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Author Topic: Was I molested?/Is this normal?
Anne_Carnes
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Hello, I am new here but wanted to ask about this for a while.

Side note: this is long.

I am asking about this because since the incidents stopped with my dad, I've been in at least 3 other situations which were clearly abusive. I feel like what I experienced when I was younger might have set me up for the things I experienced as I got older..I have a lot of issues with sex, most of which my boyfriend is aware of, but it still makes things difficult for me.
I also don't know if anything that I am about to write is considered abusive or molestation, I just know that it made me feel gross and I feel uncomfortable towards myself for feeling that way because I usually try telling myself that it wasn't that bad and I am overreacting and I have a dirty mind.


Since I was about 5 or 6 I remember going through some really awkward situations with my father.

I was always afraid to be around him, so much so that when I'd see his car home in the evening I would bolt to my room and pretend I was asleep (which was never believable since it was 5pm).

My dad would normally yell/whistle/flick the upstairs hall light off and on until I finally came down, come up himself and tell me to come downstairs, or have one of my other family members come get me.

Why this was an issue for me is because every day when he came home, he would normally grab something to eat and sit in the living room, strip to just his underwear(which is gross but fairly normal for guys as far as I know) or sweat pants and make me sit on his lap. If I didn't want to he would drag me around until I complied.

As I grew older I started to feel a lot more uncomfortable about this because I was literally trapped and no one would help me.
I would say I had to go do homework or go to the bathroom and he would drag me back to him/block my way from leaving(we had a circular couch in the living room that closed off pretty much the whole room except for a small walking space next to "his seat")or if I jumped over the couch he would grab my leg and make me sit back on his lap, usually while he watched the Howard Stern or Anna Nicole show..which I hated in itself. He always talked about blonde women with big boobs and would take me out places and point women out and ask if I would like them as my new mom.

Whenever he'd sit me on his lap he would demand a kiss, which I would do(just on the cheek which I assumed was what he meant) but he would always complain-like literally complain and become angry because it "wasn't good enough".
He also used to bite me(ears,face, arms, legs, stomach) and pinch me(butt,sides,thighs,arms,etc)if I refused to keep trying, tried to leave, or anything of the sort.

If it was nighttime and I was in my night clothes(my mom usually put out a long t-shirt or a night dress and a clean pair of panties for me to wear to bed), he would lay me on top of himself face down and rub my butt. He'd touch my legs all over, feel them up to just the tip of where my vagina would be(not touching my vagina, just ending where it began-which always scared me), squeeze my butt, slap my butt, feel down my back and grab me.
Basically, he touched me the way my boyfriend touches me before we have sex..
I told him from the time I remember it starting to stop. He knew I got angry with him but seemed to enjoy it. He would usually laugh at me and man handle me down to the floor.

I eventually got to a point where I was angry because people(the rest of my family) knew about this and didn't do anything. I would go to my mom after I "escaped" and tell her how much I hate when he forces me to stay with him and tickles me until I'm crying and all I remember her responding with was "well it didn't sound like you weren't enjoying it" because...being tickled made me laugh and cry at the same time.

I partially feel as though my mom was jealous of me at times because I got the attention she wanted from him. The last time he even touched her was before I was born.
I feel like she was upset with me, and maybe that's why she didn't protect me. Or maybe she was just too depressed to realize what was going on. Or maybe it wasn't that bad..

Every day when I walked past him, he would whistle at me in a sexual way and grab or slap my butt.
He would pin me to the walls or the floors until I kissed him "just perfectly", I didn't know what he wanted me to do, but I would just repeatedly kiss his cheek until I eventually began hitting him and shoving him away. He'd usually finally let me go after a few more rounds of that, after I shoved him hard enough to get him off of me(keep in mind, he was over 250lbs and I was between the ages of 5 and 12, so I was really small compared to him).

My dad also used to play with my panties, which was a source of extreme embarrassment for me. He'd put them on his head and just play around with them and I always thought it was inappropriate.
One of the things that disgusted me most was how when I'd wear my night clothes and he'd be grabbing, stroking, squeezing, playing with my butt, he would often push my panties aside to feel the entire thing. He would trace his hands over me,get to the crease between my thigh and butt, trace that area, then resume to the legs, thigh, butt or back, butt,legs.

A really uncomfortable time for me was when we had first moved into my house, and I was looking for a toy I'd dropped down in between the sofa cushions. I didn't know my dad was behind me, and suddenly I felt someone on top of me while I was bent over. I tried wiggling him off of me because I was confused and uncomfortable, he was too heavy and I didn't understand why he was there, told him to get off and go away, and he just lightly began rocking himself on my back. He said "no, see, I'm stronger than you, you can't leave."
I was very young, about 6 or so, but I knew that what happened looked like something I'd seen happen before with animals and some porn that I had seen on his night stand while playing in his room with a friend.

I told my mom that dad humped me and she was really upset, but only for a minute. She just made an excuse for him and told me to tell her if it happened again.
I don't even know what he was trying to do, but that's what I felt like it was and he wouldn't get off of me until he heard someone come close.

When I was a bit older, maybe 9 or 10, whenever I would take a shower, he would complain for me to get out because that was during the time I started becoming self conscious and taking longer showers/trying out makeup and new hair styles..so basically I took too long. OR if I'd just be in there at an inconvenient time for him, he would start banging on the door for me to get out.

A couple times he opened the door on me while I was simply using the toilet, and I yelled at him to get out and he would just make fun of me for being so embarrassed.
I was going through puberty and had gained a bit of weight, which was a MAJOR concern to him(he'd put me on the scale every day and tell me how I was too fat- I was at 9, but being scrutinized daily didn't help any) and the last thing I wanted was for him to see me naked and complain, because I did that myself every morning.

He began to open the door when I was in the shower and yell at me, but only decided to come far in once, and that was one of the times when he didn't even bang on the door or yell for me to get out, so it was a total surprise.

I heard him come in and felt afraid, so I knelt down and put my hands over my boobs( I grew boobs when I was 8) and my vagina and knelt down because I couldn't cover myself properly with just my hands. He did end up opening the curtain and just staring down at me blankly. Then just left.
I didn't understand why that was necessary at all.
What was the point of that?

When I was 12, my parents had divorced and I went to visit him and remember he felt my leg up and down until he got close to my pelvic area again. I flinched when he moved his hand toward me because I knew what he was doing and he became angry but that still didn't stop him. This happened a bit.

Around the same time, I remember my dad massaging my back and I asked him to please stop because it was making me uncomfortable and he just told me not to be silly. In this case, I feel like I was being silly, but considering how he had acted, I didn't like him touching me at all.

When I began developing more and got my period I also remember him becoming very angry. He didn't like that I had breasts, thought they were disgusting, and called me disgusting for having my period as well, just like he used to my mom.

Needless to say, the touchy-feely thing stopped around 14. Though that could've been because at 14 I began refusing to see him.

I was always concerned that he would rape me. I remember writing in a journal when I was 11 or 12 that I felt like a rag doll and that I was scared. I was alone with him a lot at night as my mom worked nights and my brothers were away after a while(one brother stayed at a friend's and the other stayed at his girlfriend's a lot).

The only person that noticed anything wrong about the situation was my brother's girlfriend at that time, who actually confronted me about how I felt about the situation and how she thought it was inappropriate and didn't understand why my mom didn't do anything or think it was weird. She was molested when she was young, so I guess that may have fueled her even more. My brother said he hated it too, but no one stood up for me. They were the only ones who ever really said anything when I was older. At one point my brother's girlfriend asked me if I wanted her to stay with me at night or if I wanted to go to her house, but I think I declined because I didn't want anyone to consider the fact that I might be being hurt. To this day I don't want anyone to look at me and know the truth because I hate it so much. The worst part is that I deny anything happened, I can't think too much about it so I don't recall absolutely everything(but most of it I believe), and I become spacey even thinking about it. I can't let myself become upset about it or acknowledge that it might have been bad, so I usually tell myself that it wasn't that bad and I'm just being disgusting for thinking the way I am.


When I was younger my grandparents were concerned that I was being molested(because my dad had one charge against him for my oldest brother when he was below 7-but then my brother came out and said he was lying or something), but I denied ever being touched at all(even though my dad did a lot of things openly).

I thought that if no one else helped me or saw a problem with it, it must be ok. I still wonder that, which is why I'm here.
I've posted about this elsewhere, but I am still trying to get opinions because everyone is saying one thing(that I was molested) and I don't know if I believe it yet. I re-read my posts and check their validity-they are valid; I re-read the comments and check if I misunderstood something, I don't think I did as most of them are straight and to the point. But I don't know if I accept it.
I still don't believe it, even though I feel it.

I just hated the feeling of not being able to escape. Having an adult who you are uncomfortable with on top of you, being afraid of him, knowing he dislikes women because he openly talks about how stupid they are, knowing that he thinks I'm stupid, not being able to escape. Knowing he's a pervert, knowing he degrades you.

When I was little I used to play outside a bit, and my dad was obsessed with rape stories(he'd watch them all the time and make me watch too and tell me I had to so I wouldn't be stupid), which made me feel even more strange about him.
One day I was going towards a swing that my grandpa had made for me in my yard, and I felt someone sneak up behind me, put their hand over my mouth and eyes. I didn't know what to do.
I finally kicked, was turned around, and was shocked to see my dad.
"That's why you don't act so stupid," he said.

Also he would talk to me about "eating me" out a couple times. He mentioned it in front of my mom a few times and she just walked away.
When I'd respond with "what are you talking about?" he would just say "oh you'd like it" or something similar. WTF
I didn't even know what it meant until I was 15 or so..


Side note:
Sorry this is so long. And I do not know if it's considered molestation/abuse of any sort because my family saw it(I thought) and never helped me even went I'd call for someone. I began to feel like I was overreacting, and just dealt with it.

It's like being invisible to everyone except the worst person in the world. I sometimes still wonder if it's normal and OK, and maybe I'm just insane for feeling so dirty and horrible about it.
Maybe I have a dirty mind and see things inappropriately.

[ 03-09-2013, 02:14 AM: Message edited by: Anne_Carnes ]

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Kachina
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Oh, Anne. I'm so sorry this happened to you. I felt so sad reading this thinking about your you as a little kid who no one was protecting. I went though my childhood being scared of a parent, and having people not believe me or not think it was "serious" so I can relate how this feels for you.

I want you to know that how he acted was definitely not appropriate, and I think you know this too. Listen to your gut feelings on this - why would you have felt scared of him, have worried he would rape you even? No child should be fearing something like that from a parent! He clearly was abusive with his insults, his inappropriate, very sexual touching. It seems like he purposely avoided any touching of actual genitals so he could claim innocence or something, but it was still wrong, like you said, he touched you the way your boyfriend does before sex! Location of his touch is not so important as the intentions of the touching, and how you felt about it. It was clearly making you uncomfortable, and that is not right. Plus the sexual comments, no wonder you were uncomfortable and scared! I'm so sorry no one helped you and you felt so invisible [Frown]

Nothing is wrong with you, you did nothing wrong, and you are not "dirty minded" for feeling upset about this. Have you had any counseling about this to help you heal? This is a lot to deal with and I think you would benefit from in-person help.

Here's some helpful articles:
Blinders Off:Getting a Good Look at Abuse and Assault (you can see in this one that what your father did is classified as sexual abuse & incest)
http://www.scarleteen.com/blog/heather_corinna/2008/04/16/why_we_dont_always_know

[ 03-09-2013, 04:42 AM: Message edited by: Kachina ]

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~Kat
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Redskies
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Anne, I'm so sorry to hear this happened to you, but glad that you were able to write about it here. It's very brave to write everything you did above.

Personally, I think that each person has the right to call their own experiences what they want to call them. It's ok, and common, if it takes you some time and confusion to figure that out. I do want you to know, though, that what your father did was absolutely not ok and that it absolutely can be classed as molestation.

I'm so sorry to hear, too, that nobody really helped you. Please know that that doesn't mean that what your father was doing didn't matter, or that you shouldn't complain or that you didn't matter; it means that nobody around you was either able, willing or knew how to help. The problem was with them, not you.

It's almost universal that people who experienced something similar to what you did feel some kind of self-doubt and confusion about it, that maybe they're making a fuss and should just ignore it. It's deeply confusing if we're a child and someone who we should be able to trust - in this case, your father - is behaving in a way that is not caring, and is telling us that our feelings about it are wrong. It's also deeply confusing and harmful when we're a child or young person and someone is ignoring our own basic bodily autonomy in such a major way. No person, including a parent or authority figure, has the right to touch a child in ways that that child is not comfortable with, unless it is directly necessary for the child's health or wellbeing. Sometimes, the use and abuse of power over a young person (for example, not stopping something when asked, denying the young person's feelings) can be more harmful than the actual physical acts, because it teaches us that we don't have the right or ability to have our own wishes and to have them respected.

It's not your fault that you weren't able to tell your grandparents about what was happening. Your father had already taught you, by his actions, that you should just accept what he was doing, that it wasn't anything to complain about, and that he would just keep on doing it even if you protested. It's also very, very common that people who experience what you did feel a lot of shame about it, and that can be a powerful reason why we can't speak up.

You're among friends here, Anne. There are people here who experienced similar things to you as children or young people, and people who are educated and trained about the effects of it and how to help, and some people who are in both categories.

I'm so sorry to hear how much you're hurting about all of this at the moment; but I want you to know that, although it can be a very tough journey, with time and proper support and processing what happened to us and how we feel about it, we get to a much healthier and more at-ease place. The kind of pain and confusion you're feeling at the moment doesn't last forever.

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Anne_Carnes
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Kachina - Thank you.. You have brought up some very good points. Thank you for the links as well, they were very helpful. =)
I have had counseling and have also had in-patient treatment in the past due to an eating disorder and depression, but I've never, ever, spoken about any abuse.

While I would like to, and I have set up an appointment with my old psychologist, he doesn't do counseling, only administers drugs.

I was hoping that maybe he could refer me to a therapist or something, but I made the appointment in hopes of getting anti-depressants again, as it's interfering with college, sleeping, and my relationships with everyone.


Redskies - Thank you as well. I do feel most of the time that I am just whining, but I really do feel horrible at the same time.
I learned that when men continued to ignore my protests that it was just inevitable and something I had to deal with, and it has caused a lot of extra problems down the line such as being worn down and guilted into things I said no to, being molested again, and raped a handful of times by, well, my current boyfriend.

He supposedly didn't think it was rape at the time and has said that he was confused(even though I said no or he went for it without even asking a few times), and while I don't know how much I believe that, we've had many talks about it and I do believe that it's not something that will ever happen again.
Most of my problems stem from my childhood and the abuse in the very beginning of my current relationship, because when we first began dating I even remembered telling him how much I loved his hands because I knew they would never hurt me. He promised me that he wouldn't, even that he couldn't, and things changed quickly and drastically and I thought I lost the guy I fell in love with forever and I must have done something horribly wrong to deserve what was happening and how he had changed.

Again, while I would like to speak with a therapist, I don't know how I could ever talk to anyone face to face about it.

I do feel like what happened with my boyfriend was my fault and I hate my body even more because of it. I know that he knew I didn't want to do something and pressured me physically or mentally or went for it without asking, but he has said that he never considered it rape, along with a list of other things.
I still love him, and we've been good for 2 years now, but that partially makes me even more confused. I question how I am able to feel so terrible towards myself and who he used to be, and yet I can love the person he is now. I don't know why that's so confusing for me.
It's hard to accept what he did, because he seems like a completely different person now.
If I was anyone else and knew him even during the abuse, I would never believe myself, but especially not now since his attitude is so much kinder in general and he now openly acts proud to have me by his side.

I was also molested after a party before I met my boyfriend, and had at least 2 other guys make out with me when I told them straightforward that I didn't want to do that(I thought all of these guys were just my friends).

I feel like all of those incidents were my fault because I said no, but I felt like I was stuck in the situation and was afraid to leave.
When I was molested I planned to stay at the house of the friend who was throwing the party, but our mutual friend decided to stay as well. I didn't think I had any reason not to trust him.
I wanted to sleep out in the living room, and he followed me and repeatedly pulled my pants off-because I kept pulling them back up and telling him no, touched my boobs, kissed me and told me that I was the most fidgety girl he'd ever known..as if I wanted to be doing that.

I went into the spare bedroom and got into bed when I thought he had fallen asleep outside,but he hopped into the spare bed with me, started kissing me and put his hand down my pants and my brain went into "stupid self-conscious" mode, and I just froze. If I would have stayed up and locked myself in the bathroom or something that wouldn't have happened.
As my boyfriend has mentioned, with guys, you have to crush any hope they might have. Saying no isn't enough for most guys. They'll come right back and stick their hand down your pants like the previous incidents never happened..

I saw him a few more times when I went to see our other friend, and he'd conveniently end up alone with me and once put a knife to his neck and told me he'd cut himself if I didn't kiss him/ show him my boobs. I did kiss him, but not the other and he eventually left me alone.
Also, my fault for not telling our friend what was going on/continuing to see our friend without thinking of the possibility of this guy showing up.

The only person who does know anything about my childhood or past issues with "friends" is my boyfriend, but he does not know who any of the people were because I refused to tell him.

Thank you both for your support, understanding and a bit of clarity though.
I hope that I can open up to a therapist at some point due to the negative view I have of myself and my body, but I am just unsure how I would bring it up. I've always been shy, so talking face to face about something so personal makes me a bit nervous.

[ 03-09-2013, 11:40 PM: Message edited by: Anne_Carnes ]

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September
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I am sorry to hear that you have had to go through these things, Anne. You sound like an incredibly strong young woman, and I hope you give yourself credit for coming here and takling about these really, really tough things. That takes a lot of courage.

I have to say that your relationship with your boyfriend does not sound at all healthy to me. It is already very good that you can recognize that what he did to you was rape, and that you have been able to confront him with that, but it also sounds like there are still a lot of unhealthy dynamics at play. For example, you say that you blame yourself, that you must have done something "horrible" for him to rape you, and that you hate your body.

First of all, you did nothing horrible and you did not deserve this or bring it on yourself. Of course your boyfriend seemed like a nice person to start with: people who manipulate and abuse rarely come with signs announcing that they manipulate and abuse. If they did, no one would fall for them. Instead, they tend to be really smooth and really good at drawing people in.

Aditionally, growing up with abuse can often break our bullshit detector. If we are surrounded by unhealthy people and patterns, we eventually start to view that as normal, and that can make it really hard to recognize when someone is not good to us.

So, no: having gotten raped really is not your fault.

From what you are saying it sounds like the place you are at right now, in terms of your healing and your relationship with your body and your sexuality, is not one where it is sound to be in a sexual relationship, especially not with someone who has also abused you.

Instead, it sounds like it is time for you to focus on yourself, to take some time to really work through what has happened to you and to learn to let go of your self-blame.

Coming her to talk to us is a great start. So is calling your old psychologist. I encourage you to ask him for a referal to a therapist. If that seems too scary, you can also check whether your college has a counseling center and/or a center specifically for rape crisis counseling. That would also be a great place to start asking for help.

And most of all, please be kind to yourself, alright? You are not to blame for what has happened to you, and you did not cause or ask for these horrible things. And most of all, you do not need to deal with this alone. There are people who can help you in working through this.

[ 03-10-2013, 09:13 AM: Message edited by: September ]

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Johanna
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Redskies
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Echoing September that nothing that happened to you was your fault. If someone else harms us, it's not our fault, because they were the one who did it. Without that person doing the harming, it wouldn't have happened, so the responsibility lies with them and not with anything we did or didn't do. If we think that we're not very good at recognising harmful situations or harmful people, again, that isn't our fault, but the fault of the person or people who taught us not to trust ourselves or to put up with objectionable things. Too, it's common to think "I should've done X" afterwards, but we can't know what would've happened if we had. Someone who was already breaking our clearly expressed boundaries is very likely to go on finding other ways to break those boundaries, no matter what we tried.

Your boyfriend seems to have an extremely low opinion of men. People who think, like he seems to, that it isn't reasonable or normal to take no for an answer are usually convinced that everyone, or at least all men, think that way too; they're very wrong. Most men actually find the idea of having sexual interaction with someone who doesn't want it very unpleasant and would not want to do that. People, very much including men, understand that "no" means no, and that backing away means no, and that all kinds of other signs of disinterest mean no. Someone (with rare exceptions for people with certain kinds of cognitive and/or developmental disabilities) who does not act on those signs isn't misunderstanding, they simply don't want to act on them enough. Keeping trying to overstep and break boundaries isn't a thing that "guys" do, it's a thing that people who want power over us or want to harm us do, or people who think that their wants are more important than our rights or happiness. If we've been unfortunate enough to be around a number of men who think this way, it can certainly seem like it's just how men are; but there are more men in the world who don't think like this than do.

This article might give you some helpful information on the kinds of things we can expect in healthy, caring interactions: http://www.scarleteen.com/article/boyfriend/drivers_ed_for_the_sexual_superhighway_navigating_consent

This article might be some help to you http://www.scarleteen.com/article/crisis/dealing_with_rape Of course, do go at whatever pace you feel is best for you.

I have no intention of telling you what to do, because that's not helpful anyway and is also one of the last things you need right now. I feel it's important to say, though, that I have some concerns about your boyfriend. From what you've said, I've not heard that he's truly taken responsibility for his actions, which would be necessary for a person to truly grow and change from what they did and to be truly healthy and caring to people close to them. Also, it's nearly always very difficult, and often impossible, for us to heal from being assaulted while we are still close to a person who assaulted us. It's hard enough for us to learn not to blame ourselves, to re-learn how to establish and maintain our boundaries with other people, and to find peace with ourselves and our history, without also trying to navigate interaction with a person who hurt us and broke our trust and boundaries in such a fundamental way.

You know, you've already taken huge steps in telling people with everything you've written here. It's normal to find it difficult to talk in-person and be worried about it. You don't have to do that before you're ready to, and if you start seeing someone in-person, you can take as much time as you need to get comfortable with them and to share things that are difficult to share. It can feel very scary and hard to share the things we're most ashamed and afraid of, but what often happens after we've shared with someone supportive where we feel safe is that we feel a sense of relief and release that we said it to someone and that the entire sky didn't fall on us after all.

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The kyriarchy usually assumes that I am the kind of woman of whom it would approve. I have a peculiar kind of fun showing it just how much I am not.

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Anne_Carnes
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Hi, I'm sorry for not responding. I haven't had internet access for a bit =(

September, thank you. I agree that our relationship is unhealthy. He's told me recently that he would come to therapy with me. I am definitely in need of it; I can't sleep well anymore, I have nightmares and as I mentioned, I really hate my body.
He told me that he was manipulating me and telling me things about myself that weren't true in order for me to give him what he wanted, but I still believe the things he said. It's so bad that I believe all guys will feel the same way he did if I ever met someone else.
I am very shy, and getting to know someone is extremely difficult for me, being in a relationship, even more so. I feel as if I'd rather not even put in the effort to have another relationship if there's the chance of ending up with someone who says similar things to me..

He does not think it was rape because much of it was coercion, over months, until I was finally worn down. He would tell me that I was selfish and abnormal and that he would leave me if I didn't do what he wanted. Not like, "do this now or I'm leaving you" but rather "if you don't do this, we're really going to have to talk/I don't think we can be together/I might have to find someone else/ I don't know what we're going to do/I don't know if we can be together/we might have to take a break." I still loved him, how was I suppose to feel?
I did avoid him and anything sexual at all for months, and at one point, New Year's Eve actually, he came to me and said we needed to talk. I said no, because I knew what it was. He realized that I'd been trying to avoid it, and tried to make a deal with me, told me he needed it, and we couldn't be together if I said no.
I told him that I couldn't do those things in the beginning of our relationship when he told me he wanted that, and he told me that was fine..so then what changed? Sometimes I would tell him I couldn't do it and he'd still say it was ok, but then he'd go on pressuring me later.


Besides those times, he began kissing me a few times and then just went for it without asking. I told him plenty of times before that I didn't want to do it, it was something I was against, etc. But his thoughts are that if I didn't say it again when it was happening, that it wasn't rape.
I feel that it was because it was something that I made known every day that I did not want. I was shocked every time it happened. A lot of times it was painful and my mind went elsewhere. I know he wouldn't understand it because he's never been in the situation, but how can I kick and scream(which is what I assumed he would have expected in his view of a rape situation) when my mind went into shock and I dissociated?
He knew, because I told him so many times that I didn't want to do it, I wasn't ok with it, etc. But he still would either pressure me with whatever he could, or just go straight for what he wanted without permission.
It's like, there are boundaries with him that I know of. He won't have sex when I am on my period, and initially I wondered why because he was a huge fan of anal sex and I thought that was more disgusting than blood, so I asked him about why he wouldn't try it. Usually if he tried to have sex with me during my period, he would say everything was fine and then stop and not keep me informed with what was happening. He would shut down and not talk to me and that upset me, but he took that as me being upset with him for not doing what he thought I wanted.
My point is though, that I know from him mentioning multiple times that that isn't something he likes doing, that I am not to ask for it ever. And I don't. When we've done it, it's him offering. Other than that, I see that as a constant boundary, and I would not pressure him because he is not ok with it.

For me, I made my boundaries known each time we were together, as he begged for it every time, but he still never saw it as a boundary. He saw it as something I would eventually get used to and grow to like, and he wanted to pressure me into it when it wasn't something I wanted to do.

I feel like kissing me and pulling my pants down and slipping himself inside was rape because I made it known numerous times that I didn't want to do that.
I even feel like the coercion,which would start at the beginning of our day together, with him mentioning what he wanted to do, until the end of the day when he began to pressure and it would build up and become more and more hurtful - I felt that the coercion with the threats of breaking up with me when he knew how one of my worst fears was losing him(he knew every time I was upset that that's what I was worried was going to happen) that was rape, because it was a threat.
Too many people view rape as the victim kicking and screaming, and don't realize that's not always the case.

I would like to understand what happened to me and not have the person who I love and who is supposed to love me telling me that I am wrong.
He viewed it as affection, and that could've been what it meant to him, but I don't think hurting your partner and threatening them or simply going against their boundaries is a very good sign of affection or love at all.

I agree with the idea that past abuse can mess up our views on people and their behaviors in the future. I really should have known something was wrong, but he didn't start coming out with all of his fetishes and fantasies until very shortly after I lost my virginity to him. That as well, was something special and I wanted to save it for the right person. I really thought I did the right thing, and I have felt horrible for the past 3 years that I gave it to the wrong person because he didn't treat me appropriately and I was supposed to be able to trust him.

I'm glad that I can at least speak my mind here. I did have an appointment set up with a therapist, but they went on vacation so I am going to have to wait longer and I am feeling desperate.
Also, I did tell my boyfriend a few days ago that I wanted to go on a break..just to see how I'd feel without him, as seeing him every day makes me feel very confused and I often feel uncomfortable around him even though there hasn't been any sexual abuse since July 2011. He did try again several times that year, and he molested me a few times(and those times I actually DID yell at him or tell him firmly to get his fingers out of me, but he simply laughed like it was something playful), but it wasn't something that I considered as major as what was going on before. The only thing he started after all of this was choking me when he gets angry with me, and I am trying to just give him one more chance with that as it's something that he realizes is a problem.
However, after speaking with him about a break, he told me he would call me the next morning(after I said I did not want to speak with him during that time) and came to my house and now it's like everything is fine again, but it's really not..

I will try to stop blaming myself, it is just a very difficult thing for me to do right now.
I really wish that we could be apart and I could think for myself without his opinions.

Redskies, yes, he initially told me that he "couldn't do anything sexual with me if I wasn't enjoying it/didn't want it".. I thought I caught a jewel. I will say that after what has happened, he is normally more attentive to me when we do have sex. We talk about having sex beforehand to see if we're both on board; If I am in pain he knows and actually stops what he's doing,more often than not.. however, if he's trying to make me aroused and I pull away or say stop, though I don't let it bother me much of the time(because he has stopped doing things that caused me pain when he molested me before), I still don't understand how he can keep at it and not recognize that what he's doing is wrong and that's EXACTLY what he failed to recognize before and then claimed that it wasn't rape. Yes, sometimes those things feel nice, but it doesn't mean I want him to be doing it.

I am happy to know that not all men behave this way, and I hope that if I can find a way to distance myself from him, that I can find someone who actually respects me from the start.

It is very complicated for me because I do still love him, but I can't stand who he once was and I fear that that person is still lingering inside.
I agree that he's not taken responsibility for his actions, and really, a simple genuine "sorry" would suffice.. he gave me a promise ring at the end of 2011, he told me that it was because I was in an abusive relationship(ours) and he wanted me to know that it was a promise ring that 1.he would always be with me and was committed to me and 2.I would never have to endure that kind of abuse and pain ever again and that he was sorry. He even started crying. I felt like I could have some closure.
I've spoken about the ring recently, because he now claims that he was not abusive and took back his statement that he did rape me, and he said that he just said all of that to make me feel better, but never actually felt that way.
That was taking his apologies back in my view, and that's what is causing me so much inner turmoil concerning our relationship.

I also agree from this whole experience, and even he has said that it- that it seems impossible for me to heal when we're still together.
This is a good reason I wish to speak to a therapist, because I do still love him despite everything. There are things beyond the abuse, not taking responsibility,etc.,that I love about him.
He is usually very good to me now, even though he sometimes admits to resenting some of things that he does for me and there are occasional major and unnecessary outbursts of anger and physical violence towards me..
But I am beginning to see how difficult and impossible it seems to heal while I'm still with this same person who hurt me, and even though rare, continues to in other ways at times.
Sometimes I am scared, but I feel unable to break it off with him. I feel like we do love each other now, but it's so confusing.
I want to take a break, but I feel like he'll come to my house and I'll probably view it as sweet and it'll be the same old thing..like the other day.

I am happy that at least he is willing to go to see someone with me. I'm a bit nervous about it, because I can imagine him disagreeing and then refusing to see anyone, or us getting into an argument, when I just want a third party perspective on what occurred in both of our worlds. He keeps telling me that if we can not agree on one thing, or don't have evidence, then it is ok to say that it didn't happen, and that hurts me so badly because I still feel the pain I felt during that time. I can barely sleep anymore because of it, I don't enjoy anything involving sex, and I feel disgusted with myself.
There isn't any evidence anymore, especially after he burned my journal from that time, if you can even call that evidence..but that doesn't make it something that never happened.
The most I have on my body are tiny scars, but how in the world is that evidence? I've been cut during consensual sex plenty of times. That shows nothing =(

I am going to stop babbling, but thank you both for your help and for the articles. I definitely needed the support. I'm sorry for talking too much.

[ 03-21-2013, 02:40 AM: Message edited by: Anne_Carnes ]

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September
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It's good to see you back here, Anne! Please do not apologize for writing here - this is a safe space and you can write as much as you would like.

I have to leave for work now so I cannot respond to you right away, but I just wanted to let you know that I have seen your post and that I will respond later.

Please hang in there, okay? You're not alone in this.

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Johanna
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September
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And I am back, with a bit more time.

First, I want to say that I think it is a great step you called your therapist! It is too bad that they won't have time for you for a while. If you are comfortable with that, you can call the office and ask if they can refer you to anyone else while your regular doctor is out.

You also have other options for reaching out: you can try and see if there is a crisis counseling center near you. You did not leave your location here, so I cannot look for you, but you can check out RAINN.org's website and use their search tool to find a crisis center near you (it's the option "find a local counseling center" that appears in the drop down menu when you go to "get help").

And, as I mentioned before, if you are in college you can take advantage of the counseling offered on campus.

It sounds like you are pretty thrilled that your boyfriend agreed to see a counselor with you, and if he is serious about it that is a good sign. However, I don't think that couples/relationship counseling is the way to go here. First and foremost, it is YOU who needs support right now, so I would suggest that you seek out therapy that is all about you, and getting you help and support.

If he is serious about becoming a better person and a better partner, then he can seek out some counseling for himself, separate from you, and start there.

But, I want to be honest: it does not sound to me like he is at all serious about breaking those patterns. A lot of what you describe still sounds like abusive behavior. You say he is physically abusive of you, and it also sounds like he has no respect for your boundaries (for example, you asked for a break and he showed up at your door the next day).

I also hear you saying you are not ready to leave him yet, and I want to respect your feelings on that. So, I am okay with focusing on other things first, such as getting you support from a counselor, and building up a support system.

There is one exception to this: you say he is choking you, which sounds pretty serious. So if you feel like you are on physical danger from him, I want you do to what you can to get away from him right now. Tell a friend or trusted adult to get some help, and break off contact with him.

How are you doing for a support system? Do you have any family you are close with? Do you have any close friends you can reach out to?

[ 03-21-2013, 02:39 PM: Message edited by: September ]

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Johanna
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"The question is not who will let me, but who is going to stop me." -Ayn Rand

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Also, how is your family situation now? Are you in touch with anyone from your family? Do you live in a safe place and where you feel comfortable?

--------------------
Johanna
Scarleteen Volunteer

"The question is not who will let me, but who is going to stop me." -Ayn Rand

Posts: 9192 | From: Cologne, Germany | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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