posted
Hi Scarleteen. so kind of embarrassing but straight up, im probably on the older end of your spectrum of readers. but in the messy world of information on the internet, ive found this site to be an absolute goldmine of educated responses - so now im here to try and get one of my own!
basically, im paranoid about getting my girlfriend pregnant (and yep, im looking into my own counselling for this externally too as im pretty sure its tied to existing anxiety). it's probably best to assume my sex-ed is minimal, as it's all extremely new to me. we've not engaged in any direct genital-to-genital intercourse, and have up until now, only engaged in dry humping/oral sex/manual sex. if we're dry humping and im in less than jeans (though not naked), I tend to throw a condom on. ive not ejaculated directly onto her genitals at all (though have underneath my layers when dry humping while in jeans/shorts) and wash my hands before engaging in anything manual with her.
so after reading all the material on your site, ive come for a bit of reassurance I suppose:
- is it irrational to be paranoid about things like semen/precum soaking through clothing and causing pregnancy if we're grinding, even if I can see moisture through my jeans post-ejaculation sometimes and I know that she's been on top of me there?
- will a rinse/handwash after coming into contact with semen be sufficient to kill sperm prior to engaging in anything manual?
- regarding a specific situation, I ejaculated in my underpants after dry-humping, went to clean up with some wet wipes and changed my underpants completely. this is going to sound crazy but - 'what if' in that process, a bit of semen was on my thigh that I missed (say, when removing the underpants it brushed up against my thigh), then my girlfriend sat on that thigh while naked after I jumped back into bed with her a few minutes later? just typing this out is making me shake my head but yeah, I guess this is the sort of thing I need help understanding. it's hard to talk about when people assume you already know these things by a certain age!
thanks very much.
Posts: 9 | Registered: Oct 2011
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posted
I wouldn't worry - you've acknowledged that you may have a little anxiety around this, and if you're sex ed has been less than informative about risks, then that's perfectly understandable.
No, sperm calls cannot pass through jeans. The only time gential-to-gential contact through clothing would be a problem is if there was only one - that is, only one of you - wearing something very thin, like lace. Sperm cells do not have the ability to pass through even two layers of thin clothing - let alone jeans - even if there is a wet patch, this is not something to worry about pregnancy-wise.
The only way for manual sex to be a viable pregnancy risk is if you were literally inserting handfuls of fresh ejaculate into your partner's vagina. The cells are not really strong enough to survive on hands. Washing hands would make absolutely sure that there are no cells on your hands at all, let alone enough to cause a pregancy risk; so no, this is also nothing to be concerned about.
The situation with your thigh is the same as with your hands - sperm can't be transfered onto to different places and then back onto genitals like that, let alone from underwear to a thigh to a vulva.
I know what you mean about people assuming you know this already, no worries.
We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. - Elie Wiesel Posts: 1231 | From: England | Registered: Oct 2010
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posted
Hi RaeRay - first of all, thanks a lot for the response, this information is certainly helping ease my nerves, though id love to ask a few follow up questions -
regarding the jeans, would it be right of me to say that chances are high the wet patch is simply soaked semen without any sperm cells, meaning that while it's damp it's simply the 'transportation medium' that's soaking through as opposed to actual, viable, spermatozoa?
the manual sex response makes sense - though as the internet scare-mongered me on that particular point, can I ask is the necessity for there to be a substantial amount of fresh ejaculate on the finger as opposed to simply a few drops due to the damage that sperm are susceptible to when being transferred across surfaces? are they really that fragile?! is this why the supplied article outlines that a direct ejaculation on the vulva is a high risk activity, as no intermediary mediums are involved between the ejaculate and vulva?
thanks again, your understanding is very much appreciated Posts: 9 | Registered: Oct 2011
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You're right - jeans can be completely soaked with semen, although semen does contain sperm cells (less than 5% of semen is sperm cells) - but the actual sperm cells cannot travel through material, unless it is incredibly thin. However, semen - the transportation medium- can. So the jeans can feel soaked with semen on both sides, but the actual sperm cells in that semen are very delicate and cannot make it through the jeans onto your partner's vulva. It is simply the transportation medium you're feeling on your jeans.
I understand what you mean about the internet, it's a minefield out there for misinformation about pregnancy risks. Yes, the sperm cells (like all cells) are really that fragile! Not only can they not be transported on hands (or any other skin that isn't a vulva or inside a vulva (unless you really, really tried to create a pregnacy by inserting fresh handfuls - dripping with semen) it also takes many, many sperm cells to actually create a pregnancy. Even though it only takes one to fertlize an ovum, the others are needed.
Here is an extract from one of Scarleteen's article's on creating a pregnancy:
"Because the sperm are super-sensitive to the environment outside the testes (or "balls"), only about 50 of sperm in an ejaculation will be able to reach an egg. That is why the body produces so many, because most of them die en route".
The sperm cells in a few drops of semen on your hand would just die.
Yes, that is why direct ejaculation on the vulva is a high risk activity. The cells do not survive from penis to hand to vulva; but do survive from penis to vulva. This is because vaginal fluids from inside the vulva are also needed to help the sperm cells swim into the vagina, on their way towards an ovum. A vulva is just the kind of environment sperm cells need to survive and can swim into the vaginal opening on the vulva - a hand is merely skin that they can dry up and die on.
We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. - Elie Wiesel Posts: 1231 | From: England | Registered: Oct 2010
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logically, that makes perfect sense and I think most of my worries about the wet patch are now settled.
given the extraordinary rate that sperm appear to be dying on their way to the egg, id have to be pretty unlucky for a small quantity of semen to impregnate without direct contact or a conscious effort then. I had no idea they were so fragile, for some reason (internet) I had the impression they were resilient and could survive through all sorts of barriers in order to get to their destination. thanks for that link.
can I also just ask (please let me know if this is against board rules, i.e. chaining questions like this in a single thread), the internet has also done me the favour of making me ridiculously paranoid about precum and its potential to impregnate - as someone who tends to have a fair bit upon being aroused, just how potent is the stuff? ive given this article a read (http://www.scarleteen.com/article/advice/can_pre_ejaculate_cause_pregnancy) and im not considering attempting the withdrawal method or anything, but im curious to know whether the same deal would apply for precum as it does for semen i.e. you'd need direct contact with genitals for it to pose much of a pregnancy risk? if that's the case, would giving the area around my penis a quick wipe down with a wet towelette prior to slipping on a condom be a reasonable safeguard against pregnancy if my girlfriend and I begin to have intercourse? only as im not always fully erect when precum begins to seep making a condom at that point somewhat ineffective (as it slides off).
thanks soo much .. you've made this so easy to discuss.
Posts: 9 | Registered: Oct 2011
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posted
It's not against the board guidelines - this is your thread about preganancy risks - ask as many questions as you like. We only ask that users do not start a thread about the same risk more than three times, so you're all good.
Pre-ejaculate does not, all by itself, contain sperm cells. However, a sperm cells may be left in your uretha from your last ejaculation and can be flushed out by the pre-ejaculate, epecially if you have not urinated since last ejaculating. It is less risky than ejaculate - but you're right, if there is gential contact a risk may be present.
Condoms won't fit onto a penis in its resting state, so it would be best to refrain from direct gential contact until more erect and protected with a condom. Condoms for vulvas ('Female condoms') are good in this sense, because the cover more or all of the vulva (depending on the size of the vulva) when held in place by your partner.
Wiping the penis before putting on a condom isn't needed, no matter how much pre-ejaculate there is. This is because a condom should cover all on the pre-ejaculate when used properly. However, if you feel better wiping first, then go for it. If you start to put it on the wrong way and get pre-ejaculate on it, it is safest to throw that one away and open a new one to use. If you aren't sure, it's best to practice using condoms before relying on them for protection during intercourse.
We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. - Elie Wiesel Posts: 1231 | From: England | Registered: Oct 2010
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posted
fantastic, I'll use the opportunity to get as much information as I can then
I've just given both links a read and it's fantastic knowing all this - I feel like I've got more control (read: less paranoia) knowing how to work everything in that respect, and will be practicing for sure.
unfortunately, I tend to produce a *lot* of pre-ejaculate, enough to soak through underpants with ease. this is the root of much of my paranoia as simply seeing it all upon being stimulated, I immediately get concerned about my girlfriend coming into contact with the fluid, which can kill the moment. when I say wipe the area, im referring to my lower pelvis/lower shaft too as it really does get everywhere what you've said there regarding the nature of pre-ejaculates composition is in alignment with what the more logical responses I've come across the net have said, so im glad to be hearing it again - but id still need a globful with direct contact to pose a risk right? I know me, and ill be contemplating 'what if' I missed a spot when cleaning before intercourse, and then getting concerned about pregnancy again - so knowing it'd take a fair bit will probably help ease my worries there as it's less likely id miss a globful.
as a backup method of protection, is spermicidal lube advisable? I noticed the site endorses the water based ones, though im not sure why spermicidal wouldn't be a great way to have an easy backup.
posted
It doesn't really matter how much pre-ejaculate there is - it does not contain sperm cells. However, whether there is a tiny amount or a huge amount it could possibly flush out a tiny amount of sperm cells that are left in your penis.
The sperm cells in pre-ejaculate (if there are any there at all) are the same as those in semen - they cannot travel through underwear. If you are worried about the underwear being too thin, one possible solution may be that both people keep their underwear on. You're right; it is only direct gential contact with pre-ejaculate that can pose a small risk. It doesn't matter at all if you 'miss a spot' - it needs to be direct contact between a penis and a vulva.
So, an idea here might be to keep underwear on for any direct gential contact until you are errect enough to use a condom. I would suggest having lots of practice with using condoms before you choose to have intercourse. Otherwise you may worry that there is pre-ejaculate on the condom inside the vulva - which may pose a low risk. Only use condoms for intercourse when you are sure that you have wiped the entire area free of pre-ejaculate before covering the penis with the condom, and that the condom is right way round - as this will ensure it will cover any possible sperm cells from pre-ejaculate that may be left on the penis.
If you still don't feel safe, it might be idea to hold off intercourse until you are confident that you have minimized your risk as much as possible, as it can never be zero.
I did find a link about spermicidal lubricant which did say to avoid it if possible, and gave some reasons why (in the top part of the answer):
However, using a back up to condoms is good way to get your risk as close to zero as it's ever going to go. Here is a link to some good back up ideas for both you and your partner. Spermicide is listed, so if you and your partner both agree that that's what you want, and she is aware that it may make sex feel less pleasant fo her; and that it's a genital irritant, it could be an idea.
We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. - Elie Wiesel Posts: 1231 | From: England | Registered: Oct 2010
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posted
it's like you actually know me personally haha - worrying that pre-ejaculate is on the condom inside the vulva is something that has been on my mind already (as in, concerned of the possibility). I'll be getting plenty of practice in then in order to be much more confident when handling it all.
based on those articles, heather's statement that spermicidal lubricant would only be effective in terms of breakage - at which point EC is recommended - does make sense, id probably push for Plan B at that point too as opposed to taking solace in the fact that the spermicidal agent was used.
this is going to seem like a basic question, but with regards to how sperm travel - if sperm are deposited on the outside of the vulva, do they need to be pushed upwards into the vagina or are they strong enough to swim upwards with the mixture of semen and vaginal fluid present with a similar level of effectiveness?
id love to be able to double up to really cement our safety and protection from pregnancies, so this is a conversation ill be having with her prior to us doing anything I think.
thanks again RaeRay - though I suspect my questions are far from over, you've done fantastically to ease my nerves on the subject!
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posted
Checkmate70: Love the name . Generally, any time ejaculate or pre-ejaculate come into contact with the vulva or vagina there's a risk of pregnancy, because sperm and a woman's own lubrication work together to make it more easily possible for pregnancy to occur. So as a general rule you want to make sure in terms of preventing pregnancy there's no genital-genital contact OR pre-ejaculate/ejaculate-genital contact without a method of protection being used.
-------------------- "Sometimes the majority only means that all the fools are on the same side" ~Anon Posts: 3365 | From: Pennsylvania | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
Thanks Stephanie! duly noted, hopefully ill be able to work through the anxiety and think a little more rationally about it all based on what both you and Rae have provided here. It can be a bit overwhelming thinking so emotionally as opposed to looking at the facts, but hearing the facts repeated back to me over and over does well to help cement them Posts: 9 | Registered: Oct 2011
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posted
It's always a good plan to take everything very, very slowly if you feel anxious, and make sure you're absolutely emotionally ready to engage in sex - whether that all kinds of sex of just the types can carry risks of pregnancy.
Sex is a lifelong learning process that comntinues to develop as we get older. Even in our eighties, we will all be learning new things about our sexualities and sexual lives. There's never any rush if you don't feel absolutely 100% right - whether that's now or fifty years from now. Partnered sex can always be taken off the table while we focus on our own feelings and emotional wellbeing.
Here are some links if you ever feel like slowing down is going to be a good idea for you:
We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. - Elie Wiesel Posts: 1231 | From: England | Registered: Oct 2010
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posted
so it's been a long time since October but I'm back with a few more questions guys, once again any assistance is appreciated
my concerns are once again related to pre-ejaculate though are somewhat localised this time - whilst I am aware that clothing does well to impede the movement of any viable sperm cells in pre-ejaculate, I'm wondering if this holds true for fabrics that are somewhat less rigid i.e., bathing suits. hypothetically, if I were in a pool/hottub with my girlfriend, became sexually aroused and began to leak pre-ejaculate, is there a risk that the water we're submerged in can be used to transport these sperm cells to create a pregnancy risk?
ahhh it's so frustrating thinking like this I tell you what, im convinced this can't be normal Posts: 9 | Registered: Oct 2011
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No, sperm aren't strong enough to travel even one bathing suit, let alone two. They also cannot travel through water. Water kills sperm, just like air does, and being on hands or anything that isn't a penis or a vulva.
The only time sperm could possibly travel through clothing is if it was only one layer between two sets of gentials pressed together. That one layer would also have to be extremely thin and threadbare - or lace with holes in.
It's very common to worry about pregnancy. After all, it's a pretty big thing to many people.
May I ask if you've chosen to take sex off the table for now, just to see where you're at with this since we last spoke?
Just a clarifying question on the lives of sperm for lack of a better phrase, I understand air doesn't immediately kill sperm - would the same rules apply in water or would their life be affected differently?
It's huge, right? it's just I feel like most people don't obsess over it but maybe that's all just an experience thing.
Certainly, we've agreed sex isn't something we'll be engaging in until we both feel ready, whether that be sooner or later - I feel like there is zero pressure between us which makes it all much easier Posts: 9 | Registered: Oct 2011
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posted
Well, it isn't so much that air or water 'kill' sperm cells - that was just sloppy phasing on my part, my apologies.
Although sperm cells themselves are very fragile (millions die on the route to an egg), it makes more sense to talk about sperm mobility than whether they're dead or alive. Once the 'transportation device' (Semen) has been exposed to air or washed away in water, the sperm cells cannot go anywhere.
So, when the cells are away from the inside of bodies; which they're designed for, they will become imobile. Water, like in a jacuzzi, would wash away all the semen (the 'transportation device') which the sperm cells need to be able to go anywhere. The semen would be immediately dispelled in water. It doesn't matter if imobile sperm cells are dead or alive; they can't go anywhere.
That sounds great about waiting to engage in sex.
Well, just as some people are scared of the dark more than others, or scared of illness or spiders; people vary. However, if you feel obsessed, like the fear of pregnancy is harming your day-to-day life; it may be an idea to seek out therapy for anxiety.
[ 12-28-2011, 05:56 AM: Message edited by: Seashy Rae ]
-------------------- ~ Ray Scarleteen Volunteer
We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. - Elie Wiesel Posts: 1231 | From: England | Registered: Oct 2010
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posted
Thanks for clarifying that, that makes a lot of sense regarding their mobility. Given that they're both fragile and reliant on what seems to be a 'transportation device' which needs to be relatively pure and unadulterated to get anywhere, it makes sense that water would dispel the likelihood of impregnation without direct genital contact. asides from semen, a woman's natural lubrication would be the only other 'accessible' medium for sperm to remain mobile in then?
True - and although educating myself with the assistance of your responses and this sites fantastic resources has made me feel so much more empowered, I can't help but still have those 'freak out' moments! Perhaps that's indicative I do need to seek something more, and ill be pursuing that in the new year.
Thanks again Rae
Posts: 9 | Registered: Oct 2011
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what you've said there regarding the nature of pre-ejaculates composition is in alignment with what the more logical responses I've come across the net have said, so im glad to be hearing it again - but id still need a globful with direct contact to pose a risk right? I know me, and ill be contemplating 'what if' I missed a spot when cleaning before intercourse, and then getting concerned about pregnancy again - so knowing it'd take a fair bit will probably help ease my worries there as it's less likely id miss a globful.
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