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» Scarleteen Boards: 2000 - 2014 (Archive) » SCARLETEEN CENTRAL » Abuse & Assault » I don't know what to think about this... It wasn't rape

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Author Topic: I don't know what to think about this... It wasn't rape
renyoj
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My boyfriend has been acting different lately, and I don't really like it...

But we haven't gotten to be intimately close, and we both wanted it so we went out somewhere private and had sex. It was normal at first, and I did what he liked except he had a hold on my hair but not hurting it. Then he started to get really clumsy, but was getting rougher too still not hurting me.

I could feel him slip out but then he put it in the wrong place, without saying anything. He just told me to wait until it was all the way in and was being sweet he didn't make fun of me for crying or anything.

I couldn't concentrate but he finally started moving again and got me to lay more on my stomach until he finished and just pulled out. He said he was sorry about making me cry, and that it would've hurt worse if he hadn't finished because he's a grower.

And I mean, I got over that it wasn't the worst thing ever just really really hurt but it didn't bleed hardly or anything. But we got together last night, just to hang out and whatever, just not sex. And no matter what I did he just wouldn't stop touching my butt or talking about it or anything and he's never been like that before he did what he did. Whatever I do isn't as good as him doing that again, and I keep putting it off but it's what he wants.

Will it not hurt this time around, I don't want to upset him or anything I just really don't want to do it and I'm scared because that scared me so bad.

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Heather
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renyoj, I'm really sorry you had an experience like this, and that your boyfriend has behaved poorly since. I agree, it doesn't sound like a rape to me, because it sounds like you were consenting throughout. But it also certainly sounds deeply unpleasant.

Before we talk about anything else, have you talked to him about any of this?

I ask that for a bunch of reasons, one being that you're already asking about the next time when it sounds like unless all of this gets resolved, you're probably not going to really want to HAVE a next time, no?

[ 08-18-2009, 08:48 PM: Message edited by: Heather ]

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renyoj
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Yeah I never said no to him, but I wish I would've. And I've wanted to talk to him, and I've tried to it just doesn't work out. I asked him if he really got that I didn't like that, and that it caused problems after he did it, and he just looked at me all confused and said 'That's not what you were saying when I did it.'

It didn't really go any farther than that, and I didn't know what else to say. But it was kind of like it just didn't happen, and he went back to normal being nice and making me feel better. But when he started getting touchy again, he made it pretty obvious that it's still what he wanted.

And even if I did go to have sex with him again, we always do the position he likes eventually and I have no awareness of what he's doing until he does it. I'm just really scared about it, the way he did it hurt really bad but I don't have a way to stop it if he does it again.

But no, I've tried and he's tried but it's just like everything goes wrong and awkward and then neither of us want to talk about it.

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renyoj
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He pulled my hair when I tried to talk, just once because he thought I was accusing him. It didn't really hurt, but it's not like him.
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Heather
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His pulling your hair to silence you is absolutely not okay.

I'm really concerned when I hear you say you don't have a way to stop this if he does it again (per the sex). The thing is, if you feel that way, that really is everything you need to know to know NOT to be with him again. If in any sexual situation, it doesn't feel like you can always ask for a pause, let a partner know to change up something or stop altogether, what have you, and feel very firmly they will respond to that immediately, you know that situation just isn't safe.

I'd personally suggest you do NOT have another time, period, and if he's going to do things like pull your hair when you try and talk about this, I don't think it's a very good idea to be alone with him, period.

I hear you saying none of this is like him, and I understand he might not have acted like this in the past. But clearly, this is what he's like right now, and it's just not sounding very safe for you to me.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
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Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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renyoj
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I know but if I didn't drop it it'd just get worse for me. And he's never like that or done that beforee but he's a really big guy and I'm not helpless or anything always but I don't know what he'd do. I mean when we play fight and just tap each others faces, he always does it back and says I hit back. We're not actually hitting each other or anything though just weak little taps. But I don't know what he does when he gets mad and I don't want to find out either.

And I don't when we're having sex, but I never do. When we do what he likes he's got my legs pinned with his, my arms pulled back and my hair in a hold without pulling it. He's never done that before or anything so I've never had a problem with the position or what's going on during. It just feels like if I tried to pull away from that while he's doing it it'd wind up just hurting me more.

And there's a problem because I forgot that we set up tonight for a hang out night because my parents won't be here. I can't cancel either, we never hardly have time alone and that's when he's not pressured by being around my parents. And as far as I know, maybe he won't want sex? He was talking about going to a movie or at least renting one, and that he made a cake for us.

That doesn't sound like sex, right? And I can dress crappy so he doesn't think about it or anything. But if he does then how do I make him not want sex or anything? Because oral won't work, I've tried and it just makes it worse.

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Heather
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quote:
I know but if I didn't drop it it'd just get worse for me.
AND

quote:
And I can dress crappy so he doesn't think about it or anything. But if he does then how do I make him not want sex or anything? Because oral won't work, I've tried and it just makes it worse.
AND

quote:
I don't know what he does when he gets mad and I don't want to find out either.
Can you look at those statements again? because unless I am misunderstanding, you are saying, outright, that you are NOT safe with this person unless you a) do what they want or b) manipulate them to try and change their wants. You also seem to be saying you feel if he gets angry, you worry he will do you harm.

And that, again, is taking us into the realm of an abusive relationship, and a person who is just not safe for you, period, sex or no sex.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
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Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Heather
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FYI, I have a couple things I want you to take a look at:

• Blinders Off:Getting a Good Look at Abuse and Assault
• http://www.scarleteen.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/37/t/000003.html

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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renyoj
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He's not dangerous though, or abusive to me. I mean the only time he's hurt me before this came up was after we had sex, when he plopped down he landed on my shoulder a little bit. And that was a total accident, and he got me ice and made a temporary sling.

The only reason I'm really scared is because I know things aren't going great for him, and he's stressed and getting yelled at by everybody and can't really handle it by himself. And mostly why I'm scared is because I don't want to do anal sex again, and I guess he just assumes because I'm in that position I want to.

Isn't that just me being freaked out by the situation? I'm just really scared about the anal sex, I'm still not right from last week and I know I didn't say no but I wish I had and it just hurts.

I don't know, it just doesn't seem like he's abusive or anything, maybe I'm just worrying too much right?

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renyoj
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Checklist
[x] My partner is very jealous, gets jealous easily
[] My partner follows me around, checks up on me a lot
[] My partner tries to control how I dress or who I spend time with (friends, family, coworkers)
[] My partner yells, calls me names, puts me down
[x] I hide things that I think would upset or anger my partner (phone numbers, letters, photos)
[x] I am afraid to say no to sex (Sometimes)
[x] My partner threatens me, or has threatened me (That I'm his last chance, and he'd kill himself)
[]My partner hits, throws or breaks things when angry
[x] I am fraid to disagree with my partner (Sometimes)
[x] My partner has pushed, slapped, punched or otherwise hurt me (Once)
[]I feel like my partner's anger is my fault


I don't understand how it makes him abusive though, I mean abuse is calling someone a slut, hitting them, ignoring or raping them, that sort of thing isn't it? I mean he's only hurt me once, and I don't think it was totally on purpose..

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Heather
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Did you read the other piece on abuse? It offered some very clear explanations of all the things abuse can be.

But raping or hitting (though I'd like you to look at the hair-pulling incident again) or calling someone a slut are some ways to abuse someone, not all ways to do so. And abuse always starts somewhere: so, for now, he pulled your hair once. How many times do you have it happen again before you recognize that's not healthy or loving and either say something or get out of the relationship? Two times? Three? Ten? For that checklist, if next month you check two more things, then the month after that, two more, when will it be enough? See what I'm getting at?

You having all these fears of him is really important to pay attention to. When we are fearful of the people we are closest to, that tells us, very clearly, something is very wrong, and that usually, they are not safe. We should feel MOST safe with the people we are closest to.

Recognize, too, that abuse tends to develop and get worse over time. You've been talking about how he has been behaving differently lately, that all of this stuff has been amping up. That's fairly typical: abusive relationships tend to escalate over time.

I don't think you're worrying too much. And if this IS a healthy relationship, for real, then you should be able to talk to him about ALL of the stuff we have talked about hear without fear, even if it's awkward or hard or makes either of you feel uncomfortable. In a healthy relationship, we do not have to keep silent about things like not wanting sex, feeling fearful and like we can't have a voice, being afraid to say what we're feeling because it will make a partner angry. In a healthy relationship, we know that even if what we say makes a partner sad, angry or unhappy, they can manange their own feelings in a healthy way, and we can talk and work through stuff like this together where both parties are equally invested in the other's comfort and happiness.

[ 08-19-2009, 09:06 AM: Message edited by: Heather ]

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
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Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Heather
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P/S. This?

quote:
That I'm his last chance, and he'd kill himself
Is something abusers very, very typically say to people they are with. It's textbook, really.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
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Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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renyoj
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Yes, and the only times he acts belittling, I guess that's the right term, is when he honestly thinks I don't know. So it's not really belittling, he's just not that smart. And in the harrassment part, all idiot pervs are like that, being all touchy and stuff. And my boyfriend stopped after a while when he could tell it was really bugging me. But what about the hair pulling thing, exactly? And he's not a rapist, he's never done that to me.

But once things calm down, he will too I mean he can't help it and I have the same thing sometimes. You can't always help when you're stressed out right? And even before this stuff happened, he was stressed out and it just seems like sex is a release. I mean he'd used to do it, and it'd be fine and great with no problems and would so much more relaxed afterwards. I just don't understand how that stuff is abuse, I mean it doesn't seem that bad except the one time he did something and abuse is supposed to be really bad.

Since he's coming over tonight, does that mean I need to try and talk to him, like you said? I really do think it could be worked out..

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renyoj
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Yeah but the only reason he says that is because for one, he doesn't think he'll be going anywhere in life and besides me doesn't have anything worthwhile, and I'm the youngest woman he's dated and the rest treated him like shit. From what I know, they were abusive to him, and made him do stuff.
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Heather
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If you really think it can all be worked out and that he can change these behaviours, by all means, you can't get to that without talking to him, openly and honestly, and without pussyfooting around. Can you do that? If you feel safe to do that, and honestly think this is a healthy relationship, by all means, that is the thing to do. I responded as I did because up until right now, you seemed to be saying you could NOT have these conversations with him, because "if you didn't drop it it'd get worse for you," and such.

You can't always help when you are stressed, but you can control your own emotions and still treat the people around you with care and kindness. And if you feel you just don't have patience for anyone else because of your stress, you can let those people know you need some time to yourself to manage your feelings.

Healthy sex isn't about one person acting out stress on another in the way you're describing, for the record. That makes it not about the other person involved.

I don't know how else to explain more about what makes abusive dynamics abusive than I did in that piece I linked you to. The best I can do is give you this kind of information and then have you make your own best assessments, and encourage you to trust your feelings and intuition as well as your own mind.

Lastly, abuse rarely starts "really bad." It can get really bad, but a) it usually starts subtly or slowly, then escalates over time and b) the effects of abuse tend to be long-term, not just short-term. In other words, people who have been in abusive relationships, even when they get out of them, will often find the emotional scars of abuse, or the way they were conditioned to behave in abuse, linger. As well, it's important to recognize that we can't say what does harm and make it only about physical injury (which often tends to heal more easily and quickly than the emotional kind). Relationships aren't just about what happens to us in them physically, after all, but emotionally, psychologically, intellectually.

When a relationship is healthy, it can benefit us in all those areas, which everyone is in agreement with. So, it makes no sense to say when it does us harm, rather than good, in those ways, it's null or isn't unhealthy. Get my drift?

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Heather
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quote:
Yeah but the only reason he says that is because for one, he doesn't think he'll be going anywhere in life and besides me doesn't have anything worthwhile, and I'm the youngest woman he's dated and the rest treated him like shit. From what I know, they were abusive to him, and made him do stuff.
Trouble is, that sounds like another common line. The problem wasn't HIM, see but that all other women were crap (doubtful: also doubtful given his behavior so far with you that he wasn't the abusive one, and it's very typical for abusive people to put the blame on those they mistreat). And his life sucks -- nevermind that it's up to him if he "goes somewhere in life" -- so you have to make it all better. Again, this is pretty typical stuff.

Can I ask you plainly how this relationship has been benefitting you? What does it give you? Does it make you really happy most of the time? Does it feel like a great place for you both to grow? Does it benefit all the other areas of your life? Does it make you feel like your best self? Do you feel at peace when you're in it?

I do feel like I want to point out that you posted this thread in the abusive relationships section. Can I ask why you did that, and felt like this was the best place for it?

[ 08-19-2009, 09:51 AM: Message edited by: Heather ]

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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coralee
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Hey renyoj, that sounds so much like this relationship that I was in once. He would tell me that I'm everything to him, and when I tried to break up with him (and then we got back together, unfortunately) he told me he had wanted to get in a car accident and die because I left him. At first I would feel flattered that I meant so much to him, but then anytime I didn't please him I would feel really guilty and worthless. And though I knew I had talents and good qualities in other areas, I started to feel like I was bad at everything except for pleasing him and that pleasing him was the only thing I had in life and the only thing I was good at.

So my point is that if your guy acts this way, you have to ask yourself, does this truly make you feel valued? In my case I just lied to myself that he valued me when really I just felt worse and worse about myself.

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