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» Scarleteen Boards: 2000 - 2014 (Archive) » SCARLETEEN CENTRAL » Gender Issues » TGness and suicidal feelings (Page 1)

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Author Topic: TGness and suicidal feelings
Djuna
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I am having a really hard time lately. I just feel ugly and unwanted. I don't know why I'm bothering with anything much and I today I don't know why I'm bothering with transition. I feel like I must be kidding myself and now I think that if I wanted to go back to being a man (and I don't feel that I want to) I wouldn't be able to go back.

I was reading tsroadmap to try to feel better but that site has started to get me down. Its tone is very bullying. It's saying that being transgender means never feeling better, even after "passing". Is that right? I read some Kate Bornstein but that can be difficult.

It is at the point where I am trying desperately to schedule something every day so that I don't stay in bed all day drinking. I tried to kill myself last week but I didn't manage it. I'm a little worried that I'll try again, but mostly I'm at a loss for an alternative. I don't really get what I have to live for. How many years of transition is it going to take before I qualify to have someone love me again? Even then am I going to feel like a person? I just really don't know.

I'm sorry. This all feels like a massive step back.

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moonlight bouncing off water
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Oh, patrickvienna, I'm sorry you're feeling so downright awful right now.

Do you have any in person support right now?

Please, if you think you are going to attempt suicide right now, call 999 or a suicide prevention line right away, DO NOT TAKE YOUR LIFE.

Please, everyone here on Scarleteen cares for you, we all want you to keep living.

I know that part of you wants to keep living because you posted the above. Reaching out and posting it is that part of you that will get you through it reaching out. Please, please don't kill yourself. Please.


Please, call 999.

--------------------
~moonlight

I am ME and that is the only label I need.

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Robin Lee
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Hi There,

Sounds like a really awful time.

Just so we can get a sense of what is going on with you: Was this precipitated by the transphobic encounter you had with airport security?

I also want to check in with you about trying to kill yourself. I don't know what you did last week, but if it's something that affects your health it's important for you to get checked out by a health care professional.

Do you have any trans-supportive orgs in your area where you can connect with people who are also going through, or have been through, transition?

Transition of any kind does involve steps backward sometimes. I don't tell you this to discourage you, but to let you know that this isn't a failure or personal flaw.

I am hoping that others will be able to offer you some trans-supportive resources.

And, as Moonlight said, if you are feeling suicidal and don't think you can keep yourself safe, give 999 or a hotline a call. What do you think of making a safety plan--i.e. who you're going to contact, what you're going to do, etc if you feel the draw to try to kill yourself again?

--------------------
Robin

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Redskies
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patrickvienna, I'm so very sorry to hear this. I'm sure, and I hope, that some other folk more useful to you will be along soon, but just for now I wanted to offer you a few words.

Firstly, if you feel like harming yourself again, please, please call these people first: Samaritans on 08457 90 90 90. I apologise for not giving you somewhere trans/genderqueer specific, but I don't know enough about anywhere to be sure of recommendng it, so I'd rather leave that to someone who knows better. The Samaritans are at least trained in crisis and suicide issues, and instructed to be non-judgemental and listening to all callers.

I'd suggest staying away from anywhere that doesn't seem very supportive to you: it doesn't sound like what you need right now. Again, I'm sure that people who know better than I will be able to suggest places that might be more healthy for you at the moment.

I am aware that as a cis person my viewpoint may be a bit restricted here, or not what you need to hear; but as a queer person, as far as I'm concerned, you "qualify" to be loved Right Now, regardless of your gender, regardless of how sure you are of your gender, regardless of where you're at with your gender presentation matching/not matching your identification, regardless of how comfortable or not you feel with any of that. You "qualify" to be loved Right Now. Just for a start, I've read you showing great care and sensitivity of users on this site. You've sounded to me like you'd be someone who would be very rewarding and very cool to know. I'm deeply sorry that you're experiencing so much pain at the moment.

And once more, just to be sure: Samaritans, 08457 90 90 90.

--------------------
The kyriarchy usually assumes that I am the kind of woman of whom it would approve. I have a peculiar kind of fun showing it just how much I am not.

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Violet1234
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Hi there. I don't think I've ever really had an interaction with you, patrickvienna, in any topic on Scarleteen, but I've read many posts where you've given wonderful advice. I am fifteen, and haven't really been aware of my sexuality or how sex works or anything of the sort for very long- I started "researching" around 14 or so and one the first places I found was Scarleteen, and I am so grateful I did.

One of the first people who I read advice from was you. I don't remember what the topic was or what the problem of the person you were giving advice on was, but I do remember feeling like "this person sounds so intelligent and understanding and knowledgeable, I want to be like them someday!"

I put you right up there with Heather for giving helpful and informative advice, and you yourself have been an inspiration to me.

Of course you deserve love. You deserve happiness and comfort and a full and rich life, you deserve fulfillment and deserve to feel like your body matches how you feel inside.

And it sounds like you are receiving hardly any of that right now. And that is so #$%@&* unfair.

Hang in there. Life will get better. I know I'm younger than you, but sometimes faith transcends age and right now I have faith that anybody who can express them self as eloquently as you do will find happiness and joy. And I think that 20 years from now you will meet a person who is going exactly through what you are now, and you will be able to look them in the eyes as truthfully say, "It got better for me."

I also think that right now you should go and watch It Gets Better videos and try to instill in yourself that same message of hope. I know I really only know of you as opposed to actually knowing you, but I just want to say that I care what happens to you.

[ 03-07-2012, 12:28 AM: Message edited by: Violet1234 ]

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Djuna
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Thank you all so much for your messages. It really means a lot and I didn't realise how many people remember me. [Smile] I've had a pretty good day today, although I still haven't had great self-image.

moonlight: I don't really have a whole lot of in-person support, I'm seeing my counsellor on Friday, and I do have one friend here who I had a teary talk with at the weekend. I didn't talk about having tried to kill myself, but that was still good to talk and I think she's been looking out for me this week.

Robin: Actually, the airline security thing was maybe twelve hours *after* I had tried this. (Go team, seriously). I don't have any injuries, though, so that's okay.

I'm not sure about trans-supportive orgs near me, I should maybe try to find some of those. A plan of action sounds good too, I've been thinking abou that today. I'll try to put something together.

Redskies, I've called the Samaritans before and they've been good, although I feel stigmatized when I have to call them. I'll reconsider calling them, though, for sure.

Violet, thank you so much. Your message really made me smile [Big Grin]

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Violet1234
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I'm so glad it did! That's what I was aiming for [Smile] . It's wonderful that you're feeling better.

And also, did you have time or want to watch the It Gets Better videos I mentioned? Whenever I feel sad or lonely or just like I don't belong I always feel more connected and hopeful after going through them. They give me a sense of peace, and remind me of the good parts of life.

[ 03-07-2012, 09:00 PM: Message edited by: Violet1234 ]

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bump on a log
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You're not unwanted. I want you around. I have read a lot of your posts and I think you sound like an all-round great person. I always enjoy reading you. Sincerely, I mean it. I've never seen your physical exterior so I can't speak about that, but you come across as very far indeed from being ugly internally.

quote:
Originally posted by patrickvienna:
I was reading tsroadmap to try to feel better but that site has started to get me down. Its tone is very bullying. It's saying that being transgender means never feeling better, even after "passing". Is that right?

It depends, is all I can safely say about that. Human experience is massively varied. As a trans person myself I would very much doubt that that statement is right in anything like all cases.

quote:
Originally posted by patrickvienna:
now I think that if I wanted to go back to being a man (and I don't feel that I want to) I wouldn't be able to go back.

There may be specific reasons why you're thinking this that I don't know about, but there are people who have de-transitioned, or transitioned back, or whatever you want to call it, perfectly successfully.

quote:
Originally posted by patrickvienna:
How many years of transition is it going to take before I qualify to have someone love me again?

I don't think there is any such thing as qualifying to have someone love you. Love doesn't work like that. Some awful people are greatly beloved and some really nice people aren't.

quote:
Originally posted by patrickvienna:
Even then am I going to feel like a person?

A person? You are a person anyway, like it or not. Being trans makes you a bit of an unusual person, but not a wildly unusual person. As the guy who wrote the Accepting Dad blog put it, "This is one of the ways people are." All over the world, throughout millennia.

quote:
Originally posted by patrickvienna:
I don't really get what I have to live for.

Sunlight? Ice cream? Friends? Hills? Movies? Pop songs? Romance novels? Books on abnormal psychology? Dozing in bed of a morning? Whatever you enjoy... just throwing some things out there.

Look, there is always time enough to die; killing yourself is something you can always get round to later. But if you kill yourself, there's no more time to live, no chance at the happiness you might have had otherwise.

Try not to feel stigmatized when you have to call the Samaritans. They have probably heard it all before and if they were given to stigmatizing people who are suffering, they'd likely not be doing that job.

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eryn_smiles
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quote:
Originally posted by bump on a log:

Try not to feel stigmatized when you have to call the Samaritans. They have probably heard it all before and if they were given to stigmatizing people who are suffering, they'd likely not be doing that job.

I agree! Helplines are there to help you [Smile] . I have called them plenty of times myself when I am down and I feel it can be a really good support. I'd like to echo the words of others in sending you support and strength. Do hang in there and take care of yourself.

--------------------
"Caring for myself is not self-indulgence, it is self-preservation and that is an act of political warfare."

Audre Lorde

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bump on a log
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Hey, I wanted to say something else I've been thinking about lately.

I was reading back on Metafilter and I came across comments from 2003 in which, for instance, a transgender boy was referred to as a girl with a sexual identity crisis, and gee, isn't that sad that she feels that way, etc.

Read Metafilter these days and everyone expresses support for trans people. Sure, most of those people aren't expressing genuine acceptance but rather following the PC party line -- but still. In under ten years, it has become frowned upon on that website to do anything other than accommodate transness.

A major, major change in less than ten years. I was pretty gobsmacked.

So stick around, give it another nine years. We may be pleasantly surprised.

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Jill2000Plus
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Sorry I can't think of anything more in depth to say, but please don't kill yourself, don't lose hope, you seem like a really great person and I think that if you stick around, things will get better, and they'll get better in part because of you, and the valuable work you're doing by being a volunteer here. And no matter what anybody has done or not done, they don't owe the world or other people their life. You matter, and you have a life ahead of you to find happiness.

--------------------
Always knock before entering my room when I am in there alone, as I may be doing all sorts of wonderfully thrilling things that I'd rather you didn't see.

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moonlight bouncing off water
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Hey patrickvienna, I just wanted to check in with you and see how you're doing with all of this. And like others have said, I want you around, so please hang in there. You seem like an incredibly strong individual and I know that you can perservere. My best wishes to you.

--------------------
~moonlight

I am ME and that is the only label I need.

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WesLuck
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Mine too. You are a fantastic person, and we definitely don't want you to be a full stop! You're great just as you are. [Smile]
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Sans
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Hey, patrickvienna. [Smile]

Just wanted to drop by to give you a virtual hug. -hug-

You deserve to feel good about yourself because you're a great individual. Your contributions to Scarleteen alone has helped so many, including me. Things do sound very diffcult for you right now, but please, never give up on yourself. [Smile]

Thinking about you.

--------------------
"Sneak away, sneak away / If the fate is too sad / You are not a flower of hell / That kind of place... / Don't become lost, don't become lost... / Or you won't be able to grasp the entangled hand / The cry also has a limit...." - Naraku no Hana

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Djuna
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Thank you everyone. I've been checking your messages every day but I haven't really been feeling too able to post.

I think that maybe things have been better, although today has been another bad day. I seem to be pushing away everybody who I love for some reason. I really want to go home - this weekend was Mother's Day - but I'm not out to my parents and I don't want to dress male for them.

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moonlight bouncing off water
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I'm glad to hear that you feel like things a perhaps getting a bit better. I've found with myself that when it starts to feel like maybe things are getting better, but only a teensy weensy bit, that does tend to indicate an upward trend of my positive emotions. So in less words: I hope that means that you're starting to feel better. (I don't mean to say that things will all of a sudden be perfect, only that I hope things start to get better for you, even if only a bit).

Sometimes what you need is to push people away. That might not be the case now, but either way don't beat yourself up over it. Is there anyone at all where you are that you ARE out to, that you would feel comfortable talking too, or even arranging to go out to coffee with. You don't have to talk to them about any of this if you don't want to, but if you've been kicking around the house a lot lately (which I'd totally understand), it might help to get out of the house. Of course you may not be in a place at all that you feel like going out of the house is something you want, that's okay too.

As per your parents, I don't know your history at all, so I'm not really able understand as well as I might, but I totally get how not being out to them and not wanting to dress male, but really wanting to see them, well, sucks, quite frankly. If you don't mind me asking, how is your relationship with your parents and what is their stance on TGness in general? (Totally cool if you don't want to answer or delve into that).


(This is pretty unrelated to everything else on this thread, but the following helps me get through the day. Something that may, or may not help you, but that I know helps me a bit, is to remind yourself, that the past can't be changed. It can be really liberating to think of it in that way. The past cannot be changed, but the future is your oyster, the future is yours to control via the present. And yeah, the past is sure as hell going to have an impact, often a really big one, on your present, but all you can do about it choose how you respond to it. Oh, and I'm not afraid to ask stupid questions. I know that none of that is related to what's going on in the rest of this thread, or even this post, but it helps me, so I thought I'd send it off with the rest of this, just in case my random ramble helps. Or amuses or entertains or distracts or whatever).


Now that I know you've been checking the posts regularily, I won't necessarily wait for a reply to post something on this thread. I won't make a post if I have nothing to say of course...

What have you been doing lately in terms of taking care of yourself? Are there anythings that you like to do that you know help you to feel better (favourite movie, book, song, doing art work, going for a walk, etc) that you have been, or could start doing?

I know I'm throwing a lot of stuff out there and going in a couple of directions, but I don't really know what you're looking for or what would help the most so I tried to cover a few of the things I thought might be the best starting places.

And I don't know if I've said this yet, but think you're super awesome. I don't really know when I formed that opinion of you, but I know that all of your posts I have read (esp. when first joining Scarleteen) you emulated (I think that's the right word, I mean like modeled/emanated from you) a super awesome vibe I guess you could call it.

--------------------
~moonlight

I am ME and that is the only label I need.

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WesLuck
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I think you've got a super awesome vibe too. [Smile]
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Sans
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quote:
Originally posted by WesLuck:
I think you've got a super awesome vibe too. [Smile]

Thirded! [Big Grin]

--------------------
"Sneak away, sneak away / If the fate is too sad / You are not a flower of hell / That kind of place... / Don't become lost, don't become lost... / Or you won't be able to grasp the entangled hand / The cry also has a limit...." - Naraku no Hana

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WesLuck
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This is just an idea, maybe you could change your Scarleteen moniker to something like patriciavienna? It might be a bit off-putting to see a male name for your Scarleteen moniker each time you login to Scarleteen if you consider yourself female. Anyway, it is just an idea and you can do with it what you want. [Smile]
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eryn_smiles
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Glad to hear you're doing ok, patrickvienna. Hope you're able to be more open with your parents as you feel more comfortable and that they're very supportive. Am thinking good thoughts for you [Smile]

--------------------
"Caring for myself is not self-indulgence, it is self-preservation and that is an act of political warfare."

Audre Lorde

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Djuna
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Thank you, everybody who wrote here. You're all so kind and it really means a lot. [Smile]

Today was a bad day. I've been very depressed and I haven't been going outside really except for university in a little while, and now I have spring break for two weeks. I've been living off of takeaway pizza for the last three days until today I had finally run out of breakfast foods, fruit, anything, and I went to the store (which was nice). I was supposed to go to the library in central London today though, and I didn't because I wasn't happy with how I looked and I spent maybe three hours "getting ready," not happy. I'm going to try again tomorrow.

Also I came out to my uncle on Friday, who was really cool and accepting - I had thought he would be a safe first family person for me to come out to - and he offered to come down to visit me (he lives 200 miles away, that's a big deal) and also to see if he couldn't help me with coming out to my parents. So that went well, although afterwards I've been feeling upset, like I'm ridiculous in some way. I could tell he was not sure what to say, although I know that's probably just that he's thoughtful generally. I feel like, I don't know, like by transitioning I'm setting myself up to feel more and more upset all the time and that I should know better.

My counselling hours ran out and I don't think I'm going to be able to access any more until June, or get hold of a new counsellor until I move to Toronto in September. (I got into grad school, hell yeah!)

Moonlight, I'm out to all of my friends because I dress femme every day, but I only really have one good friend in London and we're both pretty busy, and I can't depend on her I guess, because I texted her today when I needed some support and I didn't get a reply. I do talk to her when I can though. Most of my good friends are in Oregon so I'm trying to start Skypeing with them again.

My relationship with my parents is god-awful, especially with my mother. Both she and my father make transphobic jokes from time to time but I suppose that is normal in this culture.

I'm really trying to stay on top of my self care but it's difficult, and my dissertations are due at the end of the month so I feel guilty whenever I realise that what I need is to be doing self care instead of working.

So I don't know what to do, I guess I have to wake up feeling good about myself tomorrow. I can't remember the last time someone told me they like how I look and it's getting exhausting trying to say that for myself.

--------------------
“In a strange room, before you are emptied for sleep, what are you. And when you are filled with sleep you never were. I don’t know what I am. I don’t know if I am or not... how often have I lain beneath rain on a strange roof, thinking of home.”

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moonlight bouncing off water
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Well I'm glad you came out to your uncle and that he has been accepting, it's awesome that you now how someone in your family who knows, go you! And congrats on getting into grad school, that's awesome! I'm not really sure what to say to try and feel better, but know that we're all here for you.

--------------------
~moonlight

I am ME and that is the only label I need.

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Djuna
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Thank you [Smile] I think having a few days of yummy food has been helping, and I did go to the library on Tuesday. I'm going again today (for those who don't know me/London, the British Library is definitely my idea of an awesome day out and the literary equivalent of being able to travel the whole world while always eating smorgasbords and having full sexual/bodily autonomy and agency. They have EVERY book. Like, no kidding, all of them. [Smile]

[ 04-05-2012, 04:52 AM: Message edited by: Ms. [patrickvienna] ]

--------------------
“In a strange room, before you are emptied for sleep, what are you. And when you are filled with sleep you never were. I don’t know what I am. I don’t know if I am or not... how often have I lain beneath rain on a strange roof, thinking of home.”

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moonlight bouncing off water
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That's awesome! And it totally makes me regret not going to the library when I visited London, I must return some day!

And I love how you're playing around with your Scarleteen moniker. (Oh, and thank you for keeping the name that we all know you by in brackets, it makes it so that's not confusing).

And yay for yummy food!

I hope you're doing better, and I hope you keep doing things that make you feel good!

EDIT: oh, and how you said that it bugs you that no one has said how they like what you're wearing for quite some time, well since I have no idea how you look I can't really comment on that, but I can tell you that you are so incredibly beautiful on the inside.

[ 04-05-2012, 04:12 PM: Message edited by: moonlight bouncing off water ]

--------------------
~moonlight

I am ME and that is the only label I need.

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Djuna
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Thank you! Djuna is the name I'm using IRL now. But yep, I'm going to keep the old one in brackets for a while.

EDIT: n'awww, thank you so much. Right back at you, hon. [Smile]

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“In a strange room, before you are emptied for sleep, what are you. And when you are filled with sleep you never were. I don’t know what I am. I don’t know if I am or not... how often have I lain beneath rain on a strange roof, thinking of home.”

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moonlight bouncing off water
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Aww, thanks. And Djuna is a really pretty name [Smile] .

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~moonlight

I am ME and that is the only label I need.

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Sans
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quote:
Originally posted by moonlight bouncing off water:
Djuna is a really pretty name [Smile] .

Seconded! [Smile]

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"Sneak away, sneak away / If the fate is too sad / You are not a flower of hell / That kind of place... / Don't become lost, don't become lost... / Or you won't be able to grasp the entangled hand / The cry also has a limit...." - Naraku no Hana

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Jill2000Plus
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quote:
Originally posted by Robin Vote [patrickvienna]:
Thank you [Smile] I think having a few days of yummy food has been helping, and I did go to the library on Tuesday. I'm going again today (for those who don't know me/London, the British Library is definitely my idea of an awesome day out and the literary equivalent of being able to travel the whole world while always eating smorgasbords and having full sexual/bodily autonomy and agency. They have EVERY book. Like, no kidding, all of them. [Smile]

<small>[ 04-05-2012, 04:52 AM: Message edited by: Ms. [patrickvienna] ]</small>

*Hopeful, wide-eyed look* even manga? Lots and lots of manga?

Also, glad to hear you're doing better [Smile]

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Always knock before entering my room when I am in there alone, as I may be doing all sorts of wonderfully thrilling things that I'd rather you didn't see.

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Djuna
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Well, according to their website, they do have a manga collection, and knowing them it's pretty darned large, but I have no idea what to search for to test how extensive it is. [Smile]

I've had a tricky couple days and I haven't gone outside, but I think I'm doing better.

[ 04-07-2012, 08:38 PM: Message edited by: Djuna [patrickvienna] ]

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“In a strange room, before you are emptied for sleep, what are you. And when you are filled with sleep you never were. I don’t know what I am. I don’t know if I am or not... how often have I lain beneath rain on a strange roof, thinking of home.”

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eryn_smiles
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Hello [Smile] I hope you're hanging in there and doing better today. Glad you had a good time out at the library.

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"Caring for myself is not self-indulgence, it is self-preservation and that is an act of political warfare."

Audre Lorde

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Djuna
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Thank you [Smile] I'm hoping tomorrow I will go outside again but it will be the first time since Thursday.

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“In a strange room, before you are emptied for sleep, what are you. And when you are filled with sleep you never were. I don’t know what I am. I don’t know if I am or not... how often have I lain beneath rain on a strange roof, thinking of home.”

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Heather
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Love seeing you using your new chosen name here. I really wish there was some kind of UBB code that tossed confetti or something to celebrate the big-small victories like these. [Smile]

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
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Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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WesLuck
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Yes, using a name of your choosing can be a big-small step. Congrats, Djuna! [Smile]
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Djuna
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Thank you [Smile] I have started to get some more of my friends to call me Djuna but I've only seen it written down online so far, I haven't heard it.

I did get dressed and go outside today, I went to the store - it was closed for the public holiday, so I walked to the store the next neighborhood over, about two hours of walking in the end and it was raining. I often get funny looks in the street when I go outside, I live in a pretty sheltered area and a lot of (for example) older men give me disgusted looks. I feel so angry that they would project their discomfort to me like that. For today I managed to reel it in to just waiting to get past them and then, in my head, tearing into them. I was feeling pretty bad today anyway and this didn't help, and I felt like I was getting to the point where I was going to scream at someone in the street, which I know is not constructive. I think I need a new psych.

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“In a strange room, before you are emptied for sleep, what are you. And when you are filled with sleep you never were. I don’t know what I am. I don’t know if I am or not... how often have I lain beneath rain on a strange roof, thinking of home.”

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moonlight bouncing off water
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Hey Djuna

Well, of course it would be great to hear it out loud from someone else, but have you at least said it outloud for yourself? Sometimes saying things to one's self can make them so, so much more real.

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~moonlight

I am ME and that is the only label I need.

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