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I've been having issues with my boyfriend for the past few months. He's dismissive, talks down to me, and generally doesn't take me seriously anymore. Sometimes he'll apologize and stop giving me a hard time but there's always an excuse for being sarcastic and mean spirited to me. It's hot and cold.
I was thinking about breaking up with him, and then this weekend happened. We both got drunk at his apartment with a bunch of friends. I fell asleep next to him at around 3, and was partially woken up to him yanking my pants down. It's hard to remember because I was really out of it and still drunk, but all I remember was waking up to him fingering me anally really hard (it still kind of hurts) and telling me to take my tampon out. I don't remember much else, but I know we had sex and I later cleaned up and fell back asleep. I felt really violated and asked him about it, but he laughed it off and said he had still been drunk. I was out of it all day and didn't talk to him about it.
Now these hazy memories are starting to come back - that this has happened before... I've fallen asleep completely exhausted and passed out and have woken up to find that we had had sex and I wasn't aware of it. I don't know why I never said anything to him about it, I guess I put it out of my mind, but now i feel so used and stupid, and I don't know what to do next. I want to break up with him but I don't know what on earth I'm going to say to him. I'm upset and I don't know if I'm being overdramatic about this. Am I justified for being so freaked out? Is it my fault that I didn't say anything about it before? I feel lost.
Posts: 17 | Registered: Dec 2011
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I hear you describing a sexual assault and what also sounds like a history of possible emotional abuse. I don't think taking issue with either of those things is being overdramatic. Both of them are serious, and both of them are also crimes (and that doesn't change because or if someone who did assaulting was themselves intoxicated: having drank is not a get out of jail free card with sexual assault).
It also sounds like your boyfriend does not take any of this seriously, which suggests you are really unsafe continuing to be intimate with this person and if you stay intimate with this person, can expect all of these behaviors to continue and to continue to escalate like they already have.
The person whose fault assault always is -- ALWAYS -- is the person who chooses to assault someone, not the person who has been assaulted.
Suffice it to say, we will always strongly advise that anyone who has discovered they are not safe with someone -- as you clearly have, more than once -- does all they can to protect themselves from more danger and gets and stays away from that person. It sounds like you already know that's what you need to do for yourself, which is great.
How can we help you move that forward?
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63244 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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Wow, thanks for the fast response. I guess I just need some reassurance for the way I'm feeling.
I never thought I would find myself in this situation, I always imagined that if someone was mistreating me it would be so much more obvious (like him slapping or hitting me, or yelling at me) but I guess the way he was treating me was more subtle. It was a lot of little things, and I just can't wrap my head around the idea that he really was being that unfair to me. The way things started off, I never would have imagined that he would do something that falls under the category of assault... but that's usually how it goes. I keep coming up with excuses for his behavior but I figure it's still wrong to do what he did.
I'm wondering where to go next, I've been kind of freaking out with exams coming up and having to face the facts about this. How do I end things? I was going to head to his apartment (it's small, there are several roommates there so I wouldn't be completely alone) and tell him we need to end things and leave. Should I give him an explanation or tell him what he'd been doing is wrong? I'm afraid he's going to try and convince me that it's my fault for not saying something before...
Posts: 17 | Registered: Dec 2011
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What you're saying about your expectations with assault and unhealthy relationships is something we hear people say a lot, as does anyone who works in advocacy with these issues. A lot of people have the expectation that abuse is kind of a dramatic, Jeckyll and Hyde kind of thing where an abusive person just starts abusing someone in the most violent ways right at the gate or out of nowehere.
But that's not usually how it happens: what's more typical is a progression, over time, from more subtle or emotional forms of abuse to more physical forms. And it's very common for people being abused not to recognize it until things have gotten more overt or escalated, well after the patterns of abuse or control have already started.
So, it's not just you, I promise.
With someone like this, what you want to do is figure out how you can get out of this with your safety being THE priority. Now isn't the time to worry about being nice, because being nice can just give someone like this another chance to hurt you and keep hurting you. And you're right: chances are he's not going to take responsibility for some or even any of this stuff, and he may well try and convince you it's your fault.
So, how about you and I work out a plan where you can get away and be done where you being safe comes first, and where you don't give him those opportunities? How does that sound?
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63244 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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(By the way, if you want to talk about reporting or pressing charges with the sexual assault, we can talk about that, too.)
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63244 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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I just can't believe it's dawning on me now. I feel like I've been asleep for the past 8 months, what on earth was I thinking?
Yeah, I want to keep myself safe. I don't really know what his reaction is going to be, I figure I could meet with him at his house so I could leave if necessary with my car there. Should I have a friend waiting in my car or something? Or I could call a friend within a time frame. Also, I want to talk to my parents (I'm living at home at the moment while I'm at university) but I really don't want to upset them.
Again, I keep thinking maybe he thought I'd like it, or that I was enjoying it while half asleep... I'd usually be asleep in his bed and he'd join me, I'd wake up afterwards and if I asked he'd say we had sex (and I could tell). I can't figure out if there was malicious intent, but I don't know if it even matters at this point.
And again, thank you so much. This has been such a help. I don't think I am going to press charges at this point.
Posts: 17 | Registered: Dec 2011
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Unhealthy and abusive dynamics tend to have the effect of really confusing people who are victimized. Unfortunately, it just is all too easy to get sucked into them and then develop a sort of tunnel vision that makes them tough to see.
I personally would not suggest meeting at his house or any private space. If you want to do this in person, instead I'd suggest a very public space, like a coffeeshop, tea house, busy public park, etc. I think letting a friend or family member know you're going to do that, or even having them right there with you, is a very good idea.
People who want their partners to enjoy sex tend to want them to be awake, since anyone with two brain cells together knows that if something happens when we're not awake, we don't tend to experience it at all. As well, partners who are invested in their partners enjoyment will tend to do things like ask about if they want to explore sex in situations like that, not just do it. I think we can be very certain his choosing to assault you had nothing to do with your enjoyment or his thoughts of your enjoyment.
And I'm happy to help, of course. And with reporting and pressing charges, those choices are absolutely yours to make and about what you feel is best for you.
I would suggest talking to supportive people in your life who you know care about you and love you. It's okay to upset people who care about us by asking for help when we need it.If they care about us, they'd be much more upset if we needed help and support and did NOT ask for it than if we did, you know?
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63244 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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I'll try to think of a good public space but I'm not coming up with any ideas. I'm afraid of making a scene I guess.
I don't know what to say to him, should I explain anything? Or just tell him I want out and to not contact me? Could I even call him...? I'd rather just tell him in person and get out of there.
Posts: 17 | Registered: Dec 2011
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Before we move this forward, let me just check in with you: do you WANT to do this in person? In other words, you're asking about places and ways to do this in person, but you don't have to, so I want to make sure that's even what you want.
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63244 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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I can do it in person, but either way it is going to be hard. If I have other options I can consider those too. I just hope I'm doing the right thing.
Posts: 17 | Registered: Dec 2011
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You absolutely have other options. You could send a letter or email, for instance, or you could do this by phone.
Or, if you want to do it in person, you could, again, have someone sitting right with you the whole time. And if things escalate, they can be the person who has agreed with you, in advance, to say "time to go now" and help you get out of there and be done with it.
Personally, I never know how it could not be the right thing for someone to get away from someone who is assaulting them. But if you want to talk about that, we certainly can.
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63244 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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I just keep remembering all of the kind things he did, and when we used to laugh and goof off. He could be so tender and affectionate, and it felt so genuine. Obviously if he didn't have those qualities I wouldn't be here in the first place, but since this has happened and I thought it over I feel like everything's been turned upside down. This sounds so stupid but I just can't imagine him doing what he did out of anything other than... pure horniness? I don't know. I'm still confused and it messes with my head to think someone I trusted used me that way. I keep imagining me dumping him and seeing him being hurt and confused... even though I'm hurt and confused.
I feel like it would be awkward for me to break up with him with a friend sitting there (for everyone involved) but it is a good idea. I want to do it face to face because I am tired of feeling like a doormat and I want to get some closure, even if it's difficult.
Posts: 17 | Registered: Dec 2011
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I obviously know very little about your relationship as a whole, but the way dynamics of abuse and control work, there are almost always "nice times" or "honeymoon periods" as part of the deal.
Here's the thing about your idea that he just was so horny and that's why he did what he did: we know that sexual assault is really not about sexual desire UNLESS someone also gets off on humiliating, controlling or otherwise harming someone, too. In other words, yes, for some people who assault, part of their sexuality may also involve getting off on harming others or dismissing their humanity.
People who just have a strong desire to be sexual with a sleeping partner when they intend to treat them with care, when they are healthy, safe people? They might wake them up -- and not with their penis, with their words -- and ask, or just hang on until morning. Sexual desire, even when strong, doesn't make people abuse other people unless part of that desire is to abuse.
It's also worth bearing in mind that even unhealthy people, people who harm people? That's not all of who they are. However, even if they have other parts of them that are lovely and kind, if you know they have hurt you, and it's clear they will keep doing it -- something you can know when it keeps happening, keeps escalating, and a person's response when you call them out on it is to laugh, of all things -- then you have to know that if you stick around, you are going to keep being harmed.
This is all really complex stuff, so I'm shortcutting, but I don't have to. We can keep talking in depth if you like, and I can also link you to some of our articles here on these issues that go into depth.
But I can tell you that someone who sexually assaults someone else does not do so because they are horny and somehow a slave to their sex drive. That's just not what assault is ever about, and we know that from decades of dedicated study on these crimes and dynamics.
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63244 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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It seems so straightfoward and simple, I just wish how I feel about all of this was as rational. I agree with you, I'm just fighting the parts of me that keep trying to justify or explain it all. It feels like it's a grey area even when it's not.
Anyway, I guess the more important thing is to end this while I can. I'm going to get in touch with one of my girlfriends and see if they can keep me company when I go to meet him. Apparently his phone is broken so I'm waiting for him to get in touch with me. If not today, then tomorrow.
Posts: 17 | Registered: Dec 2011
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Feelings? Not rational. That's kind of their deal.
But I know that these feelings are so rife with conflict and confusion, and they are never easy. They are really tough things to feel and work through. They also tend to take a lot more time than a day or two to work through: more like months and more commonly, years. And these are really hard truths to hold: it's a terrible, painful truth to recognize when someone we trusted was not someone we should have, and that our trust has been as betrayed as it gets.
I need to grab some lunch, but when I come back, if you like I can share some of those links with you, and we can talk about the conversation you want to have tomorrow or later today and how to best try to make that happen that way. But I would advise not seeing him alone, so I'd hold off until you can find someone to be with you, okay? We want to make sure you are safe.
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63244 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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Yeah, that sounds good. I might not be around for the next few hours (exam) but I'll be available when I get back. I'm just trying to think of what to say. I haven't heard from him at all which is unusual, maybe he'll end it first.
Posts: 17 | Registered: Dec 2011
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Why don't you just give a shout when you're back, and fill me in on what you'd like to say and what you feel you need to say to leave and feel as good about it as you can, okay?
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63244 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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Just FYI, I am heading out for the day shortly. One of our volunteers can certainly keep talking with you when you come back tonight (if you do), or we can pick up where you and I left off first things in the morning.
Hope you take care of yourself tonight, maybe do something nice for you while you're having such hard feelings.
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63244 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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He texted me all chipper about getting a new phone. Part of me wants to talk to him about it and make it work but I have no idea if it's something I should consider. He has no idea what he did made me feel this way. I don't even really remember, maybe I seemed more awake? I think he had laughed it off saying he was drunk because he thought I was okay with it... what if this is a mistake? Is there any room for an apology or change?
I was going to call him (I don't need to meet with him) and basically say something alone the lines of this:
"*****, we need to talk about something. I've been unhappy for a while with how things have been going. Before this weekend I was going to say that it feels like we've been growing apart and getting bored with each other, and that maybe we should see other people. I still feel that way, but I'm also freaked out about the other night. You yanked my clothes off and basically forced me into sex all while I was half asleep and could barely understand what was happening. I don't want to be treated like an object, and this wasn't the first time that it had happened. I don't even know how to feel right now but I can't excuse what you did and I can't believe you'd take advantage of me, without even asking or considering how I felt. Please leave me alone, I need to get over this."
I was feeling motivated but now I feel like I'm back at square one after seeing his text. I don't even know how to respond to it.
Posts: 17 | Registered: Dec 2011
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I'm so sorry to see that this went with a reply all night, and am really sorry about that. And unfortunately, this might be the only response I can give you myself today, as I need to do a lot of work with the business of sustaining our site and organization from the crappy administrative end.
But it sounds like that's maybe not the worst thing ever, because it sounds like you might feel best about taking some more time with this. And so long as you can do that safely -- and by that, I mean that, if nothing else, even if you share texts or phone calls, you are NOT alone with this person at all where they can do you any more bodily harm -- I don't see that as a problem.
I think that telling him some of the things you are going to that way right now maybe isn't the best idea, in part because what I read in that paragraph you wrote there is a lot of you watering down what he has done, giving him outs, and not yet feeling able to call what he did what he actually did. For instance, it's not "basically forcing you into sex" to have sex with you when you are drunk or asleep. That IS forcing you into sex: those are criminal sexual assaults. See what I mean?
That's not a dig at you: it often takes time to process all of this stuff, far more than a day or two. And it is a TOUGH process, one I don't think anyone should expect to be able to handle quickly or with ease. Know what I mean?
What I'd suggest is that for the next day or two a) you do not see this person alone, period. That is mostly about your safety, but also about giving yourself real space and time out of these dynamics. Ideally you also give yourself at least a day or two without communicating with him, unless you need to just go through the motions, like texting something trite back so you can have that space without him escalating emotionally right now and pulling you back into the control/manipulation dynamic. Then b) you read some things about healthy and unhealthy relationships, about consensual sex and about sexual abuse and assault to inform yourself and get some real context here that should help you separate denials and rationalizations from truths. THEN c) we check in again to see and talk about how you're feeling having had some real space -- from him, and from this conversation, just time in your own head and heart -- to think.
Does that work for you? If so, I'll leave you some links to chew on. If not, I will leave a note to the volunteers to keep an eye out for your thread so you can keep talking with someone if that's what you'd prefer. Again, I'm sorry to be unable to participate more today with you if that's what you want, but alas, when the you-know-what hits the fan around here from a keeping-us-afloat perspective, I have to do that since I'm the only person whose job that is.
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63244 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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I appreciate you helping me (and many other teens/college kids) while you're managing this site! Seriously.
My mother and I talked about it, and while at first she told me "well that's what happen when you drink" she realized that it was a violation on his part and has been understanding about everything.
I still haven't seen him or responded to any of his texts as I sort through this.
But I have really started to come to terms with everything and how disrespectful and not okay what he did was (not to mention you know, criminal). I'm trying to ignore any excuses for his behavior and focus on how bad and uncomfortable it made me feel. Also I'm trying to tell myself that it's not being overdramatic to be upset and hurt about it.
I'm just trying to come up with exactly what to say. I think tonight is going to be the night, I'm going to ask him to call me sometime this evening.
Posts: 17 | Registered: Dec 2011
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It's absolutely not being overdramatic to be upset and hurt when someone you thought cared about you assaults you! Also what your mother first said is very wrong, that is NOT usually what happens when you drink. Plenty of women drink without their partners assaulting them!
I'm wondering if it's still too soon for you to talk to him? You don't have to talk to him right away, you know, he can live without hearing from you for awhile. If you do want to prepare for it, hopefully we can help you out. What do you think you would need to say to him to feel ok about leaving? I mean, you don't really owe him an explanation if you don't want to give one, but if giving one would help you then that is ok too.
Also, do you want to press charges against him? We can help you out with that as well.
-------------------- ~Kat Scarleteen Volunteer
I never am really satisfied that I understand anything; because, understand it well as I may, my comprehension can only be an infinitesimal fraction of all I want to understand. - Ada Lovelace Posts: 819 | From: Seattle | Registered: Apr 2009
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I really want to end things tonight (for real), I finally am done with this hectic schoolweek - I barely had time to sleep let alone give him a call.
I am going to keep it short and tell him that I haven't been happy and this just put it over the edge. And that what he did was beyond okay and completely disrespectful, and that I am done.
What would be the best way for me to end it?
Posts: 17 | Registered: Dec 2011
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Really, whatever feels best for you and also has you safe is just fine. You certainly do not have to tell him all the things we have been talking about when you split up, and really, unless that's what you wanted, I'd advise not doing that, anyhow. All it's likely to do is either escalate, or result in you having to listen to him deny things or blame you: nothing likely to be productive OR good for you.
So, I think being short and brief like that is just fine, and really sound.
Do you have someone ready to be there with you, or at least within very easy reach? A public place picked out?
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63244 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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Yeah, I don't really want to talk it all out, it'll just make me upset. I guess the whole point is getting out of this, not to try and explain it all to him and have him think about it.
I just am wondering if I should at least tell him that it's not okay to do what he did this past weekend? I want to stand up for myself, but...it's not going to change what happened and he's probably going to think I'm crazy anyway.
I'm doing it over the phone and I am home, my parents are around and my friends are supporting me. I can call any of them if I need to
Just waiting for him to call me back, I sent him a text.
Posts: 17 | Registered: Dec 2011
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Well, in terms of how much you say, some of that choice will probably be made in the moment, based on how you feel at the time, you know? You don't have to decide exactly what to say ahead of time.
So, maybe start brief and see how you feel?
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63244 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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It was so hard, but I finally talked to him. I tried to keep it together, but I just broke down crying really hard in the middle of it. I told him how I felt and how what he did was wrong, and he understood but was completely taken aback. He sounded really hurt and upset and was crying too. He said he would give me space but told me he had no idea he had hurt me that way. I keep switching between feeling like I did something right and feeling like I did something wrong.
I keep trying to remember things he did that made me feel bad, but I keep imagining him joking and laughing with me and how much it felt like he cared. Even though what he did hurt me, I feel terrible for hurting him.
His friend just called me (I didn't recognize the number) to see what happened and he sounded so accusatory and disappointed :/ He has no idea, so I feel even worse, apparently my (now ex) is taking it really, really bad.
Posts: 17 | Registered: Dec 2011
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I'm sorry it was so hard for you and that your friend isn't being supportive.
I'd perhaps try and remember that it's okay for you ex to feel upset. Breakups are upsetting. As well, his actions -- the assaults, the insults, etc. -- have been his choices. They're his responsibility, and perhaps some of his upset was actually feeling that responsibility, even though he engaged in denial with you. That's not a bad thing. It's really important for all of us to feel the responsibility of our actions, especially around doing other people harm.
Too, if this is a controlling person, which has sounded very likely, when they lose a relationship, they also lose control over someone, something they really wanted. So, there's another upset in there for them.
It might be helpful to remember that you taking care of yourself is a very, very good thing. You getting away from escalating harm is a very good thing and critical to the most basic kind of self-care. If someone has to choose between being safe and keeping someone "happy" who is making them unsafe there really is only one sound choice, you know?
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63244 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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I guess I shouldn't have to tell someone "Please don't talk to me as though I'm an idiot" or "Please don't have sex with me when I'm asleep, or take advantage of me" in the first place. I wish I had stood up for myself sooner, but honestly I don't know if it would have changed anything. Part of me worries that I should have spoken up instead of just leaving like this, but it's too late now anyway...
Does it even make a difference if he didn't realize he was hurting me? Was he really making me that unsafe by taking advantage of me? I should probably get in touch with my old therapist so I can start working all of this out.
Posts: 17 | Registered: Dec 2011
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quote:I guess I shouldn't have to tell someone "Please don't talk to me as though I'm an idiot" or "Please don't have sex with me when I'm asleep, or take advantage of me" in the first place.
YES. Exactly. Especially someone you know and who you care for and trust, and who ostensibly cares for you.
The thing is, you did try to speak up, remember?
quote:I felt really violated and asked him about it, but he laughed it off and said he had still been drunk.
You did, and you saw how he reacted. I think expecting him to react any differently seems like an unrealistic expectation. I mean, I think you or I can figure how we, assuming we are earnestly caring people, would react if our lovers said they felt completely violated by us. We'd take that really seriously, right? We'd want to get to the bottom of that and do anything we could do to even try and remedy that, right? The idea of that as something to laugh at would just seem...well, alien, no?
I'm not sure what you mean by things making a difference if you didn't realize he was hurting you. Want to say a little more?
Was he really making you that unsafe by sexually assaulting you? Well, we know that most people tend to experience pretty serious psychological and sexual impact from being sexually assaulted. That can cause physical injury sometimes, too, and if and when safer sex or contraception isn't used, can also create unwanted pregnancy or illness outcomes.
How about we ask this, though: do you think you want to be in an intimate relationship with someone who not only sexually assaults you, but thinks it's funny...and only seems to react differently when *they* suddenly can't have something they want anymore?
(And for sure: if you have a therapist you like, a good counselor can be such a great support in healing from things like this, including sorting everything out and moving forward.)
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63244 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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I think I described his reaction that day wrong. After what it happened, about an hour later he was really sick in the bathroom from drinking the night before. I can't remember exactly what I said, but I'm pretty sure I didn't mention it in a way that indicated I felt uncomfortable. I'm trying to remember what I said, I think it was something about him having the energy for sex even though he was so hungover. I felt weird but I didn't really want to think about it, and when I brought it up to a friend it just hit me how awful and confused I felt.
What I mean is, if he didn't realize what he did was wrong, it doesn't make it right, but what if he didn't mean to hurt me at all? I mean I guess his goal wasn't to hurt me anyway, it was just a selfish thing to do regardless. Maybe I should have talked to him about it first instead of just dumping him a week later, I don't know...
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Let's talk about something that I think is pretty core to this.
I think that if we are going to have sex with partners, we are responsible for doing what we can to make sure that whatever we are doing with them is something they want, and is as good for them as it is for us, and is also about them and their pleasure as much as our own. To me, this is really ground zero when it comes to sex between people being appropriate and okay. It's the barest of basics.
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63244 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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Yes. That is what hurts me, that there was no questions, no consideration and no respect... my body was just his to use as he pleased.
Posts: 17 | Registered: Dec 2011
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And you're not unusual in feeling hurt by that: again, that approach to sex is sexual abuse, not healthy, consensual sex.
So, if we agree that what I said up there is the barest of basics, can we also agree that if and when someone knows another person doesn't even consider those basics -- whether they know by things that person has said, or have found out because, in sex, they have actively shown they aren't caring about those things -- isn't even at that ground zero, they're not a safe or sound person to become or stay intimate with?
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63244 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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Yeah, you're right. Sometimes I feel like I'm so right and get angry and nearly feel motivated by it, but then sometimes I start giving him excuses and justifications for it. Just denial I guess, and I hate making other people feel bad even though I know what he did was wrong. I am just trying to ignore my confusion and follow my gut for now. He wanted to have a discussion face to face at some point, after things had cooled down, but I don't know if I'll do that. Through text he's trying to accuse me of being irrational and illogical about this. I know he's probably having a hard time dealing with it too, but... he knows how I feel and what I said.
He apologized after I didn't respond and told me that he knows I must feel really awful and miserable, and that I keep "being the beautiful person he fell in love with."
Posts: 17 | Registered: Dec 2011
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It's a process, and you're still very early in it. It is okay to vascillate with these feelings and okay to go through this process and be wherever you are at with it.
Can you block his texts for now so you don't have to keep having him broadcast to you while you're going through this? Especially since it sounds like some of what he's doing may be manipulative (like not giving you space after you asked to split, but issuing compliments to you to evade that boundary-crossing)?
One last thing? I think the idea of "making him feel bad" is off. You didn't call him names or try to hurt him or blame him for anything he didn't do. You held him responsible for things he chose to do. What is making him feel bad, if he is, has a lot to do with HIS choices and his chosen actions. Those things are going to be the big feel-bads, and again, I think we can agree that if we choose to do harm to people, no one is served, including the people who have done harm, by evading responsibility.
You know in your guts some of the things he has done to you were wrong. To be a decent human being, he needs to know that, too. Maybe he'll actually get there, but if he does, calling it out like you did, and refusing to be harmed anymore, like you did, rather than denying or dismissing it, or allowing him to keep harming you will be big things that got him there.
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63244 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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