Donate Now
  
my profile | directory login | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Scarleteen Boards: 2000 - 2014 (Archive) » SCARLETEEN CENTRAL » LGBTQA Relationships » spirituality issue

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: spirituality issue
Wolverine22
Activist
Member # 95968

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Wolverine22     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm bi, and my Christian upbringing taught me to stay abstinent until marriage. But that's only if I'm with a girl. I'm a virgin on the straight side, but I've slept with 3 guys in on/off type relationships. Friends with benefits. It's like, with girls I'm really, really picky (I'm a guy), but with guys, I want to sleep with every guy I see. Why am I like this? Am I gay?
Posts: 40 | From: I've lived all over the USA, but I hold true to my Michigan roots | Registered: Jun 2012  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BrightStar171
Peer Ambassador
Member # 64549

Icon 1 posted      Profile for BrightStar171     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, there are two things about sexuality that make your question kind of hard to answer. One is that it's very often fluid, so over the course of our lives, we may find times when we're more attracted to women and times when we're more attracted to men. That sort of shifting is perfectly normal. The other thing is that our sexuality is something much more defined by ourselves than by any objective criteria. There are no lists or checkboxes that someone could go over and say, "Yep, that person's bi," or "Oh, that person's gay." It really just depends on how we choose to identify. Plenty of people who identify as bi are more attracted to one gender over the other, and plenty of people who identify as gay (or straight, for that matter) are sometimes attracted to people of the gender they're not usually attracted to. Does that make sense?

In your case, it sounds like you have some issues based on your upbringing that make you less comfortable thinking about women as sex partners than you are thinking about men as sex partners. That's fine if it's something you're happy with, but certainly if it's a problem for you we can talk about why you might feel that way, and ways you might change the way you think about it.

Posts: 100 | From: Virginia, USA | Registered: May 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Wolverine22
Activist
Member # 95968

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Wolverine22     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, let's talk about that. I had also thought that maybe it was because I have had sex with guys before that I'm not as selective with them. I've never been in a close relationship with a girl either. Like, I've been really close friends with a few, but no benefits. [Frown] All I really want is a partner for life, to do everything together with them, have a family, and so on. I want a woman for a real relationship, but I just want to sleep with guys and nothing really else, and it goes against every fiber of my upbringing.
Posts: 40 | From: I've lived all over the USA, but I hold true to my Michigan roots | Registered: Jun 2012  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BrightStar171
Peer Ambassador
Member # 64549

Icon 1 posted      Profile for BrightStar171     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, can you talk to me a little bit about how you think being in a relationship with, or being sexual with, a girl is/would be different that being in a relationship or being sexual with a guy?

Actually, it'd also help me if you could explain a little bit something you said in your first post, that your upbringing taught you to stay abstinent until marriage with girls, but not with guys. Is that actually what you were told, or is that your own personal spin on things? If so, what, to you, is the difference about girls that makes it okay to be sexual with guys when it's important to you to be abstinent with women?

Posts: 100 | From: Virginia, USA | Registered: May 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
copper86
Peer Ambassador
Member # 95710

Icon 1 posted      Profile for copper86     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
After reading through this thread, I'm not entirely sure if I can offer any concrete advice; but I am somewhat in the same position as you, Wolverine22, as far as being brought up in a spiritual/religious framework that frowned upon pre-marital sex. Would it be okay if you told me what denomination you identify with; or whatever denomination you were raised with? It might be helpful if you tell us that; also because I want to know if your denomination or people within your denomination had stated that you must stay abstinent with women; but sex with men is all right. I have actually never heard of that before - with me, the emphasis was on no pre-marital sex and abstinence before marriage with any gender - but that doesn't mean that I am trying to contradict you in any way at all!

I can certainly empathize with you about spirituality playing a role in your sex life; and how it affects how you view having sex with others in relation to how you were brought up. My parents raised my very conservatively; so when I first started having sex, I was sometimes at odds with my spirituality, especially since I was doing something that went against what I was taught for so long. But, after having spoken with the Chaplain at my university, she told me that God created us and that He also created sex; and sex was meant to be enjoyed and if partners were being respected and valued, then that is what counted. I think that, if you want, you can still be spiritual and be intimate - that is something that's between you and the God of your choosing; and not really between you, the God of your choosing, your family, your friends, the church you go to, etc. Do you know what I mean?

Anyway, I think when it comes to who you're attracted to, there is really no "right" or "wrong" answer. I identify as heterosexual, but I often appraise girls with my guy friends and can appreciate how attractive a woman is. Just because you are having sexual relationships with men does not mean you are purely gay (unless you want to be, then that is you perogative and that is perfectly fine!); likewise if you are having sex with only women, then that means you are straight.

When you say you want a "real relationship" with a woman and just wanting to sleep with guys and nothing else, does that mean you want to have sex with men but not be in a relationship with them? Again, that is your decision to make and if that is how you feel, there is nothing wrong with that. It'd be like if someone had casual/friends with benefits relationships with any gender for a while and then decided, down the road, to start serious dating relationships and maybe get married. People's lifestyles and ways of living change frequently; so don't feel as if you have to "stay" in one dating phase or another with one single gender.

I hope I haven't offended you; and if I wrote anything that does not apply to you, feel free to just disregard it! [Smile]

--------------------
"I do the best that I can. I'm just what I am." - Rush (Best I Can)

Posts: 692 | From: Canada | Registered: May 2012  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Wolverine22
Activist
Member # 95968

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Wolverine22     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As for being abstinent with women and not men, the main reason is because I can't get a guy pregnant. It's not something that the church says, with the girls not guys thing, I don't go to church. I don't really want a relationship with a guy, I prefer to have a girl, with whom I can naturally have a family with, and so on. I find guys attractive and I've only slept with three of them. Two I feel like I took advantage of, because they were curious about their sexuality and I said I'd be here if they wanted to experiment. So we jumped in bed and I went all the way. The other one was the neighbor of a cousin I was staying with when I was on vacation and he was gay and I knew he was gay, and one thing led to another. Aside from that, I am a virgin on the heterosexual side, and I've never been in a relationship. My spiritual beliefs say that I should keep myself a virgin until marriage, and I don't have a problem with that, but I don't want to go to hell for having sex with guys, and I don't want to sleep around with guys behind her back when I do get into a real relationship.
Posts: 40 | From: I've lived all over the USA, but I hold true to my Michigan roots | Registered: Jun 2012  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
copper86
Peer Ambassador
Member # 95710

Icon 1 posted      Profile for copper86     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The one thing I really want to talk to you about is regarding what you said about "not wanting to go to hell for having sex with men."

Personal beliefs are exactly that - personal - but I just want to check in a bit about that. Since beliefs are so personal, I don't want to say that yours are "wrong" and mine are "right" - so please do not think that I am trying to do that - but in my own personal opinion, pre-marital sex or having sex with men if someone is gay will not make you go to hell. As I have been told by pastors and by other Christians, being gay is not the unpardonable sin; and will not mean you are going to hell. To be honest, I feel a little uncomfortable discussing this on a public forum like this - since I do not want to make it look like I am "pushing" religion on someone or pushing my views on someone - so what I would suggest for you is to find a pastor or someone you trust, and openly ask them about your concerns. I can only tell you my viewpoint; but maybe talking to a minister about this will help you. Even if you don't go to church, you can still talk to one (does your family go to church and/or know someone?). Again, I hope I was not offensive or too bold or outright. Please forgive me and disregard this part of my post if you were. [Smile]

If you would like to stay abstinent with women before marriage, then that is your choice; and that is perfectly fine. If the two men you feel you had "taken advantage of" had given you firm consent before engaging in sexual activity, then you did not take advantage of them in a physical way at all.

It sounds like you want a relationship and a family with a woman, which is also fine. But even if you are attracted to men, that doesn't mean that you will be unfaithful or anything like that during your marriage. You can be attracted to both genders and still be in exclusive, monogamous relationship with one gender - I have a few friends who are bisexual and who do just that. [Smile]

[ 07-05-2012, 10:01 PM: Message edited by: copper86 ]

--------------------
"I do the best that I can. I'm just what I am." - Rush (Best I Can)

Posts: 692 | From: Canada | Registered: May 2012  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Wolverine22
Activist
Member # 95968

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Wolverine22     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No, you didn't offend me at all, and I like your advice, Copper. I'm spiritual, not religious, and it's just from the bible that I'm not supposed to have sex with guys and that was on my mind.
Posts: 40 | From: I've lived all over the USA, but I hold true to my Michigan roots | Registered: Jun 2012  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
copper86
Peer Ambassador
Member # 95710

Icon 1 posted      Profile for copper86     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Great! I'm glad! I'm spiritual too. [Smile]

One thing about the Bible that has come up in my church discussions and just in everyday life... The Bible is very often taken out of context and is twisted into "fitting" the situations that other people put them in. For example, one Bible verse taken out of context is when Jesus says, "For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them." (Matthew 18:20) So, lots of people automatically think that in order for God to hear their prayer, they gotta be with this exact number of people; but the context is actually referring to relational conflict and not really praying on your own. Does that make sense? What is the Bible verse that states that sex with men will make you go to hell?

Also, if you are looking at any kind of verse from the Old Testament, the laws and lots of culture from that time have changed drastically from that part of the Bible/time to the New Testament; so those verses might not be as "relevant" now as they were during the time that it was written.

Everyone interprets everything in different ways; so if you've also heard this from others, they are insinuating their own opinions, contexts, and situations into what they've read anyway, which would also taint the Scripture from its intended context. The same happens when we interpret any kind of literature from anything - be it books, textbooks, or biographies. [Smile]

--------------------
"I do the best that I can. I'm just what I am." - Rush (Best I Can)

Posts: 692 | From: Canada | Registered: May 2012  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
LianHua
Neophyte
Member # 96145

Icon 1 posted      Profile for LianHua     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It sounds to me that you are holding onto some of the ideas regarding sex that you were raised with that you should be questioning because there seems to be quite a disconnect.

For example, you seem to express that your sexual relationships with men were somehow less serious or didn't count and that you would prefer to have a relationship with a woman because you could have a biological family. Also interestingly, you seem to emphasize that in regards to women you are a virgin.

It seems to me that you try to live up to the conservative Christian ideal: no sex before marriage enforced by fear of pregnancy, heterosexual marriages with expected children, perhaps no birth control, etc. while at the same time, finding a sexual release with men (but even there, you can't win because homosexuality is strongly discouraged in conservative Christian culture).

I really think you need to evaluate yourself and your beliefs. Would you continue to have sex with only men if you felt that sex with women was an option? Would you consider serious relationships with men if you felt that marriage didn't have to be a picture of a man and a woman with their biological offspring? Also, how do you feel about sexual expression in general?

Posts: 13 | From: California | Registered: Jun 2012  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Wolverine22
Activist
Member # 95968

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Wolverine22     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, I guess I haven't really fully explained my beliefs. As a spiritual Christian, not involved with any church whatsoever, I personally believe that Jesus died for everybody's sins, and I mean ALL sins, not just ones that people don't feel like including. I also believe in birth control. If you can't afford kids, then by all means, wear a glove, take a pill, or if all else fails, have an abortion. I'm pro choice and pro birth control.

I don't want to get an STD, and I don't want an unintended pregnancy, and the other relationship things are why I want to wait until heterosexual marriage to have sex with women, but I don't sleep around with guys. I haven't had sex at all in about a year, and I've so far tried to stop the homosexual flings. I'd be open to a long-term relationship with a guy, but I think that the whole "sleeping with guys" thing is just more in my comfort zone, because I already know who's gay or at least into guys and I know how to get them to have sex with me.

I've never been in a relationship with a girl, and I've never really been in a relationship with a guy either. But I want a relationship with a woman because I do want kids that are genetically mine. I do want a girl, I really do. That part has some to do with my spiritual beliefs, but it's mostly my personal preferences.

Posts: 40 | From: I've lived all over the USA, but I hold true to my Michigan roots | Registered: Jun 2012  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
MusicNerd
Peer Ambassador
Member # 95998

Icon 1 posted      Profile for MusicNerd     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey there, Wolverine! STD risks occur in having sex with men or women, and there are various combinations of birth control out there that could help prevent unintended pregnancies. If you're ever curious to see how effective they are, you could check out these estimated statistics of many different combinations of contraceptives: The Buddy System: Effectiveness Rates for Backing Up Your Birth Control With a Second Method

What "other relationship things" for "waiting until heterosexual marriage to have sex" are you talking about? You might have already mentioned them, but I didn't quite catch them from your previous posts.

Why have you tried to stop the flings you've had with men?

I see that you’ve mentioned that you want kids that are genetically yours, but being with a woman doesn’t necessarily guarantee having kids; some heterosexual couples are unable to have children. Do you think that adopting kids (whether you’re with a man or a woman) would make them any less yours? I’m not trying to be sarcastic or anything (not at all!), I’m just genuinely curious since you seem to have expressed having biological children as a factor for exclusively wanting to marry women in several of your posts.

Speaking as a bisexual female who's also never been in any sort of relationship with a man or a woman, I personally think that sexual encounters are sexual encounters regardless of your partner's sex. It seems to me that you've already had pre-marital sex, just with people of the same sex as you. How do you think waiting until marriage to have sex with women would be any different?

I think that the reason why some people who are religiously or spiritually Christian (though I'm sure this doesn't apply to every single Christian, which is why I said "some") frame pre-marital sex as “sex between a man and a woman” is because marriage itself is framed as “a union between a man and a woman” in some branches of Christianity. Do you think those definitions of “pre-marital sex” and “marriage” are what have influenced you to feel the way you currently do?

Even though I consider myself to be an atheist now (I was baptized Catholic as a kid), I found this one saying I saw outside of a Salvation Army to be quite amusing anyway: "Wanna know how to make God laugh? Tell him your future plans." I don't think it's wise to try and plan out your whole life and confine yourself into wanting solely a long-term relationship with a woman in the future or boxing yourself into solely having flings with men in the future. I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with feeling that way right now or ever, but I’d just like to point out that just because you feel this way at this point in your life doesn't necessarily mean that it's set in stone and it has to be that way forever. Sexuality's pretty fluid, it's cool like that. [Smile] For me personally, I'm all about just going with the flow in terms of attraction. I remember trying to deny to myself that I thought a girl at my school was really, really hot last year (before I came to terms with my bisexuality), and I was pissed off and confused about myself. Then when I finally just went with it and accepted that I was attracted to her, even though I knew she was straight, I was able to be at ease with myself.

I guess what I'm trying to say here at the end of all that rambling, is that: If you find yourself desiring a long-term relationship or a fling with a man someday, that's cool; if you find yourself desiring a long-term relationship or a fling with a woman someday, that's cool too. I think since a lot of people's preferences shift over time and the people we meet could possibly make us rethink them too, it would be wise to not confine yourself to assigning certain relationship models to people of a certain sex for the rest of your life. For example, I myself want flings and don't want to be in a long-term relationship with anyone right now (male or female), but I know that I might meet someone in the future who'll change my mind. You might find that you do end up having a long-term relationship and kids with a woman, or you might find that you end up having a long-term relationship and kids with a man instead. Who knows? I think that whatever happens, it's best to just let the chips fall where they may and maybe that'll help you feel less conflicted in the end.

[ 07-10-2012, 12:01 AM: Message edited by: MusicNerd ]

--------------------
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." ~Dr. Seuss

Posts: 301 | From: a galaxy far, far away... | Registered: Jun 2012  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Wolverine22
Activist
Member # 95968

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Wolverine22     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I was an atheist for most of my life (despite being brought up in a Christian home) and I basically said "Screw abstinence" and had sex with three guys. Well, now that I'm a Christian, I feel like God is calling on me to stop that and wait for a spouse. So I'm doing as I'm told. You don't have to agree with me, but that's just being honest as to why I'm doing what I'm doing.

I know the STD risks, and I'm clean, and I intend to stay that way. But no, if I get into a serious relationship with someone, either gender, I'm going to need to stock up on condoms.

Posts: 40 | From: I've lived all over the USA, but I hold true to my Michigan roots | Registered: Jun 2012  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Wolverine22
Activist
Member # 95968

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Wolverine22     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
But as for the children thing, I wouldn't mind adopting kids, but I really, really want kids that are biologically mine. I go to college next year, and I hear its a bit easier to experiment there. So we'll just see.
Posts: 40 | From: I've lived all over the USA, but I hold true to my Michigan roots | Registered: Jun 2012  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
MusicNerd
Peer Ambassador
Member # 95998

Icon 1 posted      Profile for MusicNerd     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm glad to hear that you're aware of the STD risks! From your earlier post, I was under the impression that you were worried about STDs and/or unintended pregnancies from women specifically. Based on that impression, I wanted to mention that having sex with men or women could pose risks for STDs and that there're reliable combinations of birth control out there for preventing pregnancies. I could have totally misinterpreted your earlier post though, but that was the only reason why I posted the article on birth control methods and mentioned those things about STDs.

We all have diverse sets of beliefs, and even though an all-powerful god isn’t a part of mine, I think we can possibly agree that if this being did exist then they would have bigger fish to fry like wars, starvation or poverty all over the world. With all of those other issues on their plate, they probably wouldn’t have enough time to worry too much or judge you about what you decide to do or not do in your sex life. [Smile] If abstinence is something that you want to do because that’s what you truly desire for yourself, then I think that’s entirely your choice to make.

I’ve abstained from sex my whole life, even when most of my peers decided they were ready for sex. I felt like I wasn’t ready at the time, but it’s only now that I feel I’m prepared for sex. So, I’m not against abstinence at all (it would be hypocritical of me, really) nor am I against people waiting until marriage to have sex (my mom did and so did some other people I know), but I’m sorry if I came off that way in my earlier post.

My whole thing was definitely not to discourage you from making your own choices or from abstaining until marriage if that’s something you want right now, but instead to:
1. Point out that pre-marital sex is pre-marital sex regardless of the sex of your partner(s)
2. Make sure you weren’t stopping your flings with men because you felt like you were a bad person for doing that or something (since unfortunately some people feel that way about themselves and I was going to assure you that you're not a bad person for having had/desiring to have flings with men)
and
3. Point out that it’s okay to just go with what you’re attracted to instead of assigning specific relationship models to people of different sexes for the rest of your life.

Kudos to you for stocking up on condoms! Safer sex, for the win! *throws confetti* [Smile] (Is it weird to throw confetti for that…? Oh well, probably. But I’ll do it anyway! [Big Grin] ) I too have heard that college is more inclusive about sexuality and/or experimenting, so I agree with your whole “we’ll see” take on that.

--------------------
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." ~Dr. Seuss

Posts: 301 | From: a galaxy far, far away... | Registered: Jun 2012  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Wolverine22
Activist
Member # 95968

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Wolverine22     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have another question though, and that's if you did get into a sexual relationship with someone, would you want/need to know how many people/who they've slept with? I heard that somewhere that whoever you take to bed will want to know who and how many you've had.

As for the confetti, whoa, now you're getting kinky. [Wink]

[ 07-20-2012, 09:46 AM: Message edited by: Wolverine22 ]

Posts: 40 | From: I've lived all over the USA, but I hold true to my Michigan roots | Registered: Jun 2012  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
LianHua
Neophyte
Member # 96145

Icon 1 posted      Profile for LianHua     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Wolverine, I've heard you say that you would prefer romantic and sexual relationships with women because you would be able to have biological children, because of your spiritual beliefs, and because of personal preferences. Are you sexually attracted to women? Is sexual attraction a motivator in your desire to have relationships with women?

Additionally, when you said that you felt like God was telling you to stop sexual activities to wait for a spouse, did you feel like that hypothetical person had to be a woman? Would you be open to dating men?

Posts: 13 | From: California | Registered: Jun 2012  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Wolverine22
Activist
Member # 95968

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Wolverine22     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah, I think I'm sexually attracted to women. I mean, when I watch porn, either gender works. But yes, I felt like God told me to wait for a female spouse and that it would happen later, just not now.
Posts: 40 | From: I've lived all over the USA, but I hold true to my Michigan roots | Registered: Jun 2012  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
MusicNerd
Peer Ambassador
Member # 95998

Icon 1 posted      Profile for MusicNerd     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You know, on the whole “making your own sexual choices” bit, the reason why I mentioned that “if there was an all-powerful being, then they’d probably have bigger fish to fry like worldwide poverty” is because I think that it’s ultimately the individual’s choice (and no one else’s) to have sex or to abstain or to date or marry people of whatever sex.

I’ve noticed that some people in my life have felt pressure from their friends, faith, family or society to adhere to standards that they had not set for themselves when it came to their personal lives (ex. having sex because their friends claimed to have done it and they didn’t want to seem “uncool”, abstaining because their faith/family/society tells them to, only dating people of a certain sex because that’s what their family/faith/friends expect, etc). I too have been subject to pressure, but it was from society in particular, so I know how it feels to feel like someone’s telling you to follow certain rules in your personal life.

I think that those people who were under pressure or felt conflicted felt much happier when they sat down and thought to themselves, “Alright, what do I myself want in my dating/personal/sex life right now?” instead of thinking about what their faith or friends or society or anyone else wanted. I know I did. [Smile] If you ask yourself that question (and block out for a moment what anyone else is telling you) and you just so happen to have an answer that matches what others want, then that’s fine as long as it’s what you want and a decision that you came to on your own. If you ask yourself that same question and have an answer that goes against what others want, then that’s fine too, as long as it’s what you want and a decision that you came to on your own.

Does that make sense? If it doesn’t, then just let me know.

quote:
Originally posted by Wolverine22:
As for the confetti, whoa, now you're getting kinky. [Wink]

That was not was I was intentionally going for, but sure, it’s totally kinky. LOL! [Big Grin]

quote:
Originally posted by Wolverine22:
I have another question though, and that's if you did get into a sexual relationship with someone, would you want/need to know how many people/who they've slept with? I heard that somewhere that whoever you take to bed will want to know who and how many you've had.

Are you asking me for my opinion on if I personally care how many people someone's slept with before I sleep with them, or are you asking me, “Should I be concerned about how many people/who my partner’s slept with before I sleep with them?”
If you are asking for my own opinion though, then that’s another thing you could just let me know about, and then I totally wouldn’t mind telling you my answer to: “If you did get into a sexual relationship with someone, would you want/need to know how many people/who they've slept with?”

As for the second part of your post, I don't think that every single person "you take to bed will want to know who and how many you've had" necessarily. If anyone ever does want to know though, then that's up to you if you want to disclose that information to them or not. You don't need to feel obligated to tell them if you don’t want to though, since it’s not really their business but ultimately yours instead and it’s also your choice to reveal that kind of personal information or not.

[ 07-22-2012, 12:57 AM: Message edited by: MusicNerd ]

--------------------
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." ~Dr. Seuss

Posts: 301 | From: a galaxy far, far away... | Registered: Jun 2012  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Wolverine22
Activist
Member # 95968

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Wolverine22     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well sure, I'd like your opinion on that one, and I'm glad you weren't offended at the confetti comment [Razz]

But anyway, yeah, I heard some Christian abstinence speaker named Pam Stenzel (You can check her out on YouTube) say that you're going to have to tell everybody you ever sleep with exactly who you've been with. Didn't know if there was any truth to that.

Posts: 40 | From: I've lived all over the USA, but I hold true to my Michigan roots | Registered: Jun 2012  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
naplement
Activist
Member # 46362

Icon 1 posted      Profile for naplement     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't understand even the logic of the last part of that. Who would want that from you? God? Your future partners?

In the mainstream interpretation of the bible (I am no scholar) Jesus has forgiven the woman who has cheated on her husband, saved her from being stoned ("may the first stone be thrown by that one of you who is without sin" - and noone dared to be that one), and left her with a clean slate - even her, who has participated in a relationship which was considered obviously bad by the society around her and even Jesus himself, if his words were reported correctly (ok, even I dislike cheating, but I have no idea how divorce worked back then and what her situation was). I understood that she didn't ended up with extra obligations like this. I haven't met this obligation (to give a list of names?) anywhere, and I used to be a Christian.

On the other hand, if a future partner of yours will want that list, you can decide to give it or not, and then she or he can decide if they still want to sleep with you. But it does sound like an unusual request. People generally have the right to ask for things, even strange things like this, but if you are not into telling them the list, the two of you can always just stop it and not sleep together.

I personally wouldn't care for my partner's exes, and a list of names wouldn't serve me anyway, because I wouldn't know those people... This theory seems to be based on another one, which says that the longer the list is, the worse you are as a person, and I do. not. believe.that.

This question might be also based on the need to know more about the risks one is taking, as in STIs, but it's much more logical to ask for STD test results, or to be interested in how consistently they use condoms and other barrier methods (sex can't be made 100% safe, but these do reduce the risks a lot). But unlikely infections can happen, so I'd stuck with safer sex methods and asking for test results.

I just don't see the logic in this theory of that speaker, other than trying to make young people afraid to have too many partners, by suggesting that others will be judging them. But they are people who will judge you and others who won't, and you should rather seek to act according to your own moral values, instead of based on what an imaginary future partner might happen to think. especially since you get to choose your future partners. [Smile]

so if you are a person who wants to rarely sleep with anybody, you can do it and then seek someone who can love you for who you are. If you are a person who can sleep with others more often and who can enjoy the benefits of it, then you also get to seek out future partners who will like you, including this trait of you, and won't judge you for it. Getting together with someone who would be horrified by a list too long would be just as impractical as getting together with someone who would judge you because your list would be too short, so you wouldn't be adventurous enough for him/her.

so compatibility is the key.

Posts: 124 | From: hungary | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Redskies
Scarleteen Volunteer
Member # 79774

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Redskies     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi, Wolverine.

Nope, there's no truth in "you have to tell everybody you sleep with exactly who you've been with". Our sexual histories are our personal information, and private up to and until we choose to share whatever we want to about them. We definitely don't have to share exactly who our partners were, their names, what they were like, etc.

However, we Do have a responsibility to share certain things about our sexual histories with our current and/or potential partners. These things cover our partner's right to make their own informed choices about whether a sexual relationship with us is what they want.

The first big thing is health. I think that an inquiry from a partner about our positive/negative STI status, when we last got tested, exactly what those tests were for and whether they were comprehensive, and how many sexual partners we've had since those tests, and how responsible we were about safer sex with those partners, are absolutely fair inquiries and ones that we have a responsibility to answer honestly or not engage in sex with the person asking. To me, that's not about a potential partner asking about our private business, but getting the information they need to make the right decisions for them; and particularly important when it's about their health. If we have an STI, we have a responsibility to tell a potential partner, even if they don't ask. I also think that we have a responsibility to tell a potential partner if we have a history of unsafe sex and haven't been tested since then.

On a slightly more ethical slant, I do think it's important to be honest and not mislead people. For example, I really don't think details are usually necessary, but if we had a potential partner for whom it was very important that we hadn't had any, or many, partners previously, I think it would be wrong to pretend that applied to us if it didn't. I don't necessarily agree with the outlook of that person, but I do think each person has the right to decide what they do and don't want and to expect that their partner will be respectful of that and honest with them.

--------------------
The kyriarchy usually assumes that I am the kind of woman of whom it would approve. I have a peculiar kind of fun showing it just how much I am not.

Posts: 1786 | From: Europe | Registered: Sep 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
MusicNerd
Peer Ambassador
Member # 95998

Icon 1 posted      Profile for MusicNerd     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Wolverine22:
Well sure, I'd like your opinion on that one, and I'm glad you weren't offended at the confetti comment [Razz]

But anyway, yeah, I heard some Christian abstinence speaker named Pam Stenzel (You can check her out on YouTube) say that you're going to have to tell everybody you ever sleep with exactly who you've been with. Didn't know if there was any truth to that.

Okay, and no I wasn't offended at all by that confetti comment. [Smile]

Well, my opinion isn’t reflective of everyone’s out there (nor could anyone’s opinion ever be), but for me personally? No, I don't care. I don't care if it's their first time or 100th time when they sleep with me and I don’t care who they've slept with either. Really. I don't think it's any of my business, just like I don't think it would be any of theirs to know how many times I've had or not had sex, who it was with or how many people it’s been with.

Some people say that they would ask how many times their partner’s had sex/how many partners they’ve had because they’re worried about potential STIs that someone’s carrying, but that's not going to offer them protection since:
1. While it’s true that the chances of contracting an STI go up the more partners someone has, a person could’ve had sex with just 1 person (a spouse, even) and have contracted an STI
2. A person could’ve contracted an STI non-sexually and slept with 0 people ever
and
3. Anytime someone has sex, there is some potential risk for STIs; but if that person’s using condoms properly and they’re getting tested regularly, then that would greatly reduce the chance of contracting STIs/reduce the chance of allowing a treatable STI to develop into something untreatable (ex. having chlamydia that goes untreated)

If it's not about their health then it seems to me, as Naplement said, that they would use it to judge the person negatively if they had a lot of partners (which is something I too disagree with).
Sidenote: By the way, "a lot" is subjective and varies from person to person. For some people it could be more than just 1 person, for others it could be more than 3 or 5 or 10, but there's no universal number for "a lot" or "a little". Just thought I'd put that out there. [Smile]

In a nutshell, I agree with Naplement and Redskies in that if someone was concerned about their health in their inquiry, then it would make more sense to ask for that person’s STI status, when they were last tested and how often they practice using condoms instead of asking for "exactly who you've been with".

Unless someone felt the need to tell me their history for some reason (like if they had a traumatic sexual experience and they felt the need to vent to me) then I otherwise wouldn’t really care to know other things about their sexual past like who they've slept with/number of times they’ve had sex, since I think that's ultimately the individual's choice to tell or not to tell. I mean, I'd tell my doctor if I was sexually active, but that other stuff about "who" and "how many times/partners" is no one's business but mine in my opinion.

[ 07-22-2012, 09:35 PM: Message edited by: MusicNerd ]

--------------------
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." ~Dr. Seuss

Posts: 301 | From: a galaxy far, far away... | Registered: Jun 2012  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
WesLuck
Activist
Member # 56822

Icon 1 posted      Profile for WesLuck     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, it sounds to me that people who want to know how many times/how many partners are just trying to get leverage to shame if they consider that too many/much. STIs one might have are relevant (and you can have tests for STIs if needed), number of times/partners just isn't.
Posts: 540 | From: Australia | Registered: Feb 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Wolverine22
Activist
Member # 95968

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Wolverine22     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Me either on the "rehearse your past" part, and that's why I asked. Personally, if I loved someone enough that I wanted to have sex/marry them, I wouldn't care where they'd been as long as they were clean.
Posts: 40 | From: I've lived all over the USA, but I hold true to my Michigan roots | Registered: Jun 2012  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Redskies
Scarleteen Volunteer
Member # 79774

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Redskies     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
(Wolverine, we tend to try to break down the stigma around STIs, and that includes addressing false ideas and stereotypes that people with STIs were/are "dirty" in any way, so we'd usually use language like "STI negative" or even "clear" rather than "clean".)

--------------------
The kyriarchy usually assumes that I am the kind of woman of whom it would approve. I have a peculiar kind of fun showing it just how much I am not.

Posts: 1786 | From: Europe | Registered: Sep 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Wolverine22
Activist
Member # 95968

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Wolverine22     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well then if I love someone enough that I want to sleep with them, then I don't care where they've been as long as they're faithful and they don't have any STD's. That better?
Posts: 40 | From: I've lived all over the USA, but I hold true to my Michigan roots | Registered: Jun 2012  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Redskies
Scarleteen Volunteer
Member # 79774

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Redskies     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes [Smile] I didn't mean to cause you any offence, or dictate how you express yourself, and I apologise if I did. And I think that what you're saying is a pretty sound and non-shamey attitude.

--------------------
The kyriarchy usually assumes that I am the kind of woman of whom it would approve. I have a peculiar kind of fun showing it just how much I am not.

Posts: 1786 | From: Europe | Registered: Sep 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Wolverine22
Activist
Member # 95968

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Wolverine22     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just an update for MusicNerd, I just got back from the store, and today's mission was to stock up on condoms!!!!! Now the next phase is to find someone to use them with...
Posts: 40 | From: I've lived all over the USA, but I hold true to my Michigan roots | Registered: Jun 2012  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
MusicNerd
Peer Ambassador
Member # 95998

Icon 1 posted      Profile for MusicNerd     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sorry to look at this so late, but YAY! Good for you, Wolverine!! You'll find someone, but at least you have protection first. [Smile]

--------------------
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." ~Dr. Seuss

Posts: 301 | From: a galaxy far, far away... | Registered: Jun 2012  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

   Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Get the Whole Story! Go Home to SCARLETEEN: Sex Ed for the Real World | Privacy Statement

Copyright 1998, 2014 Heather Corinna/Scarleteen
Scarleteen.com: Providing comprehensive sex education online to teens and young adults worldwide since 1998

Information on this site is provided for educational purposes. It is not meant to and cannot substitute for advice or care provided by an in-person medical professional. The information contained herein is not meant to be used to diagnose or treat a health problem or disease, or for prescribing any medication. You should always consult your own healthcare provider if you have a health problem or medical condition.

Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3