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Author Topic: I really don't know what I was thinking
renyoj
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By going to that party, just screwed things up more for me and it was really f*cking stupid to go. The people at the ER told me to set up an appointment with the lady I used to talk to, to see if my medicine needs changing. I guess they think it's why all this crap happened, I don't know. Just, if I go talk to her she can't tell my parents anything and I can't get in trouble with anyone if I don't give out any private information about the people I talk about right? Or will she make me because then I can't go because I know she will she used to talk about dating but she don't know anything was wrong and she'd have to now I guess
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renyoj
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And now they won't stop f*cking bothering me
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atm1
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Who won't stop bothering you renyoj? What happened to send you to the ER?
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renyoj
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Some f*cking guy from the party I don't remember his name I used to, I gave him head before when I had to and he's wanted to go out when it's been convenient. He was high and he wouldn't leave me alone just kept trying to get with me and I guess he was staring when I went into the woods. I don't know how, I guess he just grabbed me and I didn't think he would and got me close to him like we were dancing. I could feel him, and he was trying to get me to touch him and pull down my pants and I don't know what I started doing, my ex said it looked like I was having a seizure and so he called 911 and pulled the guy away.
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renyoj
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He kept texting me worryig if his penis was alright.
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renyoj
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And I really don't know why I'm so stupid enough to go sleep with my ex, I mean I had no reason too just makes me seem more of a slut
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Heather
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renyoj, I just woke up, but I'm around if you want to talk.

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renyoj
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My ex didn't have anything to do with it and he didn't make me do anything, it was all my stupid idea. And he kept asking if I was sure or alright and trying to put it off he was being nice and not a jerk like I figured he would've been. And I don't know why, but they did a rape kit I guess when I went to the hospital and so now they're going to think my ex did crap, and that f*cking other guy won't stop texting me or mutual friends.
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Heather
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Well, you can certainly ask him to stop texting you and your friends. And when it comes to you, you can block his texts or calls if you'd like, as well.

Without having been at the party to see all of what happened or at the hospital to be privy to how that went, what you said, what you were like when you came in there, I can't know exactly why they did a rape kit.

What do you need from us right now? Just not sure if you want or need to talk, and if so, what you want to talk about.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
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Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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renyoj
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I have, since last night. He'll stop for a few hours and then text back and I just stopped reading them and just delete them. And I know, I'm not explaining anything well I'm trying to think in a better sense than what I am. But my ex, I think he's why they did it. He told me last night that he thought the guy did more than he really did, since he wasn't there the whole time. Didn't know he just looked and got me to touch him.

And I really don't know, my friend's pissed off at me right now and won't talk to me and I don't really know how much I should talk to my ex. The ER people said I had a panic attack, and now my parents are going to make me go back to talk to that lady. What am I supposed to tell her about all of this, and she'd be telling my parents. And just because I wanted to get back at the jerk that dumped me I slept with my ex, which obviously how loose is that.

On top of that, I'm going to end up grounded and stuck at home and not be able to go or see anyone or anything.

[ 08-22-2009, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: renyoj ]

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Heather
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The apparent panic attack may have been the kind of post-traumatic response I was explaining to you last night, as well.

Your therapist should not be passing on her conversations with you to your parents: you should have your privacy and confidentiality respected in that regard. You said you liked her, yes? If so, by all means, talk to her about your rights to privacy so she can fill you in. Then you can make your choices about what you tell her accordingly. Ideally, I really think you need someone to work with right now who you can -- even if not right away -- be fully honest with, which would include disclosing the rape of the other night and your history of unhealthy and abusive partnerships.

In the long run, getting a pretty quick referral to the therapist may actually be a really great result. If you don't mind my putting an unsolicited opinion out there, like I said last night, I really do think something is going on with you right now that has you unable to realize the impact of the rape and everything else is probably deeper and more serious than you think or want to accept.

I'm not going to get too into what "loose" or "slutty" especially because I really hate those terms and find them utterly useless and nonproductive. But for sure, it doesn't sound like you're making the healthiest choices right now. However, that doesn't surprise me, because I think right now you're not in a good space to make these kinds of choices at the moment, as I also talked to you about yesterday.

I have to also say that I think you having some time and space alone right now, outside social settings, while it might feel isolating, is probably safest for you for the time being.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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renyoj
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It probably was, but I have no idea why it happened. I looked some things up about triggers this morning, and I don't understand why any of that caused it. I mean I was more anxious with my ex than with him so I don't know.

I remembered what the rules are for her telling my parents, everything else it says she can't say unless I tell her too. But if it seems like I'll hurt myself, or something that's illegal to begin with, she has to tell my parents or the cops depending on what it is. So even if I did tell her about the rape, and told the cops, they can't force me to press charges or I can say it didn't happen right? But I'm also worried about talking about the relationships, since they weren't all great, and her tell my parents about that too. Because if she does, I'll get basically socially grounded until I'm out of the house and I'm going to a local college, which means I wouldn't be able to do anything for another five years.

This is why I didn't want my parents to know and why I don't want it to get to me, because even though he walked away and he's not around, he still wins. I don't get anybody or anything, and it'll end up being really hard to deal with and it's not fair that he gets the upper hand and controls the outcome.

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Heather
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Especially when a rape is so recent, even fully wanted sexual activities can pretty easily trigger. So, you don't have to be anxious to be triggered. As well, triggers aren't as logical as we'd think, and sometimes they are the smallest things. For instance, due to my grandfather's like of using his belt for abuse when I was a child, even though I was only around him for one or two summers, to this day, that whishing sound of someone removing their belt -- in any setting, even with people I know well and trust -- can be a trigger for me.

But it also sounded like on top of doing something sexual, the context was not so great, either. Your motivation for this seemed pretty unhealthy, too, and you even leaping to any kind of sex so soon after a rape may have been a post-traumatic or dissociative response all by itself.

If you disclose your rape to her, no, she cannot force you to report if you don't want to report. And she should not be telling your partners about your relationships or that rape without your permission.

I agree, it's not fair, but you do have the option of reporting still if that is something you want to talk about. And parents who would ground you for being raped would be something you could also report and remedy: to say that is a nonsupportive and unhealthy parental response is a pretty huge understatement.

(I am unclear as to why you are worried about being grounded for five years, as you'll be a legal adult who doesn't have to live at home in less than a year. But too, I think talking about how your parents might react to any of this is a secondary issue. I think it's much more productive to work out what you want and need first, so you and I both know your ideal, then talk about your parents, okay? I'm much less concerned about your being grounded for a while, or working that out, than I am about your whole well-being and you getting some help so you can stay out of danger and harm.)

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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renyoj
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But it shouldn't be like that, it's not fair to whoever's having sex. And it wasn't when me and him were having sex that it happened, but if that were the case it shouldn't be where I'm comfortable with doing that act and trigger a panic attack or anything else because of what happened. And I really did think about it, and the only thing I can think of was rubbing my butt. No I did do it for really stupid reasons and it wasn't a smart choice, I know that.

Ok, I'm just worried about that. I know before she thought I was dating someone really older than me, and had nearly called CPS because of it. And she always tells my parents when I was suicidal or anything like that, so I didn't know if she could tell them about that. How can I report, there's no evidence anymore I don't understand?

And it's not that they'd ground me neccessarily, and it wouldn't be that long but I can't stand when they but in about stuff. I don't want to be constantly checked up on or monitored or anything like that. And what's more is they'd be disappointed with me all at the same time. My mom went through this kind of crap with her parents and a few boyfriends, and we've had the talk about it and I'm supposed to know. If they found out everything, they'll just think I'm an idiot on top of having to baby me.

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Heather
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What shouldn't be like that: someone shouldn't be triggered with sex? If that's what you mean, by all means, it'd be great if rape never impacted anyone's sexuality, but that's just not how most of our minds and bodies work. As well, I have to say that so far, my feeling with you is that -- of late, maybe, or maybe period, since I don't know you that well -- you aren't really in touch with what is and isn't okay with you. In other words, your idea of what is or isn't is perhaps not very clear, and there may well be some measure of denial or dissociation going on. So, for right now, I'm just not sure you're in the best position to really experience whether or not you're comfortable or okay with things, because you've reported being okay with some things that really are just not okay.

Certainly, sexual abuse and/or rape often hijacking our sexuality to some degree or for some time is one of the after-effects that really sucks. But fair or not, it is what it is. Just know that often enough, when people really invest time and energy in healing from rape, and then choose partners and sexual situations that really are healthy and safe, it's something that can often be worked through. For example, I dealt with that on and off for some years, but really haven't had issues with that at all for the last 10 or so. But that had a lot to do with a) the passage of time, b) doing some more work on my own healing and c) continuing to learn to make the best sexual choices and choices in partnership I could.

Well, the fact that it seems you did have a rape kit done within 48 hours or less may well have resulted in some evidence: did you talk to the person doing the kit about that? All the same, anyone can still file a report even without evidence: not having physical evidence just makes it much harder to press charges. One thing to know, though, is that even with no evidence, if someone files a report against someone who has also had other reports filed against them (which is not unusual, as people who rape often do not only do so once or just to one person), that report can help support someone else's case where there may BE evidence, or support getting charges pressed against someone as a group even if no one had tangible evidence based on there being several reports.

As far as the issues where your parents go, it's tough for me to know what to say not knowing them. But what I do feel confident saying is that it seems clear to me that you could use some extra help in taking care of yourself and making god choices, and could probably stand to have someone -- parent or not -- to check in with you more often, to help you make sounder choices, because let's be honest, okay? It doesn't sound like it's working out very well right now for you to be making them on your own. That's not a diss on you: many of us, if not all, will have times when we don't do so well on our own, and very few people can thrive with zero support and help, even in the best of times, let alone when things have been or are in crisis.

However, again, I feel like leaping to what might happen with your parents is hasty and a bit of a distraction at this point.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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renyoj
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Yeah, they shouldn't be triggered just by sex. I mean what if this screws up everything for the next guy I'm with if I ever do date? I'm not a prude or anything and I don't want to completely freak out just by something sexual. People are people, and they're sexual it's just nature you know? I don't want to freak some guy out later on just because my latest ex was a prick to me.

What do you mean by

you aren't really in touch with what is and isn't okay with you.

Like my relationship and sexual choices or everything?

And they did do a rape kit last night but all that's going to show is that me and my ex had sex. The only thing I can imagine that would show up for the guy at the party would maybe some mess on my clothes but that's not evidence of rape I don't think. But everything with the guy that dumped me, he made me take a really long bath and wash everything off and out so there wouldn't be anything from him. And if I did report, I know it wouldn't get them in trouble because of my statements or anything but if I reported every incident like that that has happened? I don't know if the police would believe me or not, and what if they wouldn't take the reports or anything?

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Heather
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quote:
Yeah, they shouldn't be triggered just by sex. I mean what if this screws up everything for the next guy I'm with if I ever do date? I'm not a prude or anything and I don't want to completely freak out just by something sexual. People are people, and they're sexual it's just nature you know? I don't want to freak some guy out later on just because my latest ex was a prick to me.
If we give half a crap about someone, we're going to care about the life they have live and the hardships they have weathered. And having a partner with a history of abuse, sexual or otherwise, usually does mean dealing with some of the results of those abuses. But if our aim is caring for someone and getting close to them, whatever adaptations we may have to make just is not a big deal.

This may mean you need to choose your sexual partners more carefully, but it seems like you have needed to do that anyway. So, yes, some jerk just interested in getting his rocks off with the nearest available warm body may not be so sensitive and helpful in working with you to avoid and manage triggers. But someone like that a) isn't so helpful, period and b) isn't usually a safe person to be sleeping with.

I hear you with the "shouldn't be," but I think you need to let that go. The fact is that it often is, especially so freaking soon after a rape. As I told you before, sex and dating a mere day after a rape, and often days, weeks, sometimes even months, just isn't usually workable for people.

What I meant by "you aren't really in touch with what is and isn't okay with you" is that throughout our conversations, you have been pretty dismissive about the impact of certain things, or certain behaviours, shrugging some of them off as no big deal when we know -- we being people who work in these issues -- they are not. My sense is you're carrying around so much cumulative trauma, and trying so hard to just kind of blow it off that you're putting more energy in trying to feel that what isn't okay is rather than trying to get in touch with all of what's really going on and has gone on, acknowledging all of it IS a big deal and IS effecting you.

When you do a rape kit, yes, it is going to show evidence of sex. However, if the rape was violent, things like cervical bruising or vaginal tears are also often found. You can't bathe those things away.

If you are thinking about reporting the rape or other abuses, my personal suggestion would be to first get in touch with a rape or partner abuse advocate in your area first and talk to them. Sometimes, they can even come with you to file reports. Mind, the police should take reports regardless, and it's not about them believing you right then or not: the truth of a report is something to be determined when it is investigated, not at the time of the report.

--------------------
Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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renyoj
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I still don't think, caring or not, that'd it'd be really easy to deal with though. I mean Angel and Caden were that way, and whatever disagreement or getting upset about didn't ever last long. I guess that's part of a healthy relationship isn't it? I thought I had chosen carefully but that's obviously not true. But about what you said, about the guy just wanting to get his rocks off? I don't know exactly which one you meant, and I guess I'm going to sound defensive about this but I'm not trying to I just don't want anyone to misunderstand. Trevor pushed for me NOT to sleep with him, tried to get me to just go hang out and cook weenies and have fun. If Cayt wouldn't have blabbed I'm sure he would've been more enthusiastic about it, but he didn't know about the rape just that he had been a jerk and I got dumped. But he didn't push, coerce or force me to have any kind of sexual contact whatsoever. And I know that sounds defensive and offputting and I'm really, really sorry if it does I just didn't know which guy you were talking about and considering the usual events of my relationships I just wanted to make it clear that he didn't hurt me or anything.

And I guess that's just how I've always been with serious things, I'm not sure. And I mean you're right, I do that a lot especially here lately but that's how I've always done and grew up to do it. I don't know, maybe it's because of my dad I wouldn't doubt it but I'll just work on fixing it. Because you're obviously right, I mean I've religiously avoided the kitchen this week because of my puppy getting killed and that seems like what you're saying, avoiding it basically?

Can they use that evidence to prove it was someone in particular, even without sperm? Or is there any sure way to do that? If they can, and I don't have to be involved I'd probably do it. I just don't want it to be big news around here, or have to deal with him again.

My dad said that I'm going to talk to the lady on Monday. I don't know how good of an idea this is or not, but I was thinking I would just write down everything that's been going on, relationships and the stuff I've done, just kind of a list that I want to get through. Not sure if it'd help anything or not it was just an idea.

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Heather
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I wouldn't say it's easy to deal with, but in all truth, I think when we really open ourselves up with people -- and I'm talking about anyone, just any two or more people really connecting -- none of it is easy, per se. Rewarding? For sure, it usually is. But them, most rewarding things of any depth aren't easy.

I also want to make clear that none of what I'm saying here means those of us who have been raped or abused can't have casual sex when and if that's what we want. We can, and can do so healthfully when again, we're doing so with people who are safe for us in general, in situations where we do have some real self-awareness and where we can and do still set what limits and boundaries we need, and ask for whatever we need to to manage possible or known triggers. That being said, I'd say, from my own experience and that of others, that when you're first starting to learn to deal with all of this, it can be tougher to do so with very casual sex partners, especially if you're choosing them poorly or have not yet developed the specific tools you need to make that workable.

I'd also be wary of comparing one given relationship to any of this. Your friend was clearly a very, very traumatized and troubled person: my guess is without having had a lot of help he didn't, he was probably never yet in a position to have a healthy relationship, even with a fantastic partner who was deeply invested in him.

And I didn't make any assumptions about last night: I was more speaking in generalities, but also about the fact that you've made clear many of your previous partners have been abusive or unhealthy relationships. But it's always okay to call me (or anyone here) out when you think we may be making assumptions: you don't have to apologize for that.

Per the avoidance: yes, I think avoidance and denial have been real issues for you. As I have said before, given all you have been through of late, and how little in-person support you have had that's totally understandable, but I do think it's been a real issue.

In terms of the rape kit evidence, when evidence found is something with someone's DNA (and btw, they may have still found semen if he didn't use a condom: a shower or bath doesn't wash out the inside of the vagina), then it can be used to match someone specific. Things like bruising or tears can't, but that kind of evidence effectively supports that a rape/sexual trauma did occur, to corroborate your own reporting of by whom. Are you seriously thinking about reporting? If so, why don't we find an advocate for you that's local to your area so you can talk to them and find out the scoop with all of this where you are: all of this can tend to vary a lot from area to area, and what'd be ideal in your decision-making around this is for you to be equipped with the most accurate information possible. If you want me to try and find someone, just like with the volunteer stuff, drop me a zip code and I'll do some searching.

I think writing down all of this, maybe even just copying and pasting some of what you have posted here, is a great way to start with a counselor, especially if you feel like getting the words out verbally will be hard for you. Do you feel comfortable disclosing all of this right at the first appointment? It's good if you do, but also okay if you don't, and want to feel things out a bit with her first to establish more trust.

--------------------
Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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renyoj
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Of course it couldn't be easy, otherwise everyone would do it that way right? And I get the casual sex thing, I haven't ever taken it to an extreme and don't usually like doing it that way. I guess that's kind of hard to understand or believe considering last night, but I don't know why it didn't bother me. I had a few months stint when I was very casual, and wound up around the guy that tried crap last night. Like, I'd like have real relationships but sometimes I just take what I can get. Which I guess doesn't make me a whole lot better than that guy either. And I know, no relationships are the same and I shouldn't have even compared it to him anyway I never had a relationship like theirs.

I didn't really mean for it to sound like you were assuming but I did pretty much write it like that, sorry that's my fault. And most of them haven't been great, like I said I've never been with someone like Angel and Caden had. But some of them were ok. The only problems with Trevor ever were just that he had problems when he partied and drank, he'd get stupid and say stuff about everybody. But sexually, he probably was the best. And I don't mean that like it was great sex or whatever just the way he acted about it was really nice. And it was always the gaurunteed time that he'd put me before himself and make sure I was ok, but he didn't usually put himself before me anyway.

He didn't use a condom, but he made me wash everywhere. Even inside and outside of vagina and anus, but I don't know how much that would've gotten out. So if they found any sperm where I couldn't get it out and it's his, he'll get arrested or charged right? But what about Trevor, he won't right since it was consensual? And I really am thinking about it, I'm just not sure. The lady's going to know if I was raped or not I'm assuming, from the kit results. So if she does, and she can assure me about what's going to happen and everything I will.

The writing it down thing, I guess that's just more of a security thing. When I think in my head, everything makes sense. But I really suck at verbally talking to people and I tend to go in circles and get confused. If it's written down, though, I know exactly all the details and I won't get confused. But no, I don't want to spill everything on the first day, and I don't even think we'll be having any real talking the first day anyways, just revisiting and doing records and everything.

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Heather
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Simply finding semen -- which yes, they still could have -- and other results from the kit may or may not result in a charge and an arrest. There's more to it than that -- and you'd also still have to report and press charges -- but again, because all of this can vary so much form place to place, I'd prefer to get you in touch with an advocate in your area rather than talking about it myself, since I don't live where you live and have not before.

But no, simply finding someone's semen in your mouth from this other guy (and we can also have some conversations about STI testing for you later, too, as my guess is you haven't had any are are likely very overdue for that) doesn't men someone gets charged for a rape, unless we're talking about situations like statutory rape. Again, you'd have to report that as such and press changes.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
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renyoj
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I looked at the RAIIN website, they had a locator option. If I can get a friend to take me I'll go tonight, if not sometime early next week and just see what they can do. But from what I've read it sounds like they can do everything you said I need to have happen. And if I can do it today, I'll tell the lady all what they said to do and everything.

About the guy from the party though, he can be charged for rape just for that? I didn't know that was possible. And I used to go, just because of my mom said you should once you start menstruating and everything. But since then no, I guess just because when I was in a relationship it was monogamous so I didn't give it a second thought.

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Heather
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Per STI testing, the general rule is to go once a year, more often if you switch partners more often that that. If you haven't been in for a full year or more, and also had a full STI panel (including an oral one if you haven't used condoms for oral sex), I'd advise that. If you want it to cover the last few possible risks, schedule that for around a month from now.

Using the RAINN tools to find an advocate is totally fine. Just let me know if it doesn't result in you finding who you need, and I'll be happy to help.

Are statutory rape charges possible? Yes, they always are, if and when that is an issue. But to be frank, the onus is on the older person in that scenario to make smart choices for themselves that are lawful, not on the younger person.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
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Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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renyoj
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So I really need to go see someone then, it's been a really long time. I really don't think anything will show up though, I haven't ever felt sick from it, and the guys I've been with don't like condoms but they're constantly checked out by a Dr.

If it doesn't turn out to be helpful, I'll definitely just ask for some help. I just figured it's only an hour from here so why not try it out. And I got someone to take me so it looks like I'll be going once they get here.

He's right at the three year limit, so it wouldn't be statuatory for me. I guess there could've been pre-semen that they could've found, but he didn't mess in my mouth or anything either.

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Heather
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Just so you know, most STIs don't present symptoms or feeling of sickness people notice the majority of the time. As well, the guys that say they don't like condoms usually also are the guys who do NOT get tested, not those who do.

People very concerned about infections don't ditch barriers but go crazy with testing: that's just not something we tend to see on the clinical side. More often than not "I get tested all the time" as a response to not using condoms is a line.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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renyoj
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Oh...
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Heather
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If you think about it, you can follow the logic, after all, especially when you consider something like HIV being out there, which isn't treatable.

Know too that the stats I have seen on straight men getting tested usually come out to show something around every one guy getting tested to every 10 women who get tested. And since people getting tested often tends to have something to do with the social dynamics of their peer groups, I'd say it's safe to do that math with any of ours. Look at how many women in your peer group get regularly tested, for real, then see how many men in that group are saying they do. If it's WAY more men than women, it's safe to presume at least some of those guys are probably BSing.

Testing only tells us when we have contracted something or not: it's no kind of prevention. So, someone really concerned about STIs: why would they NOT to the most important pieces, the prevention pieces, when they would do the least important/helpful one? As well, guys who never use condoms also always being clear, miraculously, of infections at every time they want to sleep with you? Realistically and statistically, that's just not very likely.

Perhaps obviously, even if you are -- and again, I'd advise that -- taking a break from partnership right now, know that sexual partners putting their own pleasure (and condoms really don't inhibit that) over your health is another one of those red flags we have been talking about that signal someone who is either abusive, or just unlikely to give much of a damn about you. Not only would I encourage you not to have sex with partners who won't at least do all of safer sex for the first few months you need to to really help prevent STIs, I'd encourage you to choose partners who think your health is far more important than if they feel slightly different sexual sensations due to a scrap of latex, you know?

[ 08-22-2009, 05:45 PM: Message edited by: Heather ]

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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