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The Confused One
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No. After I told him that I'll just stop talking, he didn't say anything else. Not a word from him after that

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Heather
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Then I don't see any reason to keep yourself in upset limbo like this. I'd go ahead and ask to talk with him.

In terms of what to say, what do you want to express? And where are you at with all of this? Is this a relationship you want to continue? If so, under what conditions? What do you need to make it one that works for you?

If you don't want to continue this, we can talk about what that conversation can look like, too.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Heather
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And if you're not sure about those options, spending some time with this piece might help you to clarify your feelings: http://www.scarleteen.com/article/crisis/should_i_stay_or_should_i_go

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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The Confused One
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Atm, I don't really know what I want either. All I know is that I DO want to try and continue, but not if he doesn't feel anything anymore. And I don't want to message him everyday and sit and wait and hope for his reply but it never comes. I also don't want him to keep things from me, the way he does. I don't feel any trust that way. He keeps telling me that I worry too much, and I don't know how I can stop worrying so much, especially when he doesn't bother to soothe my worries.

Theres also the problem with the webcam. He promised to buy a set when he gets his own place after graduation, since his job is in the Midlands, quite a distance from Wales. But, not knowing how things go in UK, I've no idea when that would be. So should I tell him that I want to stop doing vid calls until he gets his set and go back to how it was before I got mine?

Is it even okay to tell him all this in an email?

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Wheeeeeeee!

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Heather
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I think all of what you said here is really important and 110% okay to tell him however you two can communicate.

Mind, I think you might also want to address him telling you you worry too much. Again, that sounds very much to me like him refusing to take any responsibility. When someone is sexual with others outside an agreement not to be again and again, you have reason to not trust them. When someone blows you off all the time, you have cause to worry your relationship is tanking.

In other words, you're not worrying for no reason: his actions are a big part of why you're feeling the way you are, and he is responsible for those, not you.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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The Confused One
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Oh yeah, he also stopped sending me pics since that month long fight, while I'm going on cam for him almost daily. I've told him quite a few times that I missed his face, but he usually just snorts it off. It's hard to talk to him anymore, since all he does is avoid the things he doesn't like

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Wheeeeeeee!

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Heather
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Can I be really real with you? I'm hoping so.

Seriously, is this the kind of relationship you think you deserve? Does it look and feel like what you really want in a serious relationship? Do you think this person is even capable or willing to go about all of this very differently? Do you think this person is earnestly still invested in this relationship, and you, at all?

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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The Confused One
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It WAS something. Until this year started. I KNOW he can change. But I don't know if he still has feelings for me. I can understand that he's going through a lot right now, being in his last year of degree and graduating and all. I really thought things would be better after everything though...

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Wheeeeeeee!

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Heather
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When we're evaluating relationships, it's really important we try and stay in the present, rather than looking to the past. How something was often isn't how it stays or is now, and most of the time, new relationships always feel like something awesome when they're still new. It sounds like when this was something good was in the first few months, right? If so, you need to know that'll be true with almost every new relationship you're in: it's easy for things to be or feel great when a relationship is just starting.

And for sure, all of us have the capacity to change, but the more influential factor is if we have the willingness. So, does he want to be more communicative with you? Have this be less one-sided? NOT blow you off or blow off your feelings? Become more trustworhty? Does he WANT to be in an exclusive relationship with you? If you don't know the answers to these questions, I'd say you need to ask them of him so you can find out.

But of course, you also want to figure out how much time and energy and heart you're willing to put into this no matter what he says, especially since you make clear this is someone whose words often don't get followed up by matching actions.

[ 06-23-2011, 10:21 AM: Message edited by: Heather ]

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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The Confused One
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What do you mean exclusive relationship?

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Heather
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I mean that it seems like you have an agreement that he isn't sexual with other people, one he has kept breaking, right? I don't know what that agreement involves, but it seems like you have some expectation he isn't kissing or having sex with others, so I'm assuming that's because you have an agreement to be exclusive in those ways.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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The Confused One
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Well, yes, I expect that of him, but since he doesn't tell me much, I've no idea if he's being sexual with others. He told me that his previous relationships all ended because his partners keep cheating on him, so I expect that he won't do the same to me. But again, whether or not he's telling the truth or that he doesn't do it, I don't know. He also told me that his interest in sex is no longer there, but I don't know how much he is exaggerating

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Heather
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Well, if and when we have agreements or expectations with exclusivity, we need to communicate them and make sure we both know what we are agreeing to. We also do then need to be honest about if we are honoring those agreements or not.

I would also look at his actions with your expectations. I'm not sure why you're not expecting he will honor those agreements when at least twice, it's clear he hasn't. And in talking about his former partners, that's sounding a lot, to me, like him yet again putting responsibility for things unto everyone else.

You know, all I know about this guy and this relationship is what you've shared here, but based on that, this really doesn't sound like something or someone awesome to me. It sounds pretty dead-end.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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The Confused One
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I don't understand. Did I say he failed to honour those agreements?

A lot happened in this year of relationship. The reason why I still want to continue is because there were many times he made me happy, where he supported me. But it's recently that he became like this. I don't know if it's because he's in one of his moody times.

And the thought of those couples where the guy works so hard for the girl and end up not paying enough attention to her comes to mind. I don't want to assume anything negative about him until I know for sure, but I just don't know how to ask him in a calm manner

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Wheeeeeeee!

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Heather
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I am so, so sorry. We had another user post about an LDR in this same forum with a similar title whose boyfriend was being sexual outside their agreements and I confused her thread with yours. That happens every now and then, but I never want it to. My deepest apologies.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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The Confused One
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Ah, that's what I suspected. It's fine. It DID remind me to add in another question though, asking him if it's another girl

Can I PM you a draft of the email I managed to type out? I'm afraid of it sounding angry...

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Heather
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Again, my apologies. I hate it when I do that.

We don't have PMs enabled here for users for everyone's safety, I'm afraid. But if you can edit the email so that no one's names are in it, or nothing else personally identifying, I'd be happy to look at it here on the boards.

That said, I also would say that when we feel angry, there is nothing wrong with expressing our anger in healthy ways. So, if you feel angry, and that's why it sounds angry, unless you're doing things like calling him names, etc. I don't see why that wouldn't be okay. I think I'd be feeling pretty angry in your position, too.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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The Confused One
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I'm not all that angry, actually. I think I'm past that. I'm more of sad and depressed...

"So you're really not talking to me, huh. You know, I'm no longer happy about our relationship. A lot has happened and quite a bit are things I don't like. So I want to know, do you have anymore feelings for me?

If you do, then why, when I look back, all I see is a guy taking advantage of a girl? This relationship has been very one-sided a lot. I'm always the one to message you first, the one to wait for you everyday, the one to go on cam for you, while I don't get the same in return. You stopped sending cute pictures and you're always too busy to talk. Are you avoiding me again? If so, why? I really had thought things would get better between us after your exams, like you always tell me.

Don't you think this all sounds and looks familiar? It's happening all over again, even when you told me it wouldn't. I don't like this distance between us. And I really don't like that it's happening again. If you still have feelings for me, then are you really willing to be more communicative? Will you stop blowing me off like you've been doing? If talking everyday is too burdensome for you, then tell me what day and what time you can and want to talk. I don't like sitting and waiting everyday for your reply but it never comes or you'd tell me 'busy'.

You always tell me that I worry too much, but is it too much when you give me cause to worry? When you don't even bother trying to soothe my worries? Have you thought of how someone would feel by being ignored like this? Lets say we're already married. And lets say you're the one who comes home earlier than me everyday and so, cooks dinner and waits for me. Do you think you'd be happy if I don't return home on time everyday? And I make up excuses like my boss making me stay back late when really, I stayed back on purpose, just to avoid you, for whatever reason? Different scenario, but in my honest opinion, the same situation.

I know I'm needy and clingy. But I know how to back off if only you'd tell me. If you need space and time alone, then let me know and I'll leave you alone. I also know that I'm very dependant. If you want this relationship to continue, then are you able to support me? Not just physically, but emotionally as well?

What really happened to the guy I fell in love with? Or, is this all just to take advantage of me like first mentioned? Is there someone else? If there is, I can easily just back off and go my own way. I need honest answers to all these questions. I don't want to be left hanging."

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Wheeeeeeee!

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Heather
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Want to let me know what you want from me on this? Want suggestions or just support, or...?

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
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Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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The Confused One
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I dunno, anything I guess? Is it okay to send something like that to him? He's online now and is definitely free, so... Thinking I should send it to him before I sleep...

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Wheeeeeeee!

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Heather
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I think it's totally okay, but I do see some spots in it where I think you could be a more effective communicator and also some spots where it looks a little bit passive-aggressive to me that I think you could make tiny changes with and have something stronger and more clear.

If you want me to show you what I mean by making some edits you can look at, I'd be happy to do that for you.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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The Confused One
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Yeah, okay. I was never good at proof-reading

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Wheeeeeeee!

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Heather
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No trouble. So, I've just put in what I'd suggest changing or looking at and put my notes to you in parentheses after each para with a change.

"I am writing this to you because I need to communicate with you about this, but it seems like you have made talking together an option we don't have. I'm no longer happy about our relationship. A lot has happened and quite a bit are things I don't like. The core of what I want to know is: do you have anymore feelings for me?"

(He's not been willing to talk with you. He knows this, you don't have to ask about it. Just express what is happening without asking. With the other bits, again, we just want to cut to the chase and own our own feelings in letters like this.)

"I am asking that because I feel like you do not. For instance, I feel like I have been taken advantage of by you. This relationship has felt very one-sided to me. I'm always the one to message you first, the one to wait for you everyday, the one to go on cam for you, while I don't get the same in return. You stopped sending pictures and you're always too busy to talk. Are you avoiding me again? If so, why? You had expressed to me that you were avoiding me before because of your exams, and things would change after them, but so far, they have not changed."

(Again, I statements, clear statements, ownership on your part, ownership on his.)

"This feels familiar to me, like something is happening again, you assured me would not. I don't like this distance between us. And I really don't like that it's happening again. Are you really willing to be more communicative? What will you do to be more communicative? Will you make a commitment to stop blowing me off like you've been doing? If talking everyday is too burdensome for you, I am happy to schedule times to talk that work for both of us better. I don't like sitting and waiting everyday for your reply but it never comes or you'd tell me 'busy'."

(You want to ask what he's willing to do clearly, rather than being vague.)

"You always tell me that I worry too much, but is it too much when you give me cause to worry? When you don't even bother trying to soothe my worries? Have you thought of how someone would feel by being ignored like this? Lets say we're married. And lets say you're the one who comes home earlier than me everyday and so, cooks dinner and waits for me. Do you think you'd be happy if I don't return home on time everyday? And I make up excuses like my boss making me stay back late when really, I stayed back on purpose, just to avoid you, for whatever reason? Different scenario, but in my honest opinion, the same situation."

(That paragraph looks good to me, though I deeply hope you two are not talking about marriage. Seriously.)

"If you need space and time alone, then let me know and I'll leave you alone. I also know that I can be very dependent, but I will work on that. If you want this relationship to continue, then are you able to support me in that and in general? "

(I took out the needy and clingy bits, because people get more than way when someone else is blowing them off. I also just made that para more concise. )

"I feel like you are very different than the person I fell in love with. I understand that people and relationships change, though, so what I need to know is where we stand now and what I can expect from you moving forward and what you want moving forward. I need honest answers to all these questions. I don't want to be left hanging."

(I took out the stuff about there being someone else, etc. because you just need to start this conversation, you know? You can ask those things if and when he does talk to you. I also altered your first sentence because people DO change over time, and too, what you saw at first may have been what YOU saw in part, and now that you know him, you're seeing things differently. That happens all the time, so while you want to call someone out on crummy behavior, you also don't want to suggest people don't change and that our perceptions of people don't, either. You know?)

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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The Confused One
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Thanks, all that made sense. And lol, no, we're not talking of marriage just yet. We've only been concentrating on doing well in our studies and options on us meeting. I'll send the email now then

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Wheeeeeeee!

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Heather
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I'm around most of the day today if you need any more support.

--------------------
Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

Posts: 68290 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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