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Author Topic: Bisexuality in music and bicuriosity in more
LizC
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So, lately I've been bopping out to Katy Perry's I Kissed A Girl, simply because I've been desperately craving pop music that even touches on(in a positive light) bisexuality. Even though this particular song isn't a shining example, I really like it, and I wish there were more things that unabashedly celebrated bisexuality, or even as a form of bicuriosity. Are there any that you've seen? I listen to a very wide variety of music(indie and classic rock and modern pop and more), and I've only ever found...well, one that I can clearly recall(I Kissed A Girl) that even touched on it in a fun, non-attacking way.

Also, I'm hesitant to use the term bicurious, because it's always seemed like society uses it as a way to delegitimize bisexuality by calling it mere curiosity or suggesting that it's passing. I have no problem with the idea of people exploring their sexuality and being curious, but the term bicurious seems like it's already received negative connotations. I like the term, and I think it can be used with its intended definition in some circles, but in larger, more mainstream ones, it's used as a way to handwave bisexuality. Have others experienced this?

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WesLuck
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Why is it that we're allowed to enjoy different types of pizza yet we're discouraged from enjoying different types of people? [Smile] It IS a double standard. Just because male and female are required to produce a baby doesn't mean that all relationships have to be about producing babies. And when you look at the whole breadth of all types of relationships, most relationships AREN'T used for the purposes of creating a baby, but to share compassion or love or common interests, work etc. or a mixture of them. [Smile]
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MusicNerd
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quote:
Originally posted by WesLuck:
Why is it that we're allowed to enjoy different types of pizza yet we're discouraged from enjoying different types of people? [Smile] It IS a double standard. Just because male and female are required to produce a baby doesn't mean that all relationships have to be about producing babies. And when you look at the whole breadth of all types of relationships, most relationships AREN'T used for the purposes of creating a baby, but to share compassion or love or common interests, work etc. or a mixture of them. [Smile]

^THIS. There are so many different kinds of win in this post, and any analogy using food pretty much grabs my attention. [Smile] I most definitely second that last sentence, too.

These songs touch on both lesbianism and bisexuality. Get ready for lots of links! I’m a music nerd, what can I say? [Big Grin]

The song "So Happy I Could Die" right-off-the-bat references a "lavender blonde" female that Lady Gaga is turned-on by. KT Tunstall's "Suddenly I See" and "Heal Over" seem to reference her attraction/love for a woman, though I think "Suddenly I See" is a bit clearer about it. The White Stripes’ cover of “Jolene” (originally written and sung by Dolly Parton) is one of the few bisexual/gay songs I’ve seen done by a male singer. “All the Things She Said” by t.A.T.u. is one that has a pretty artistic (and somewhat sexualized) take on the spectator-like fascination/disgust with same-sex couples that some people have. They also have “Loves Me Not”, which touches more on bisexuality than lesbianism and “Not Gonna Get Us”. A straight friend of mine actually was the one who introduced me to t.A.T.u.’s music. Go figure. [Smile]

I've also noticed another double-standard: it seems to me that society is more accepting of, and sometimes even turned-on by, the thought of bisexual women versus bisexual men (ex. random girl-on-girl scenes, or allusions to them, in movies). Don't get me wrong, I definitely think there's biphobia for male and female bisexuals, but I think that it's sometimes dismissed as "experimenting" (as LizC mentioned) or deemed "hot" if a female is bi. If a straight guy has a girlfriend who's bi, he's hit the "jackpot"; if a straight girl has a boyfriend who's bi, he's either "secretly gay but hasn't come out fully yet" or he's "gross". There aren't even many role models for bisexual men to look up to it seems. I only know of Channing Tatum and David Bowie who have labeled themselves as bisexual, but plenty of female bisexual celebrities who have identified with the term (Vanessa Carlton, Megan Fox, Angelina Jolie, Lady Gaga, etc.). I think it’s a pretty unfair double-standard. Has anyone else ever noticed that?

[ 07-05-2012, 07:41 PM: Message edited by: MusicNerd ]

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." ~Dr. Seuss

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LizC
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Yay! I'm a huge music nerd, too, but I think I've only heard one of these. I don't know why I didn't think of KT Tunstall; I've always loved Suddenly I See and I've kinda had a crush on her since I first got introduced to her music and image. And how did I not catch that when I was listening to The Fame Monster? I actually was thinking that it was sad(for those of us who want more LGBTQ songs) how all of Lady Gaga's songs were about heterosexual relationships when she has a great platform to express herself as a bisexual woman.
I'd heard of t.A.T.u before, but somehow I never actually listened to them, I think. Thank you very much for the recs! I enjoyed them plenty! [Big Grin]

Exactly! Fetishization isn't the right word exactly, but it almost fits, the way society extremely sexualizes the idea and appeal of bisexual women, somehow suggesting that if a man sleeps with a bisexual women he instantly gets points for all the girls she's slept with or that she'll tell him all her stories or that she'll arrange a threesome or something. Men and women are held to different standards and different ideas. For example, when a woman is bi, it's just a phase that her poor womanly mind can't find its way out of, but when a man is bi, he's a huge creeper who's gonna cheat on you and one day dump you for another man. It's terrible.
(Also, I had no idea Megan Fox identified as bisexual; guh, that just makes her even hotter(if possible), even if she's married and expecting...XD)

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MusicNerd
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Yeah, KT Tunstall is quite a beauty (with a sexy deep-raspy-voice thing going on)! [Smile]

True, a lot of Lady Gaga's songs are about heterosexual relationships and it would definitely be nice to hear more LGBT songs out there on the radio, but I think she's definitely provided a platform for LGBTQ issues considering she's an LGBT activist herself and has done songs like "Born This Way" and was an outspoken advocate for repealing Don't Ask Don't Tell. Supposedly her song "Poker Face" was about sleeping with a man while fantasizing about a woman, which I thought was interesting since I never would've guessed that as the meaning!

"Fetishization" is definitely a pretty close word for how society views bisexual women. Maybe "glorification" would be another? LOL at "poor womanly mind" and "huge creeper"! [Big Grin] Yeah, what is it with the automatic-threesome thing? hahaha! It's not like that applies to every bisexual female. [Roll Eyes] It's so true that the standards are different; I think it's a shame. Supposedly there was a study done at an American university that proved that bisexuality in men actually did exist (*gasp*), contrary to popular belief. I was sitting there like, "Well, of course guys can be bisexual! You really had to do research to figure that out?" smh It's as if society refuses to acknowledge that bisexual men exist, but it's totally logical that I, as a woman, am bi. Makes no sense.

(I know, right? Megan Fox is a total hottie, I don't care what the haters say. *drools* [Wink] )

[ 07-05-2012, 08:51 PM: Message edited by: MusicNerd ]

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." ~Dr. Seuss

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LizC
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Yeah, see, I knew she was an activist(that's awesome), but I've always wished that translated into more of her music. Born This Way was awesome, but it's still just a few songs amongst a sea of hetero-centric stuff. But, I will take what I can get, lol.
Also, I had no idea that was what was up with Poker Face. Cool! That was my first favorite of hers.

Yeah, glorification fits perfectly. It's like society doesn't want to ~condone~ ~alternate~ lifestyles, but they have a huge fascination with bisexual women. Effin' double standards, man. And I still can't get over the number of people who can't conceive that real women in real life are really bisexual and aren't faking and really, honest-to-god do like men and women. It's even worse for men, because there's that stigma attached to being gay or being perceived as gay.

(Yes! I love her, personality and body alike; haters to the left!)

Edited because I used the F-word and it censored it! Woops.

[ 07-05-2012, 08:56 PM: Message edited by: LizC ]

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MusicNerd
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I see where you're coming from with wanting more LGBT songs out there and I totally agree that it'd be nice to hear more of them. Hey, maybe one day in the future we'll hear more; I mean, times have changed a lot so far, right? *optimistic smiley* [Smile]

So true! I definitely do think there are bi-curious women out there, but they tend to identify as bi-curious and not bisexual. Maybe because bisexual women have been put on such a pedestal (in porn, music, movies, etc.) people think, "Oh, well she's doing this just to get more attention from guys" or "Everyone's doing this as a trend". I heard a lot of those arguments aimed at celebrities like (the lovely) Megan Fox.

I guess this is also coupled with the fact that more and more heterosexual women are embracing their "girl crushes" on celebrities (funny video alert). Unfortunately, it's still not acceptable for guys to admit to their "guy crushes"; though the word "bromance" has been popularized when a guy has a best friend that they love. Quite interesting, isn't it?

(LOL! Yes, "to the left, to the left"! <--- I love this woman here, too. [Big Grin] )

Hahaha! It's okay, I swear a lot in real life. [Smile]

[ 07-05-2012, 09:17 PM: Message edited by: MusicNerd ]

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." ~Dr. Seuss

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LizC
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Yep!

And exactly what you said about bicurious...because bisexuality in women is so hyper-sexualized, any form of bi-ness(curiosity, romantic, sexual, etc) tends to make society assume you're an attention-grabbing slut, which is incredibly sexist and terribly derogatory(and slut shaming!)
I know when the whole ~scandal~ with Megan Fox went down, she was ripped apart because she was a confident-appearing sexual women who was no longer willing to put up with a man's sexist BS. And because everyone hated her, she became a punching bag for "oh, she's doing it for fame!" arguments.
/rant

Aaaahh, Jenna Marbles! [Big Grin] But yeah, exactly. I see it a lot, girls and women who are who they are, don't label it, aren't afraid to admit to fun girl crushes or more, and yet guys live in the land of occasionally suggestive bromances and being wary of spending too much time together. It's terrible the way society is trying to hold onto the last vestiges of "proper" gentlemen, when that entire concept is dead and should be dead(oh dear lord, I'm gonna head into a rant about feminism and the role men should take in society...somebody stop me. DX).

Yesss! Everything you own in a box to the left *grooves* She is amazing. [Big Grin]

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MusicNerd
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Yes! Bisexual women are so hyper-sexualized; that's the perfect word for it! Oh, don't even get me started on my rant about how much I can't stand slut-shaming (and prude-shaming for that matter)! DX

People just need to stop hating on Megan Fox. Her sexual confidence is so appealing and, well, sexy. She's gorgeous, they need to get over it. Haters gonna hate. lol [Big Grin]

What's terrible is how society is still trying to write out what's "proper" for men and women with outdated gender roles/stereotypes.

I love Jenna Marbles so much! She's always keepin' it real. "Eva Mendes, how can I get Ryan Gosling to be my boyfriend?" Truth! lol [Big Grin]

Oh! And I just remembered another bi/gay song. Fun. did a cover of Carly Rae Jepsen's "Call Me Maybe". I have yet to see a man do a song about another man without it having been a cover of a song done originally by a woman.

[ 07-07-2012, 11:41 PM: Message edited by: MusicNerd ]

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." ~Dr. Seuss

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LizC
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Any kind of shaming re: your sexuality and how you choose to engage it is crazy. Around here, we get have two cultures, and one's big on slut-shaming(a girl should only have sex with a few guys and never advertise it) and the other is big on prude-shaming(anyone who doesn't sleep with every boyfriend they have). A lot of girls just can't win, which is part of what makes it despicable. And that tied with bisexuality, dear lord, it might give most people a heart attack from shock and disapproval.

Exactly! They're outdated for a reason; they don't fit into modern society. People should just let it go. Adapt to survive.

Cool! Gotta check it out. [Smile]

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Heather
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A few more queer/bisexual women musicians or bands with women who are bisexual in them I didn't see here yet to add for y'all:
• Ani DiFranco
• Sleater Kinney
• Le Tigre
• Sweet Honey in the Rock
• Joan Jett
• Me'Shell NdegeOcello

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MusicNerd
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Sweet, more artists to check out! Thanks, Heather! How could I forget Joan Jett? I've been listening to a ton of her music lately. I remembered her explaining in an interview once why she doesn't disclose her orientation: "It really boils down to this: I want to please everybody. I want every guy and every girl thinking that I'm singing these songs to them, because I am. If I make a hard, fast case on where I stand then that takes away a lot of the fantasy. Music entails a lot of fantasy. I want people to be able to go there with me. Some people might think it's a cop-out. I don't care. That's how I feel." She's really cool. [Smile] The whole interview’s here if anyone’s interested in reading it.

I also forgot to add La Roux who said “herself” that “she” doesn't consider “herself” to be any specific orientation or gender. I put words like “she” in quotations, since La Roux said that “I don’t feel like I’m male or female” yet the female pronouns are the ones that journalists use to describe the artist. Two really catchy songs by La Roux are “Bulletproof” (probably the most popular one) and “In for the Kill”.

I don't think that's just in Texas; I think that's all across America. -__-" Once I realized that I can’t win as a bisexual woman (or just being a woman, period), I was like, “Prude-shaming, slut-shaming… Screw it all! I’ve only got one life to live, so I’m gonna live it up (with safety in mind, of course)!” [Smile]

“Adapt to survive.” No truer words have been spoken.

Fun fact: The band Fun. is a trio of three straight guys who are advocates for LGBT rights. That makes them even awesomer in my eyes. When you said, “Gotta check it out,” it made me think, Pokémon. Gotta catch ‘em all! [Big Grin]

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." ~Dr. Seuss

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WesLuck
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Sneaky Pokémon, they poké their faces into everything! <grin>

[ 07-10-2012, 08:23 AM: Message edited by: WesLuck ]

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MusicNerd
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quote:
Originally posted by WesLuck:
Sneaky Pokémon, they poké their faces into everything! <grin>

LOL! WesLuck, you're so punny. [Big Grin]

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." ~Dr. Seuss

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MusicNerd
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I instantly thought of this thread when I heard this song, LizC! It's called "Bad Religion" and it's by Frank Ocean who came out about his first love being with a man. This is not only groundbreaking since he's a male artist, but because he's a black hip-hop artist. There's been a lot of pressure in the black community and in the hip-hop culture for men in particular to be on the "downlow" (which is pretty much like saying "in the closet"). But as the article mentions (the third link in this post), those attitudes might have finally started to shift in black and hip-hop culture. This is not to say that non-black people don't go through discrimination for their orientation or that every single black person is homophobic; I myself am a half-black bisexual woman who knows other black people who are non-straight or are supportive of non-straight people (including my straight mom who's supportive of me [Smile] ), but this is quite a surprise since the black community and hip-hop culture has been openly behind in terms of thinking more open-mindedly about sexuality. I couldn't believe that I finally found a male singer who came out and performed a song on live TV about his first unrequited love who he sings could "never make him love me"!

Disclaimer: Contrary to the song title, Frank Ocean is not singing negatively about religion and Ocean himself is spiritual/religious (at least he seems to be from his letter). The "bad religion" he's referencing is the pain and heartbreak over his first love; he actually sings at one point, "It's a bad religion to be in love with someone who could never love you". I thought I should clear that up, because I hope the song title doesn't offend any religious or spiritual people on here!

[ 07-17-2012, 12:33 AM: Message edited by: MusicNerd ]

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." ~Dr. Seuss

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WesLuck
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quote:
Originally posted by MusicNerd:
quote:
Originally posted by WesLuck:
Sneaky Pokémon, they poké their faces into everything! <grin>

LOL! WesLuck, you're so punny. [Big Grin]
I had to use Character Map too to be punny [Wink] (CharMap.exe is a Windows program that allows you to copy different characters in different fonts or different keyboard types onto the clipboard).

Just thinking about it now, I could have posted copper86's "é" instead! (EDIT: Except it was in italics! That's why I had to look for it. [Wink] ) Anyway, it's good to know that you can open it up in most Windows versions 95 or later by opening the Start menu and typing in "charmap" or "charmap.exe" and pressing enter. [Smile]

[ 07-17-2012, 07:54 AM: Message edited by: WesLuck ]

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MusicNerd
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You know you could've just copied and pasted the "é" in my "Pokémon" post. lol [Big Grin]

I had no idea charmap existed in my Start menu! Mindblown!! Whenever I would type in Spanish on facebook or somewhere outside of Microsoft Word, it was always such a struggle; but this makes my life so much easier! [Smile] Actually, since we were talking about Pokémon, when you typed "charmap" it made me think of "Charmander"... Good grief! [Roll Eyes]

[ 07-17-2012, 01:15 PM: Message edited by: MusicNerd ]

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." ~Dr. Seuss

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WesLuck
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I don't know where I got the idea that copper86 said Pokémon. It was you all along. Although you said it in italics, and I didn't want it in italics. [Wink]

(Btw: charmap.exe is the filename. But it's pretty interesting that it sounds similar to a Pokémon character. [Wink] Also, charmap isn't exactly in the start menu, but typing it out finds it. I'm not sure if all Windows from 95 onwards (including XP) enabled one to find a file on disk by typing it into the start menu. But Vista and 7 definitely do. [Smile] )

It's funny, it must be pretty cool to be able to talk in italics! Do you have a scribe?

[ 07-18-2012, 10:35 AM: Message edited by: WesLuck ]

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MusicNerd
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I understood what you were saying about charmap. I meant that I was excited to be able to search it in the Start menu and finally use it! [Smile]

Not a scribe exactly, more like UBB Code. lol [Big Grin]

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." ~Dr. Seuss

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Atonement
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I don't know if he identifies as bisexual, but Gavin Rossdale (frontman of the band Bush) acknowledged that he had had a sexual relationship with a guy before he met/married Gwen Stefani.

But, I don't believe any of that reflects in any of his music, but then I am not a very thorough fan of Bush, and haven't heard all their songs.

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LizC
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Joan Jett is amazing. I love her music and image. And La Roux! They played Bulletproof one year at New Year's Eve, and I had to hear the rest.

I heard/saw the explosion online when he officially came out; it was amazing how, while there were lots of detractors, support appeared out of nowhere and Channel Orange has become a huge hit. I haven't had a chance to listen to it yet, but it comes out on Spotify in a few weeks, and I'm totally hitting it up then.


Also; I didn't know that about Gavin! I've heard some of his stuff; not much, but a bit, and I like it...might have to check out Bush!

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