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mysticgal12
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okay. so i dont know if this is exactly abusive behavior or if its just something that bugs me or if i make excuses for him.

me and my ex boyfriend have been trying to wrok things out. we tend to have a few issues and i thought maybe if we could take a breather and talk about things and work stuff out that we could get past it. im very attached to him because he was my very first partner.

tonight while i was babysitting i was informed that an older guy liked me, he was drunk and i felt uncomfortable with the age difference so i simply left. i tried to talk to about this with my ex and he got mad. which is understanstandable.

after i told him that there was nothing to worry about though and that me and my older sister handled the situation, and im sure that the guy would be embaressed tommorow, my ex got mad. he then got short with me and then just quit talking to me at all.

he does this everytime he gets mad over something. he will quit talking to me and even turn away from me if im with him. it leads me to feel like whatever happened is all my fault and i get upset. and then angry. i mean why should i feel responsible for something that isnt even in my control?

but it still hurts. and it gets so bad that if i even try to say "i love u" or anything he will not reply to me. and if asked about it later he gets kinda huffy and states that he did this to prevent yelling at me or starting a fight or something along those lines. he never seems to take into consideration about what this behavoir feels like to me.

is this abusive? he doesnt hit me or really even call me names but he makes me feel bad for things he gets angry over, and like today when we met up to talk and hang out he wanted to have sex, in broad daylight at a park in his car, i said no multiple times. he got all sad at first and it felt like he was trying to nake me feel guilty, but i held on to my solid No. then when i said it again, he got mad and wouldnt talk to me again making me feel like thats all he came for even if he said it wasnt.

it seems like he keeps throwing this in my face too and im starting to question whether this is abusive behavior that ive been making excuses for due to my attachment to him, or whether i really do wanna be with him because i care, or whether this is healthy, or even if i like the idea of a relationship and am trying to get it from any person i can. i just dont know and i would love some guidance.

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mysticgal12
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also he constantly states that he feels the only way to make me know how much he loves me is through sex. but we are not even truly together and i just dont agree with this response.
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Robin Lee
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HI mysticgal12,

I think the really important factor here, rather than deciding if this is abusive behaviour or not, is that you don't like this behaviour in a partner. This is totally okay. WE get to decide how we want to be treated. It's also important to remember that we can't change the way others feel or the way we behave.

And no, sex is definitely not the only way to express or experience love, and you never ever have to have sex if you don't want to. Good for you for being firm on that! [Smile]

You might find these articles helpful.

Does Your Relationship Need a Checkup?

Potholes & Dead Ends: Relationship Roadblocks to Look Out For

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Robin

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mysticgal12
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i definatly do not like this behavior or the fact that i feel like im on eggshells whenever i talk to him. his anger is too much for me to deal with and i feel like maybe i should just quit trying.

i want and feel like i deserve better than what this relationship is giving me.

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Robin Lee
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Sounds like you're pretty sure of what you do and don't want.
Kudos to you for that!
What's the next step for you?

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Robin

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mysticgal12
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i called my bff and told her about it, she went through something extreamly similar. and ive decided to just cut off contact with my ex.

i am most likly going to her house tonight then going to cedar point with all our friends tommorow [Smile] then ill wind up staying again.

other than that im gonna try to stay firm on my decision to stay away from him, but a big part of me wonders how ill actually do it [Frown]

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mysticgal12
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is there any advice on how i could stay firm with leaving him?
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Robin Lee
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One thing you may find helpful is to make a list of all the pros and cons of staying with him versus leaving.

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Robin

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mysticgal12
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i have done that before and it didnt really amount to anything for me.
' my main problem is i feel guilty, he acuses me of not caring about him, of having never cared about him, and he says that i give up on him all the time and that basicly im a horrible person and he is not.

he says i dont love him because im not willing to put myself through all of what he does to me. but he is wrong i DO love him, but i hate his actions twards me and i have realized he will NEVER change them.

am i always gonna feel so guilty? he also trys telling me that he will quit eating and start cutting himself and that if i dont get back with him he will kill himself, and i really dont wanna be responsible for that.

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mysticgal12
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like it cant really be my fault is it?
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Heather
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No, it cannot.

And this person is manipulating you emotionally.

So, this is how it's going to be with this person. Is this what you want?

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
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Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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mysticgal12
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no i dont. i have deleted and blocked him from everything now. so the only way for him to contact me is to physicaly come to my house.

which i hope he doesnt.

and i think now i just gotta make sure to keep away from him and stuff but its really hard to deal with everything. and talking to my parents and family, they just get mad at me and tell me to forget about it. but its really not that easy

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Heather
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I'm glad to hear that. You deserve much, much better: everyone does. Everyone deserves to be treated like a human being and with respect and courtesy, at the very, very least.

I'm sorry to hear your family isn't being as supportive as they can be. But at the very least, if you've concern he might come to your house, do you think you could get a family member to deal with him so you don't have to? maybe have a talk about that now, just in case?

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
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Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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mysticgal12
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well i live in a trailer park that is private property. so basicly if he comes here ill tell the manager and he will be escorted off the property. so that only a minor concern.

i guess my biggest fear is that im never gonna find a boy who treats me good.

so far ive either had boys that were abusive or boys who were gay.

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Heather
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Great: glad you'll have that set up to be safe and also feel safer.

Do you want to talk about your relationship patterns now? These are always things that can change, and usually it's not like there aren't randoms in there, too.

But certainly there are often things people can do to change a pattern of unavailable partners or abusive partners that can help. Again, there's still the element of random you can't control for, but I'm willing to bet we could come up with some things to make it way, way less likely to wind up in either spot moving forward.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About MeGet our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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mysticgal12
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well the first guy i dated for a long time (13 months) was sooo sweet and treated me like a princess. we had fun and everything together and it seemed like a perfect realtionship. but after awhile it seemed like nothing ever changed, and he admited that he was very attracted to boys so we split. but we r the best of friends now and still go camping and everything. he even went to prom with me.

and my ex seemed to be similar to him at first. we got along great and seemed to have similar goals in life. plus he made me laugh so much everyday. just things changed eventually. we fought and he didnt like that i was independant. he wanted me to have to go to him for everything and would get mad if i didnt like it that way. and eventually things just got to the point i was watching what id say or i wouldnt say anything at all. i got quiet and didnt even make friends at my new school. he would get mad if i wanted to hang out with anyone other than him. and if we did break up after he cheated on me or if i just got sick of his behavior twards me he would make it out to be my fault.

like he accually told me he cheated becasue the other girl would drink and party with him, but i wouldnt because i feel there are better ways to have fun.

when we broke up i went on a date with a guy from my class. and we had fun, but i dint exactly feel right with him. all night i was kinda uncomfortable and scared about how things could wind up. and my ex kept sending both of us texts and yelling at us in school so much that we never tried to go out again. which is sad because we had gone to see the hunger games mainly becasue we both read the book and wanted to compare the movie to the book.

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Heather
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So, am I geting right that so far you:
• dated one guy who turned out to be gay, but wasn't out at the time or firm in his attractions to men himself,
• dated one guy who was abusive, and
• dated one guy who...well, you don't know his deal at all since you didn't have anything but one date?

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About MeGet our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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mysticgal12
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yes. and before all them i "dated" a guy ( i put it that way cuz we never really hung out face to face) who would also get mad at everything i did and was very demanding of me. like if i didnt get up at 8 in the morning he would get mad and throw a huge fit and he always expected complete control over me. but i left him 3 weeks into our relationship.
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Heather
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(I have to go into a meeting with a volunteer, but I'll pop back here in a couple hours when I'm done.)

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About MeGet our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Heather
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Okay.

So, I'm not seeing a longstanding pattern here, of either of these things, honestly.

People often won't know who they are and aren't attracted to or their sexual identity when they're younger: that's just going to happen.

Obviously that deal with the one date is just a one date. And while it sucks WHY you couldn't explore beyond what sounded like a good date, dates don't turn into anything more LOADS of the time for a whole bunch of reasons.

But when I look at the two experiences with abuse, if I'm looking for anything you can control from here on out, I'm seeing one relationship (online, I assume) where when the cues things weren't healthy came up, you got out of there fast. Good stuff.

But then with the other, it looks like cues were there and you didn't go. but got further involved while more and more were happening and stayed involved as things got worse.

Now, it's always a lot easier to leave something where the way to be away from someone is to just click an X at the top of a screen and delete emails. So, there's that right there: leaving is tougher with in-person relationships of all kinds.

So, if there's anything at all moving forward to prevent another abusive relationship as you can, it seems to me that remembering to trust your gut, be on the lookout for problematic things from the start and be ready to get gone, no second chances, etc. if this kind of stuff you've talked about comes up will help you out a lot.

But really, I don't see any reason to think there's no one out there for you based on just these four relationships or interactions. I know it can feel like that, I do, especially before some longer life perspective where you start to see just how many people we can meet or get involved with before we really connect, but really, I don't see any reason to think you're doomed in this respect. [Smile]

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About MeGet our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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mysticgal12
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thanks that really does make me feel better [Smile]

i think that maybe i rushed too fast into a relationship with my ex. lots of bad things were happening at that time and i think maybe i just got involved because he seemed nice and i desperately wanted some single person to be there.

and i realize this isn't the best way to choose someone.

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Heather
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It's not, but you know, it happens to the best of us.

I think the takeaway from things like that when we realize they happened is just to make a mental note that at times like that, it's usually more sound to seek out platonic friendships than serious sexual/romantic relationships.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About MeGet our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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mysticgal12
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i think so too. and this weekend i may even go and hang out with the guy i dated that turned out to be gay, and his twin. they dont expect anything from me and i get a good feeling around them and their family.

our relationship changed but its accually stronger than when we dated. if that makes any sense? and besides my ex didnt like him so throughout our relationship i wasnt allowed to talk to the twins, and lately ive been reaching out to them more. im getting excited and a kinda nervous about hanging out with them again.

im terrified that they and their family doesnt like me anymore for listening to my ex and cutting contact with them.

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Heather
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Nice!

And for sure that makes sense. I often think of how we form relationships with people as each of us, together, trying to find what relationship is right for us as individuals and people together. In other words, rather than looking for a boyfriend or a friend or whatever, we connect with people and, over time, see what relationship best fits us both. So, for sure, we can find that someone we first got involved with in one way, but where that didn't work, winds up being a way better relationship when it's a different kind. [Smile]

And why not talk to them about what you feel scared of?

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About MeGet our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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mysticgal12
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i have and they tell me im being silly. but sometimes i feel guilty for what i did.
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Heather
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How do you think you might be able to work through that guilt and get past it?

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About MeGet our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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mysticgal12
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i think maybe if i keep going around them and keep hanging out with them and mending my relationships with all of them things might get better. and even if they dont it would make me happy to do that anyway. my ex has lowered my self esteem and confidence alot through everything he has told me, and i know that getting back out with my friends will help alot
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Heather
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I think that's a grand plan, all around. [Smile]

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About MeGet our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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mysticgal12
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im glad. [Smile] it helps to be able to talk things through like this, without being yelled at or told to just get over it.

its too hard to just get over it

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Heather
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I think it's safe to say that nobody "just gets over" anything of any import.

Working through big stuff is a process, for everyone, and that process is actually important. We usually get more from it, really, than whatever it results in.

So, you rock on with your bad (but really, good) process, whatever it might be, mysticgal.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About MeGet our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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mysticgal12
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thanks!
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mysticgal12
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Hey, i know i havent posted here in awhile...but i got highly upset one night, and i couldnt stop crying. i called my best friend and told her absolutly everything that happened with my ex and i. ....and she came to different conclusions about it than i did. but im not sure if they are correct or not
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Redskies
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Hi, mysticgal12. Would you like to talk about your friend's reaction?

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The kyriarchy usually assumes that I am the kind of woman of whom it would approve. I have a peculiar kind of fun showing it just how much I am not.

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mysticgal12
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I would.

whith everything i told her, she simply said that she believed that not only was he abusive, but that i had been raped. regardless of whether i was dating him, and regardless that he never really got physical with me

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Redskies
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It sounds like your friend was basically supportive of what you were saying to her, which is usually a good thing.

As a bottom line, we, the person that experienced something, get to define what that something was and what it means to us. Sometimes, we like to consider other people's ideas as a way to figure out what we think.

Certainly, whether something is rape or not is not at all dependent on whether we were dating someone or whether they physically forced us.

Did your friend say why she thought that?

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The kyriarchy usually assumes that I am the kind of woman of whom it would approve. I have a peculiar kind of fun showing it just how much I am not.

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mysticgal12
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she came to that conclusion because of what i had been telling her. i have been upset and thinking thro the different things that happened. and i realized that alot of the time, when he said he would repect when i said no he didnt.

he didnt like pin me down and litterally force me that way, but he would refuse to akknowledge me if i said no. he would act like i wasnt there. abd he would play with my emiotions and not let me not have sex or do what he wanted me to. i couldnt say no and not have to do something. he would get mad and slam things around me or hit things near me, or say okay then leave me. and if i was far from home, and he being my ride, the only choice i felt like i had was to do what he wanted.

so my friend said that that is or should be considered rape. but i dont know. i mean i was dating him at the time,and there were times i did wanna do it, just not always

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Redskies
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Something important to know about rape or sexual assault is this: it doesn't matter what relationship we have with somebody, or whether we've ever agreed to sex with them before, or if we agree to sex with them later - if we do Not freely agree to sex on any specific occasion, if a person goes ahead anyway, that meets the definition of rape.

It was wrong of him to behave as he did with you. What you're describing above is coercion. Making someone feel threatened, or like they don't have any choice about agreeing to sex, or ignoring them when they say no, is wrong and abusive. If someone agrees to sex when they don't feel like they have a choice, that isn't freely agreeing to sex, so it isn't what we understand as consent.

What you're describing does meet the definition of rape, yes. What you call it, and how you think of it, is absolutely up to you, because that's your right as the person who experienced it.

There's an article on this site about abuse and assault. Would you like a link to it?

[ 07-02-2012, 10:54 PM: Message edited by: Redskies ]

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The kyriarchy usually assumes that I am the kind of woman of whom it would approve. I have a peculiar kind of fun showing it just how much I am not.

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mysticgal12
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yeah. i dont know how to get past it. really i try to ignore it but its hard to. i wanna be able to move on and be excited for school in the fall and everything but just knowing that he is gonna be there makes me afraid. i cant even look at a picture without freaking out and getting choked up. everything seems to bring back memories.

like my best guy friend gave me a ride into town so we could go see fireworks, while my sister was with me i was fine and it was fun, but on the way back it was just me and him and it was awful. i kept thinking about the last time i was in a car like that and how that went, and i nearly started bawling right there. by time i got home i practically ran from him and he didnt do anything wrong.

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Redskies
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Here are two links to things that might give you some information. The first looks at abuse within a dating relationship, more angled toward someone who is still in the relationship - but it still looks at some of the dynamics involved and can help some people to figure out what happened to them. http://www.scarleteen.com/article/crisis/blinders_off_getting_a_good_look_at_abuse_and_assault

The second is specifically about rape and sexual assault. It talks about what consent really is and is not, and about dealing with and healing, and the recovery process.

http://www.scarleteen.com/article/crisis/dealing_with_rape

It's ok if you need to take a while with these. There's a lot of info here, and it can be a lot to take in while we're still getting our head round what happened to us. Of course, you can ask for support or ask questions at any time on the boards.

It is absolutely reasonable to feel afraid of someone who harmed, assaulted or abused us. There should be ways of making sure you're safe from this person, and we can explore them. By "school", do you mean high school or college?

It's very common for people who've been abused or assaulted to still have strong feelings and reactions about it some time later. It's a significant thing to have happened to us, and it's ok that it has an effect and takes us a while to come to terms with. Most of us try to ignore it, and most of us find that that doesn't really work. Moving on is possible, but it usually involves processing what happened to us and healing from it. When we go through the recovery process, the bad stuff does lessen with time. It can feel very tough, and very hard to go through, but it does get better.

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The kyriarchy usually assumes that I am the kind of woman of whom it would approve. I have a peculiar kind of fun showing it just how much I am not.

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mysticgal12
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By school i mean a career center, so a high school. and we are in the same trade. the chef and teacher's aid knows that we had a not so awsome relationship but doesnt really know what happened. they were just there to send me to the nurse's office when somthing sketchy happened.

i guess if he started things at school i could go to the principal and request a No Contact Order, but it would make things in lab hard, becasue then id have to deal with a restraining order while being forced to work with him, or around him. and i will take a look at those links, maybe they will help me.

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mysticgal12
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okay that second article helped alot...but this kid was my boyfriend. and naturally not every sexual encounter we had was forced or the result of him guilt tripping me and such. so does that somehow erase the times when it wasnt wanted?

and since this happened over a time span of 8 months (i was talking to him and things then) and now a month that i have cut ties and refuse to talk to him and am slowly thinking things through and processing.....could i even do anything about it? it would just be his word against mine.

even tho five months into our relationship, his ex girlfriends new guy had messaged me on Facebook, saying that the girl was raped...could us two together do somthing to make it so it cant do it again? im sure he has done it to plenty of his ex girls, and i hate tot think that he is goin to do it again to some other girl.

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Redskies
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I'm sorry it's been a little time before you got a reply. I think the boards are a bit under-staffed right now, so there might not always be someone who's able to reply to you right away. You are important, so if you'd like our help or you'd like to talk, do post, and someone will get to you as soon as we can.

If we consent to sex sometimes with a person, or we consent to some kinds of sex but not others, that absolutely does not erase any occasion where we did not consent and they did it anyway. Consent isn't a blanket yes or a blanket no. It's a bit like... say that we usually really enjoy playing tennis, but one day we felt really ill; if our usual tennis partner made us go to the court and run around when we really just needed to be in bed with a hot water bottle, that would be really wrong of them, and it's obviously selfish and ridiculous of them, and it doesn't matter that we like playing tennis all the other times, because at that particular time it's absolutely not what we wanted or what was good for us. It would also be wrong and selfish of our usual tennis partner if they thought that just because we liked tennis, they could expect us to play golf with them and not recognise that the things are different and that we have a right not to like golf.

I'm not trying to say that being made to do sport is the same as having our body violated in a very personal way - I don't think it is, at all. I was hoping to demonstrate how our wishes can change, and how that's ok, and that our wishes should be respected.

I can't think right now of where I've seen it, but I do remember that I've seen statistics from good sources that show that more people experience rape or sexual assault from an intimate partner than they do from a stranger. So, it really doesn't matter that this person was your boyfriend - if you didn't consent, you didn't consent. If the person was an intimate partner, for sure, it can make the whole thing very much more confusing, as we question ourselves, think about the times when we did consent, and wonder how someone who was close to us could hurt us and betray our trust.

In terms of doing anything about it, I think that the most important thing is your well-being and what you need to process, deal with and heal from this. Some people choose never to report or do anything official, for various reasons; for other people, doing something official is important for them to do for their own healing. If you're thinking about reporting, what I do strongly suggest is that you connect with a support/advocacy service for rape and sexual assault in your area first. For people who decide they want to report, it can be a very, very worthwhile thing to do, but even so, it tends to be very tough. A support service can talk you through what you might expect to happen, and should put your own needs and wishes first.

I also want to make sure you know that you're not responsible for trying to prevent him hurting anyone else. Only he is responsible for what he does. Some people do feel that they want to speak out and do what they can, so if you feel that way, that's totally ok, and we should just make sure that you have the support and information you need to do it in a way that's as positive as possible for you.

You're right about that "his word against yours" being a common difficulty. However, if you believe that he's hurt other people, if there are more than one of you that make reports, that does strengthen your cases. No-one can guarantee you what the outcome might be, or if anything will be done about this guy, but if you and others feel you want to report, it may give you the knowledge that at least you've done what you can; also, if there's a record of reports against this guy, even if no action is taken on the basis of those reports, they should still be there, and maybe they could be used to support someone else's report in the future.

Reporting or not reporting is always an individual choice, and there is no right and wrong choice to make with that. There's only what's best for you, and what you feel you want to do.

Have you accessed any in-person or telephone help about what this guy did? Is that something that you feel might help you? If it is, then the staff/volunteers here should be able to look up somewhere for you, if you weren't sure where to go yourself.

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The kyriarchy usually assumes that I am the kind of woman of whom it would approve. I have a peculiar kind of fun showing it just how much I am not.

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mysticgal12
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i have a counselor i just dont have an appointment with her anytime soon.

and thank you for getting back with that. it helped me alot to read thro that.

now im just dealing with the dropping stomache feeling i get when ever i get around him. like i went to some fireworks with my friends and he was there and i went thro a near panic attack and wound up leaving.

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Robin Lee
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Do you think you could get an appointment with your counsellor sooner? When is the one you currently have scheduled?

What do you think about when you get that fear and anxiety while seeing him? I ask because sometimes recognizing the root of the fear can help you know how to confront the fear.

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mysticgal12
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im not quite sure. i just think about him being near me and pretending like i dont exsist or being mean to me again. just knowing he is near drives me crazy. i cant even stand to see a red car becasue it makes me all parinoid that he is near.

but i am finding out that if i focus on the future and my new found dreams that its easier to not think about him. Me and my friend Abby and Eddie have been hanging out alot. I even go tmy first job, and am plannin on moving out nearer to christmas with Abby.

it seems like things are looking up.

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Heather
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Do you think you'd feel better with a safety plan?

In other words, if you had steps you knew to take and had safeties (be they emotional, physical or both) in place for if a red car went by and it WAS his, or you saw him, do you think that'd help you feel better?

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mysticgal12
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maybe because i have no idea what would happen and that scares me because i really like to know things like that or at least have an idea.

and i know that he lives 45 min away. so i never thought that we would cross paths, but thtat was before i went to go with my friends and wound up seeing him there. it shocked me so badly

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Heather
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Well, what if what would happen is something like you'd call a friend on your cell or ask someone for their cell so you could, a friend who has agreed to be there for you if you called with something like this?

And that friend could either talk to you so you felt better, or call for help for you if you needed it in-person?

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
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mysticgal12
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i feel like my friends would rather be violent. but they have swore to m that they wouldnt let anything happen to me. so i guess i just need to remember that. and i know that my chef wont let anything happen at school either.
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Heather
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You don't have any friends, anyone you know, you can think of who can recognize that violence as an answer to someone who has been traumatized by it is a really bad answer?

No one who you could call who could just tell you you are going to be okay, call the police for you if needed, etc?

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About MeGet our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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