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breath
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[ 03-20-2012, 07:35 PM: Message edited by: breath ]

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breath
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[Hi,

I want to discuss with you something / feelings/ that I have been having since I spend some causal sex with someone. I find this person moderately attractive (or pretty attractive) , learned a few things from previous abusive initimate situation, and have very open frank talks with this person. I knew within a few mins of talking to him that he was 41 with a 12 year old son.

Anyways, I have been meeting up with him for a sexual affair of sorts. I am satisfied n contend with the way the interact is and how I am generally treated by this person, respect , courtesy, consideration. BTW, I'm 24.


1. Recently, after I spend an evening there, I called my friend Mel in the whirlpool of emotion, and told her that i had sexual intercourse (of some degree with this person) , even though I told myself before the call that i will keep it to myself. Keeping up the feelings/thoughts/ issues will give me some personal headspace to make sense of them and even boost my confidence in my own problem solving abilities. Why couldn't I keep it to myself and how to detail with the feeling that I let my self down?

2. I am trying to determine the cause of why i'm feeling this vague feeling:

A. Is it just a way for me to procrastinate on my work, studying, future, career goals that I am not sure or confident about? a way to mis-manage my time [Frown]

B. Is it similar to a previous abusive situation? I keep thinking in the back of my mind if the sex part was consentual? Or was it just a by product of the environment (I'm there , the other person is there)? True that our environment effects our choices, but where or how do I find out these are my own geninue feelings and not imposed by the environment?When he went to put on condom and I said, Ok we'll just try and see how it feels and he said yes, ok, u drive, stop whenever. I felt fine, relaxed, no pain and wasn't shocked or etc with the extend of what happened. it all seemed normal, relaxed, smooth. i enjoyed the look on this person's face and the feeling / friction that i felt inside me.

(maybe in the future or if this happens again, I can say that I need you to go slowly, to check in with me verbally, "is this oK" "does this feel OK" "are you comfortable" "how can i make this better" ...."should we go forward"..... i feel that this isn't just something people new to PIV sex ask for, it could be true for people who are having sex at any time in their lives with someone)

C. Am I having difficulty grasping or understanding or accepting that this person is 41 wth a kid? Of course the first time I heard it, I was like of course not and was uninterested . However, I'm wondering if in our interactions, I have just been ignoring that and seeing him as someone else (like in their 30s or something) and not who they really are. Or perhaps not...*shrugs*

I think b.c at some level, i'm afraid and ultra-alert, i find myself wanting to go back and micro-analyze anything this person may have said that may led me to believe that this is somewhat abusive/not fair on the spectrum etc.


How to cope w/t this ?

I have boundaries as before, made appt with school counselor and no plans so far to contact this person for quiet a few weeks or more until I have figured out this piece.


thanks

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Heather
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Hey there, breath.

You ask why you couldn't keep this to yourself: can you tel me more about why you felt you should have to? I just ask because telling friends about our sexual or love relationships is pretty common among friends.

You ask about a cause of a vague feeling: what vague feeling?

I mean, you ask if being involved in this is about procrastinating: do YOU think it is? What's your take?

You ask if this is similar to previous abuse or if it's consensual: can you fill us in more on why you're thinking about those things?

I also can' know if you're getting this person is a 41-year-old parent, especially since I'm not sure I could know what that does or doesn't mean for you. Are you not comfortable being involved with someone that age who also parents? Does that seem like something you do or don't want?

--------------------
Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
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Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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breath
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.

[ 03-20-2012, 08:19 PM: Message edited by: breath ]

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breath
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I have told my friends when i first met this person and how things are/were and i was suprised how everyone acted normal/fine about it. My friends are in 20s and early 30s. I feel like perhaps as a 'grown up', I should just be able to handle thIS on my own and manage my own emotions or uncertainly of emotions that life sometimes brings.


I don't know what to call the 'vague feeling': . anxiety? fear? just general feelings that i'm growing in my life/human experience?


Maybe that's partially true, that I could be studying and etc too. But maybe part of it is growing up and allowing myself to feel these feelings and the experience and that takes time...


I don't have any concrete reason on why I think about the past abusive situation. Mostly i can't help but compare, if only to improve my knowledge on how people/relationships work. We all compare our past interactions with the ones we are having in the moment. I think it's just a 'fear' I have - and perhaps it is good to be critical. i am still learning and practicing healthy interactions and how to engage in situations/with people that are like that.


This situation is drastically different that the past abusive one, as of now. No verbal or emotional abuse. There is no feelings that one person ows another person anything. Things are clear and transparent. I have my boundaries and so does he and that's mutually respected, even though we do talk about personal things.

quote:

I also can' know if you're getting this person is a 41-year-old parent, especially since I'm not sure I could know what that does or doesn't mean for you. Are you not comfortable being involved with someone that age who also parents? Does that seem like something you do or don't want?

Frankly, this person's parenting business or life outside doesn't concern me or have anything to do with me. I have boundaries with this person and vice-versa. I don't talk to him outside of our occassional meetings (which are also sexual) and I feel comfortable happy with that. I guess it's bit of a growth experience for me to realize/ see this parenting side of a person. This person clearly and deeply is involved with the child. (The child lives in a different state). However,that's a part of him that is very much there when i do spend time with this person, along side other fun parts of him.
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Heather
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Well, it's part of who they are and you're involved with them, so it doesn't have nothing to do with you, but it sounds like as things stand, it's not got a lot to do with you.

All the same, you okay with this? I hear you saying it is, but it's just new.

--------------------
Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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breath
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[TE]
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breath
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quote:
Originally posted by Heather:
Well, it's part of who they are and you're involved with them, so it doesn't have nothing to do with you, but it sounds like as things stand, it's not got a lot to do with you.

All the same, you okay with this? I hear you saying it is, but it's just new.

Sorry about the repeated message above. As stated earlier, one of the first things that I did notice/liked about this person was how dedicated they were to their child. I thought it was admirable but at the same time, I was uninterested because of my own personal bias about "41 year old" "12 year old child" clearly a NO-NO. Yes, it's a bit new and I think I am only now beginning to grasp the mindset of a parent. It's not an experience or type of a causal sex fling that most people my age are having. (I have another co-occuring sex fling with someone close to my age =) )

I appreciate the experience/knowledge nevertheless, but it's just really EYE opening.

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breath
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I guess, the other thing about the abuse is that:

First evening/night: I said i didn't want to have sex but happy to cuddle etc. in bed, he put hands on my *** etc and I wasn't into it so i told him. i think it stopped. in the morning, we woke up and he kind of started to grind his pelvis into me. I guess this wasn't soemthing that i gave 100% consent to but i didn't have an immediate dislike reaction to it. Perhaps i was just getting use to it. he asked me if we wanted to shower, i was fine with that. in the shower he kissed me on my private parts, i semi-enjoyed it but didn't respond too much and he stopped after that. I noted that it all happened really fast, and he said that 'nothing has happened yet". strange thing to say.


2nd evening/night: in the morning, i was in bed topless as it as too hot. there was some touching/moving around and then he started kissing my breasts. I was kind of intriguided, maybe excited but not something that I said 'YES' to explicitly beforehand. He asked me if he could kiss me down there, and that it was fine if i kept my underwear on, and then did it. i guess keeping my underwear on made me feel 'safer' 'secure'. i begin to enjoyed it but again kind of suprised too at first. He also remarked in the AM why i didn't want to have sex with him and that he was ready.

After shower/dressing up, i asked him if he resented that i didnt pleasure him and he said to not worry about it and that i shud be able to stand up to him or anyone else if i didn't want to do anything. I guess that assured me that perhaps we are / were on the same page.

3rd time:
I went there b.c i was interested and aroused. I made some moves and he responded. I asked him to finger me but i didn't feel much pleasure (that's reality of life, right?)., but not displeasure either.

I guess i kind of paniced when he said he would get a condom, but felt relaxed when he said that "I drive" and that "he will stop whenever i say so, like before" and that "everything felt good to him, to take as much time as i needed". He said that his penis is just like a finger and clearly i didn't think so and spoke my mind. Perhaps it wasn't the greatest greatest sexual experience but would you say that this all seems consenual based on what we know about consent? I think consent is hard to exactly define at times, even though it seems so clear. He didn't specifically asked and i didn't specifically say 'YES'...

Surely, some of the things or comments he made earlier aren't quiet perfectly in line with my views. But I didn't feel like someone violated me while or during it, even though perhaps I could enjoy it more in the future...

[ 03-20-2012, 08:46 PM: Message edited by: breath ]

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Heather
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(I'd hope that by now, as you've been here a while, you recognize that when someone is engaging in the kinds of sex with you like he has been, he obviously IS getting pleasure from those things, and it's not you "not pleasuring them." Yeah?)

I don't hear anything here tipping off my non-consent radar. I also hear this person giving you a lot of room for non-consent, and in the way he's exploring a sexual relationship with you, sounding very consensual about it.

So, that leaves your own gut feelings, especially since the minute-by-minute of things like this without knowing the context or being part of it is often tough. You're choosing to be involved with this person sexually, so I assume you want to be involved with them, in that way, right? You're asking about this, so obviously it's a question for you. What do YOU think?

--------------------
Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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breath
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I agree. I just didn't know if this person also thought that same way. Many times, people don't :/ atleast in the mainstream culture. Yes, this is something that I have learned from here that has changed my view drastically, and completely agree. In fact, when I was going down on him (out of my own will, no pressure or request from him), it was very likely the first time that I was enjoying it, maybe even the first time that i considered a penis as a part of a person instead of isolated from the person. He asked me if I was enjoying it and I said that if I weren't, i wouldn't be doing it.


I do agree that for a casual sex fling, he's giving me lots of room for nonconsent. In fact, he said that whenever I want to come over, I can let him know/reach out to him and if he's not busy, he'll let me know. Sounds reasonable and sound to me. It's nice to have been given a lot of "power" or "control" on how things are going. I think that may be what has made me so comfortable.


quote:
So, that leaves your own gut feelings, especially since the minute-by-minute of things like this without knowing the context or being part of it is often tough. You're choosing to be involved with this person sexually, so I assume you want to be involved with them, in that way, right? You're asking about this, so obviously it's a question for you. What do YOU think? [/QB]
Yes, I do find this person attractive and am happy to be exploring this controlled, easy, issue-free, relaxed, respectful sexual fling with this person. I do like the extra's - the shower in the morning, the breakfast in the morning, the invitation to always sleep over--i would say all that has gone into making me feeling comfortable and makes me feel like I'm being acknowledged as a person. The sexual experience it's self even though maybe not like mindblowing amazing etc, has been good. I think good sexual experiences build over time when people feel safe and their boundaries and comfort level are established and understood, instead of a one-time thing.


Perhaps the lesson here is that :consent is expressed or asked for in ways other than just verbally? and that people's sexual actions aren't always going to measure to the 'T' with a consent rubic, ...but my gut feelings are important.

i am thinking that I can certainly ask him to be more verbal ie. (to check in with me verbally " is this oK" "are you OK" etc to assure my mind free of fear and anxiety) during the sexual experience...

MANY THANKS HEATHER! and ps: I heard about the ruling in Pakistan. I have spend a year there and granted that my first and abusive sexual experience was there, i'm saddned to hear that people wouldn't have access to this knowledge [Frown] [Frown]

[ 03-20-2012, 09:15 PM: Message edited by: breath ]

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