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Author Topic: OK for him, but not her?
Only In Dreams
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This seems to be another double standard around here: it's OK for a boy to masturbate or look at pornography, because "all boys do it". However, if a girl masturbates or looks at porn, she's "disgusting". I'm not sure where exactly this came from. My opinion is, as long as you aren't making someone uncomfortable, it's OK. (in Jr. High some people thought it was cool to "jack off in science class" ) Anyone hear anything similar?

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*~Bobo~*
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yah i would definitly agree with u there. i hate how its like that but acually i dont think its as bad as it always seems. i think a lot of ppl now realize that masturbabtion, porn, etc. is normal for both sexes and i also think that there is nuthin wrong with a girl doing any of that.
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Dzuunmod
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Another way of looking at this, however, is that guys who look at porn (maybe not teen guys, but a bit later in life) are the ones who're seen as gross and sleazy, while women who do it are viewed as hip, trendy and sexually open.

I think there are two sides to this story.

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Confused boy
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I dont think there are any sides to this story from my point of view. I dont see much difference at all in the different viewpoints on genders in this case. I think for both it is by certain people disgusting or fine or somewhere in the middle. From my experience, it seems that younger teenages are more likely to be digusted by it and the older people get the more open they are about it. Certainly no gender imbalance from my view or many that I know.

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Only In Dreams
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quote:
Originally posted by Dzuunmod:
Another way of looking at this, however, is that guys who look at porn (maybe not teen guys, but a bit later in life) are the ones who're seen as gross and sleazy, while women who do it are viewed as hip, trendy and sexually open.

I think there are two sides to this story.


That's very true.

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kythryne
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Interesting discussion!

In my experience, most people seem to think that porn is for men, and erotica is for women. That, of course, brings up the old "what's the difference between porn and erotica?" debate.

Personally, I'm a woman, and I own both erotica anthologies and porn magazines. I guess I'm with Only in Dreams here: I think that it's okay for anybody to read or look at anything they want, as long as they don't make anyone else uncomfortable.

Kyth


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Miss Thang
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I think that more and more people are starting to realize that women are having sex not just to make their boyfriends happy, but to make themselves happy! But there's still a long way to go. There's still far too much stigma surrounding sex. I have never talked to my parents about sex because they refuse. They are hard-core Catholics, and sex-before-marriage is a big no-no. Little do they know....
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-Jill
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I think Confused Boy is on to something with that age thing. I've noticed that my younger friends (my age - 17 - and under) are a little more surprised and wary when someone mentions porn; in fact it usually becomes the subject of conversation regardless of what we were talking to before. However my older friends can simply mention it and move on without steering the conversation in that direction.

As far as gender goes, from what I've seen it's us girls ourselves that have a problem talking about porn and masturbation. However, once the conversation is started and we realize that it's really okay our reservations do seem to disappear.

In any case we can't let other people expectations of us control us. Just because I'm a young girl doesn't mean I don't masturbate or enjoy porn. On the other hand, just because someone is an older man doesn't mean they like either.

**Warning!: Generalizations were used in this post that may not reflect all people. If you feel offended I recommend that you go draw a butterfly - no generalizations were made about people that draw butterflies.


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BJadeT
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"As far as gender goes, from what I've seen it's us girls ourselves that have a problem talking about porn and masturbation."

Generalization or no generalization, I'd have to agree with you there. I spent 5 years in an all girls school, and masturbation was completely taboo. I never once heard one of my friends talk about about it, except as something really gross and icky that boys do.
What made this really sad was that the girls who would freak out if masturbation was mentioned were the same ones who would openly discuss their other sexual experiences (which were often very unsafe). It just seemed like a very silly double standard, almost as if sex with anyone is preferable to masturbation, no matter the risks or the emotional problems.
But when I left there and started mixing mainly with boys, it was completely different. No one seems to mind mentioning it and they laugh and joke about it in the same way my female friends did about sex. But still, they refuse to believe girls do it. I have tried to convince them that most girls do but they aren't having any of it!
So, yes, I definitely do think there are often double standards, and I will be doing my best to convince girls that IT'S OK

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Pumpkin_Pie
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There are double standards for girls and boys on every issue. And we could be arguing of rdays on each one. I masturbate, I don't feel uncomfortable with it and I'm very open about it, even more so thatn any of my male friends. I think that everyone should stop worrying so much about what people do to themselves, in the privacy of their own homes and what does no harm to anyone because there are a lot more important things in the world to be worrying about thatn that. And I think I've just gone totallly off teh point I was trying to make. Oh well
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BruinDan
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quote:
Originally posted by BJadeT:
[BWhat made this really sad was that the girls who would freak out if masturbation was mentioned were the same ones who would openly discuss their other sexual experiences (which were often very unsafe).[/B]

You know Beth, that was a terrific point you made...something that I have seen before but have never been able to put into words. You're exactly right about that...it seems that a lot of people who are so quick to condemn a perfectly safe act like masturbation, are the very same folks who won't hesitate to go into gory detail about the very decidedly unsafe things that they have done with their significant other.

The fact remains that sexual activity needs to be taken seriously, at least where one's health is concerned. Since masturbation is generally quite safe (unless one is using some sort of improper tool or putting oneself at risk by partaking of it in an improper location), it would probably be far more appropriate to discuss something like that than to launch into a diatribe about how one just had unprotected intercourse.

Just another double standard there, as BJadeT pointed out. There seem to be so many with regards to sex, it is just incredible.

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Buttercup
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There are indeed many double standards here, all of which started many many years ago. Women have always had the "stay at home and take care of the kids" image, while the men went out with their buddies doing god knows what, spreading their sperm. That probably led to a very a-sexual image for the women, while the men fooled around. And the result? All those double standards today. A woman isn't supposed to masturbate because that might mean that she (heaven forbids!) enjoys sex while she's supposed to be waiting home for her man. Or another annoying double standard - women who sleep around are whores, men who sleep around are studs. These perceptions are branded deep into society, and it'll probably take quite some time to change that thinking pattern.

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mantra
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In my opinion masturbation should be the front line in sex education, I agree there is a double standard that it's normal for guy and taboo for girls. One thing I've noticed is guys think masturbation is normal for both sexes, where girls think it's expected from guys and it's gross for girls. Maybe it's because girls can have sex with whomever and whenever, the availability of sex to women is far far greater to that of men, and a women masturbating is viewed as desperate. Just for the record I think everyone should masturbate, I think schools should teach students of appropriate age to masturbation even if the only benefit is removing some of the ergency and emphises of sexual intercourse, not to mention safety.
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alaska
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Mantra, while I agree with you on the fact that masturbation should be included in sex ed and that people of all genders should be taught a positive attitute towards it, I fail to see how and why "girls can have sex with whomever and whenever, the availability of sex to women is far far greater to that of men".
Really, I think that statement of yours really is a pretty big generalisation. Some of our female posters seem to still feel or be told that a sexually (very) active active female is someone everyone looks down on, and do not feel like they can be free to be sexually active whenever they want to.

In addition, I personally do not think that there is a "right age" to start masturbating that schools could teach. Many people start masturbating, or rather exploring their bodies in early childhood, and you know, I really think it's perfectly fine that way, and we should encourage everyone, no matter what their age is, that having fun with your own body is good, safe and wonderful.

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Only In Dreams
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quote:
Originally posted by BJadeT:
I spent 5 years in an all girls school, and masturbation was completely taboo. I never once heard one of my friends talk about about it, except as something really gross and icky that boys do.

I've heard all that, too. For instance, a couple times while talking with my friends or playing "Truth or Dare" (actually, it was more like "Truth or Truth", because there aren't many dares you can do with parents home or on school grounds! ), most of the boys talked openly about masturbation, while most of the girls denied ever doing it and dismissed it quickly. Maybe that is a generalization, but that seems to be true.

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"You're scary sometimes! Brilliant, but scary!"
-Ron to Hermione, Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone

Do not question the Mistress of Legend!


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lgray
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I think it's getting more and more acceptable for girls to say that they do indeed masturbate... all my friends and I have vibrators!
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morphobutterfly
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"girls can have sex with whomever and whenever, the availability of sex to women is far far greater to that of men"

alaska, I understand your reaction to this & why you would assume it's a v.broad generalisaton, but I would have to agree. I'm a student of Women's Studies, & in any discussion of the whole Legend/Slut double standard concerning guys/girls & their sexual experience, every guy in the class (& my male friends) all made this point, something none of us girls had ever considered.
They basically said that if a guy went out to a club/bar/wherever on a night out, specifically looking to find someone to have sex with, there were never any guarantees, because basically they found that alot - not all, but most - girls require the guy to "put a bit of work into it", whether that be taking their number & calling, taking hem out on a date or whatever else it takes for the girl to feel safe & comfortable enough with the guy to have sex with them. Let's face it, if a guy walks up to a girl & says "Hey baby, your place or mine?", most girls would assume he was a complete slimeball & move to the other side of the bar.
On the other hand, if a girl walks into a bar & says "Hey baby, your place or mine?", you KNOW there's gonna be some guy who thinks he's hit the jackpot.
Sad but unfortunatly very true! *rolls eyes* [Smile]

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EliotDorian
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"girls can have sex with whomever and whenever, the availability of sex to women is far far greater to that of men, and a women masturbating is viewed as desperate."
Ya know, that's not true. I've flirted with guys and have been shot down. And I could have brushed it off, as everyone gets rejected, but instead, I've had to deal with people repeating sentiments like this, which only makes me think, "Oh, OK well I'm a woman and I've had guys reject me even though if it's taking place at a frat party or at a bar, I mean, I'm not out there to meet my future husband for goodness' sake! So they're rejecting having sex with me. And women never get turned down for sex. So obvs. I'm a fugly un-woman." You see where the problem lies?

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DreamCatches
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quote:
Originally posted by *~Bobo~*:
yah i would definitly agree with u there. i hate how its like that but acually i dont think its as bad as it always seems. i think a lot of ppl now realize that masturbabtion, porn, etc. is normal for both sexes and i also think that there is nuthin wrong with a girl doing any of that.

I def agree that it's not as bad or as much of a double standard as it seems. When I was younger (middle school, early high school) masturbation was still something girls "didn't do" or weren't suppose to talk about, but now that I'm 20, women around me are a lot more open to discuss things like this. I don't think it's just because me an my peers are more comfortable to talk about it now that we are older and have no high school clique judging us, but more the fact that society has gotten a bit more open to talk about female masturbation. Our generation is def changing ideas about sex in my opinion.

I do have a male friend that I recently enlightened about female masturbation. He had never really thought that girls "in real life" did it as commonly as they do. He thought it was just something women did in porn or only a few women did. He really is just "sheltered" and not a typically sexist guy. He's actually a really sweet guy. But there are still people out there who have been conditioned to believe that women who masturbate are disgusting or sluts or pornstars, or "too ugly to get sex." But thankfully now my friend views it as something that many people do and that it doesn't make you disgusting. Convincing my girl friends that not all guys masturbate is much harder to do though. I guess the way to change these stereotypes is just trying to talk to people.

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Daki
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Honestly, I am an avid watcher of porn myself even before I became transgendered. Girls probably arent as "interested" or rather they think differently about sex than men. I remember one of my friends (a guy) saying, "Even girls are watching porn now. What has the world come to? I bet you at least one girl in here watches porn." I raised my hand and told him I watched porn. He looked surprised but dismissed the subject. Then again, maybe not all boys watch porn either. And the whole thing with jacking off in class...that is something to make people uncomfortable. From the stories I hear...math class seems popular.

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Daki
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Some of the guys in my school have accepted that boys can be equally sluts/whores and sometimes adress that. About the whole slut and whore thing, and woman can still dress fairly feminine and hang out with all guys and another girlfriend. However, to guys and girls that don't understand that, they go off and assume the girl is a slut. Now this is something I don't understand. When a guy is being surrounded by girls, he's considered a player, which doesn't make anymore sense. I have met two players: a girl and a boy and I am telling you now, they get together with someone and break up with them a week later to only have another partner two days later. This does not nesscecarily mean that someone is a player either, they could just be dating someone else to experiment with the type of people they prefer or trying to find an exclusive, but these people conned people out of their dates, and one made a frightfully sexual comment to all the girls. You have to look at all the factors before you assume something about a person. If a girl wears really feminine clothing and hangs out with five guys at her hip and is kind of flirty, that may just be apart of her personality, just as a guy being friendly to all the girls and being charming.

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Lady
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Wow this is something I would hear about in the past.

In my experience, when people find out that a girl does those things, I have always seen positive feedback. Guys seem to be turned on by that, and usually the other girls aren't really bothered by it anymore, or family or friends. I mean it's not exactly a conversation starter, but when it happens to come up I've never really seen anyone be affected by it apart from being sexually aroused (if that).
The only times I've seen people react to it weirdly is if little girls and boys are talking about it, but little girls and boys think everything is ew anyway. Or when you get the odd posh family who just aren't that open about anything in general let alone sex. I mean there are exceptions but in the 21st century I've seen big improvements with this subject.

I do both of those things and no one has ever set me apart for it because I am a girl.

This is just from my experience though.

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Somewhere there's someone who dreams of your smile, and finds in your presence that life is worthwhile, so whenever you're lonely remember this is true, somebody somewhere, is thinking of you :)

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Lady
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Christ, I didn't realise OP posted this in 2001. My answer doesn't really apply now because things have changed a lot since then lol.

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Somewhere there's someone who dreams of your smile, and finds in your presence that life is worthwhile, so whenever you're lonely remember this is true, somebody somewhere, is thinking of you :)

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blush
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quote:
Originally posted by Confused boy:
I dont think there are any sides to this story from my point of view. I dont see much difference at all in the different viewpoints on genders in this case. I think for both it is by certain people disgusting or fine or somewhere in the middle. From my experience, it seems that younger teenages are more likely to be digusted by it and the older people get the more open they are about it. Certainly no gender imbalance from my view or many that I know.

I need to know where you have seen this. No really because where ever I go its the exact opposite and older people are all like "ew porn HE IS POSSESSED!!" if they learn about anyone watching porn instead of keeping it on the down low. I'm not making fun of you btw.
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