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Author Topic: Careless sexual decisions
techie
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I really hoped I'd stop having to use this website at some point... I feel like I'm still making the same mistakes when I was 15.

Essentially, I'm gay. And I'm cool with that. But there are two guys that I'm doing sexual activity with right now. (Er, not literally.)

Guy #1 is a long distance friends-with-benefits situation, with great communication and arrangements, we know when we're going to have sex, because we have to travel in order to do it, (and what we'll do instead if those times come and it turns out neither of us are up for it), and its just sort of... a fun mutual activity between friends that involves orgasms. All good.

Guy #2 is my best friend here at university. He has a (abusive) girlfriend. Every time we've done anything sexual it's come from a place of deep emotional vulnerability from at least one of us, and has ended with us saying "let's pretend that never happened". It's a secret, and I feel totally dirty and awful afterwards, and it isn't fun, and I'm gay so... fun is really the only thing I expect to get out of sex with men. It doesn't 'do it' for me any other way.

I'm going to go see Guy #1 fairly soon, and I'm worried that having sex with -him- is going to make me feel all disgusting and awful, because that's just how I'm starting to feel about sex right now.

I also have no idea why I keep getting together with Guy #2, because neither of us are getting anything out of it. I've basically ended up describing it as "rather than a shoulder to cry on, you need a shoulder to sleep with", and... well, that. He's my best friend, and he lives a five minute walk away, so I go to him for emotional support. And then it just ends up in bed, and I feel even worse. I don't feel like I can talk to him about it because he's got pretty awful guilt issues about the girlfriend thing, which she perpetuates, and I don't want to make him feel worse.

It's all very messy and confusing and there's nobody irl I can talk to about it because of the whole "I'm the other woman" thing.

Posts: 144 | From: England | Registered: Apr 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Robin Lee
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Hi Techie,

You know, I don't think there's any point in life at which we're supposed to have things figured out, or at which we're supposed to be able to avoid doing things that we later realize are mistakes. So, first of all, cut yourself a little bit of slack here, okay? [Smile]

I hear you describing your involvement with Guy No. 2 as the two of you just ending up in bed together. Unless someone forces us to do something (which it doesn't sound like is happening in this situation) we always, always choose what we do, even if it feels like we're being carried along on the tide of something outside of us. We're actually still making a choice. Does that make sense?

So, given how uncomfortable and icky you're feeling about this interaction, do you think you can decide that you're not going to do this anymore? It might help to come up with a what you'll actually do and say instead, when things start following the course that they generally do.

Would it be helpful to talk here about how you might deal with this situation with guy No. 2 next time it comes up?

I'm also wondering: Does Guy No. 1 know about Guy No. 2? If so, is this something you could share with him to get some support and caring around something you're clearly feeling really alone with?

What do you think would help you feel more positive about sex right now?

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Robin

Posts: 6066 | From: Washington DC suburbs | Registered: Dec 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
techie
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There's no force involved, but the consent is a bit... dubious. Like, I've gone round and said "Look, I just want to do kissing", or "I feel like a mess, I really don't want to do anything", or "I've just taken a really strong painkiller that totally knocks me out and I flat out can't give good consent with this"... and it's still happened. It's like, I let him kiss me and I kiss him back, and he just sort of assumes consent for the rest. I'm not saying no, but I'm not really saying yes, a lot of the time? I'm just kind of choosing the path of least resistance. Which is an icky place to be having sex in.

Guy #1 does know about Guy #2, but his view is "I don't even know why you're friends with him, but that's your call", and that's not the most helpful position to give support from.

Posts: 144 | From: England | Registered: Apr 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Robin Lee
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Yes, that is an icky place in which to be doing anything sexual, and is not, from the sounds of things, fully consensual.

Guy No. 2 is, from what you describe, not hearing anything you're saying, which is very much not okay. It seems pretty likely that he is, whether he intends to or not, doing this for his needs, not really considering you at all.

You said that he has an abusive girlfriend. Its possible that he's repeating the patterns of abuse with you that he experiences from her.

That's very much not okay. Even if that's not what is happening, being sexually involved with you is not a good solution to his problems at all. Being in an abusive relationship, for him, is not at all a sound place from which to be making decisions about other sexual encounters.

This is about you, though, not about him.


I'm frankly concerned for your emotional, and even physical, safety here.


I'd suggest not putting yourself in a position where you are alone with him. What do you think?

In terms of Guy NO. 1, when do you see him? do you feel like you're in a good space for sex with him right now? If not, you can always let him know that, and let him know what you *are* in a good space for.

[ 11-11-2013, 09:40 AM: Message edited by: Robin Lee ]

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Robin

Posts: 6066 | From: Washington DC suburbs | Registered: Dec 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
techie
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[TW: Suicide, abuse]

Guy #1 I'm seeing this weekend. I don't know if I'm in a good space for sex with him right now, but I'd enjoy spending the time with him anyway, and we've already talked it out that if I get there and one or both of us is "meh" in regards to sex, we'll just order in pizza and play video games. I don't really want to feel gross about having sex with him though, it's something we've had planned for a few weeks (b/c long distance) and I've been looking forward to it. I know that whatever happens, this weekend will be okay? But obviously I want it to be the weekend that I planned.

I have no idea -what- needs Guy #2 is getting fulfilled though. I mean, I don't do anything for him - we've had intercourse once (fastest twenty seconds of my life), and that was a bit crap for both of us (and only really came about because of a misunderstanding), and I've given him a handjob once, and that was... well, meh. So, we've been doing stuff since the end of September/beginning of October, and I've given him all of two orgasms. He certainly never -seems- any happier afterwards, and he seems to be as clueless towards his own motivations as I am, aside from "I'm a guy, I'm always horny" or "you're very attractive, I can't help it".

It's difficult to not be alone with him though? I mean, aside from the sex, I really really enjoy his company, and it's not like I can go "hey, friend, can you chaperone while the two of us play video games in my room in case he tries to have sex with me"?

I don't want to say anything to him that will make him feel bad, because that's what his girlfriend does to him. It's all "Don't you know [thing he didn't even know happened and has nothing to do with him] happened and is totally your fault?" and "I told you I was fine but actually I wanted to kill myself and the fact that you just said 'I'm glad you're okay' means you obviously just want me to go do it". Like, I feel like if I go "I didn't say no, but actually afterwards I felt totally crap" and the implied "and it's all your fault" is just going to be another one of those messages.

Posts: 144 | From: England | Registered: Apr 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Robin Lee
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Okay, so you haven't told him before that you didn't feel good about this, and I certainly get why you wouldn't be comfortable cluing him in on past feelings. For what it's worth, I think you have the right to, but it's totally your call, and you know him best, so you know whether that would be useful or not. I also get wanting to take responsibility for not having spoken up before now.It'ssound and fairto take responsibility for things we actually did or didn't do. [Smile]

You do get to move forward from here,though. Just because you didn't speak up before doesn't mean you can't speak up now for what you want now and in future.

Do you want this to stop? It sounds like you do, because you want to stop feeling bad, and want it to stop affecting how you feel about sex with other people, but I just want to make sure I understand you.

If you do want this to stop, you're going to need to do something to make it stop. That might not feel good. It might affect your friendship. These are realities. Your friend having a hard time, and being abused by his girlfriend, doesn't actually give him carte blanche to do whatever he wants. He still is capable of making decisions, and so him stepping over boundaries you've set has been him deciding to step over them. That's more of what I meant when I talked about you meeting whatever his emotional needs are right now.

So, if you still want to spend time with him, and want to break this pattern, you're going to have to speak up for yourself. [Smile] You've already been letting him know at the outset what you do and don't want. Next ttime he steps past the boundaries you set, do you think you're up for speaking up for yourself and reminding him that you already said you didn't want to do anything, or only wanted to kiss, or whatever boundary you set?

[ 11-11-2013, 10:58 AM: Message edited by: Robin Lee ]

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Robin

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techie
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Yeah, no, I do want it to stop. It's making me feel like total utter crap.

I guess I can speak up next time he messes up, but I just know he'll feel awful afterwards and then I'll feel guilty and blahhh. But maybe that's better than feeling absolutely crap afterwards. And if it means we can still hang out and do the stuff we enjoy without it getting messy, that's a definite upside.

Thanks for the advice, I really appreciate it.

Posts: 144 | From: England | Registered: Apr 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Robin Lee
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You're welcome.

It's not your responsibility to do things you don't want to do so your friend won't feel bad. That really isn't fair for either of you. [Smile]

If you need to talk about this some more, you know where to find us. [Smile]

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Robin

Posts: 6066 | From: Washington DC suburbs | Registered: Dec 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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