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I must have been 9 or 10 when I realized, for the first time, that I'm ugly. By the time I was 15, the realization had been strongly reinforced by negative feedback concerning my appearance and I had gone from being ugly to being repulsive. Now 20, I can't find a single positive thing to say about my appearance. And neither have many others, aside my girlfriend, no one has ever been attracted to me. And in the case of my girlfriend, she already loved my personality by the time she actually saw me.
I can tell what's wrong with every inch of my body. My head is an off size and shape, my face is ugly, my neck is short, my shoulders are incredibly broad, I have no breasts, I have fat arms, my fingers are short, I have a wide waist but very narrow hips, I have fat thighs, I have bulky knees, I have short legs, I have crooked short toes... and this is all on a general level. When I go out, let it be to school, shopping, groceries etc, I see that everyone around me is more attractive and it gets me down. I've gone as far as getting price quotes for surgeries I would love to have done, and overall it adds up to about 50 thousand dollars. I'd never follow through with surgery, but sometimes I feel so obsessed with my flawed body.
However, I'm sick of being so vain and so superficial. Why should I worry about my appearance so much it overwrites everything else. There's still homeless people out there, hungry children, cancer patients, war, environmental problems. How could my appearance be more important than those? How can I be so self conceited that I consider saving the money to fix at least something on my body with aesthetic surgery, when such money should rather go to something more important?
I have tried self help methods to better accept what I've been dealt with, but without any success. I've told myself to snap out of it and realize that my appearance is nothing in comparison to real problems.
How can I come to terms with my ugliness so that it will stop bothering me and I can focus on actual, real problems?
posted
Just like "beauty," "ugly" -- as a term, as an idea -- is arbitrary. To be clear, you may find you ugly: I may not. You may find a given person beautiful or attractive, while I do not. Which one of us is right? Well, neither or both, because there is no one standard for any of this stuff, it's all about individual aesthetics and perceptions.
So, I'm glad to talk with you about this so long as you can deal with my not framing the conversation as "coming to terms with your ugliness." This sounds much more to me like you trying to come to terms with your PERCEPTIONS when it comes to your appearance, and then working those out.
Okay?
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63426 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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I do realize that people find different things beautiful or ugly or anything in the world. The way my girlfriend put it was something along the lines that I'm like a Pug. They're not pretty in a conventional way, but some people still find them cute.
Regardless. I don't want my vanity to be my insanity. Whether it's a problem with perception or not, I'm sick of being so wrapped up in myself as if I were a big deal.
Posts: 236 | From: Europe | Registered: Oct 2009
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I have a pug, for the record. And she thinks she is GORGEOUS. We could learn a lot from dogs about body image, really: I find myself thinking that often.
One thing I want to start with is that -- and I say this as someone who not only has lived in the world for a long time, and does the kind of work I do here, but who also is a portrait photographer -- I find, overall, that what people look like to others, and how they/we are perceived by others, has a whole lot to do with what they project based on how they/we feel about themselves/ourselves.
I can't tell you how many subjects come into my studio with perceptions of themselves that seem very alien to me: like, what they describe is just not at all what I'm looking at or seeing.
I have short legs, too (I have short everything, really). I have big thighs, too. I have blocky knees, too. I have a very asymmetrical face myself. But I don't think of those things as ugly, not on my body, not on anyone else's, and I don't find they are often perceived that way by others, either. But I think my own perceptions have a lot to do with that.
If we walk around thinking ourselves ugly, I'd say it's pretty typical to find that other people will vibe out that perception and often take it on themselves. And that's the case whether we look like I do, you do, or like the people you find attractive do.
Of course, I also find that when we put a ton of stock into appearance and what we look like, that, all by itself, can come off as "ugly." Do you know what I mean?
It might help to know that studies done on people who get cosmetic surgery due to low self-esteem, in the long-term, don't find that surgery improved their esteem. In other words, that when the dust settled, rather than feeling all "Ah, all fixed! I'm gorgeous now," they then usually just found something ELSE they figured was the thing to fix, and for some people, this becomes endless. Endlessly expensive, endlessly risky to their health, and endlessly fruitless.
Fixing issues with our appearance rarely is about fixing our appearance, but about dealing with and working through those issues. And troubles with our appearance are also more often not about our appearance itself: in other words, we'd likely have those issues no matter how we looked. If you want fine examples of that, think about all the people who meet certain standards of becuaty in some or all ways, but still feel like crap about themselves.
Can we perhaps start with talking about how you feel about yourself as a WHOLE? In other words, appearance, but also ALL of who you are. Do you like you? Do you feel good about you?
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63426 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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Do I like myself depends vastly on the day. I never like my appearance. Infact, now that I reflect on it, I don't generally like myself. When I focus on me, I don't like it. When I don't focus on myself, I'm obviously not sacrificing me a thought, thus I can neither like nor dislike myself.
I don't feel good about myself, and that has bothered me for a good long while, but I only started paying attention to it a while ago when I realized that, despite having achieved all I had set to achieve so far in life, I don't feel accomplished, I don't feel proud. I always link a failure to all my achievements. Like graduating from high school-- but it took four years instead of three. Working abroad for two months-- but I quit and came home early because it was too much, while my friends managed to do the same job for six and twelve months. Being admitted to university-- but so did many others, and I had the lowest score.
As for surgery, I know it wouldn't be the answer for me, because I know I'm exactly the kind of person who, after having something "improved", finds something else that needs to be improved before they can find satisfaction in their appearance. It happened already. Before I always thought that if I didn't have acne, I'd be happy with my appearance. Now the acne is mostly gone, but I found new things to nitpick at.
Posts: 236 | From: Europe | Registered: Oct 2009
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So, my best advice to you would be to start working on what is likely the real root issue here, which is your self-esteem as a whole. If you don't feel good about you, don't like you, you're not likely to like how you look, either, and/or may overfocus on appearance.
I saw in another thread of yours you're going to start counseling, which is great. This stuff is absolutely, positively stuff you want to bring to the table.
It also sounds to me like you might be putting too much value in parts of you that a) aren't entirely in your control, but b) aren't so much who you just ARE, but what you do or what you look like. In other words, let's set aside what you look like, and also what you have or haven't done, or the way you have done things.
What about parts of you that are just who you are, no matter what? Like, your sense of humour or the way you laugh. Like how you feel and act when you are enjoying yourself with anything at all. Like, this little mark you have over here that no one else has. Like how you fill the hours on a Sunday, how you are when playing with a pet, what quirky things make you you. Things that aren't about you compared to anyone else, but are just about you. How about THOSE things?
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63426 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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I've been reading your posts but not posting until now. I totally agree with all the great feedback Heather has given you but I also would like to share some articles you may or may not be familiar with and probably would find informative.
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Quite honestly, Heather, they aren't really things that I pay much mind to and as I'm laying here in bed trying to reflect on "Me", I feel very alienated from myself. I don't really think I have much of a persona to me. I'm usually very disappointed in myself because my time management and organizing skills are awful. And I've had so many comments ranging from my voice being annoying, to being loud to having a horrible shrill giggle, I think I'd rather never open my mouth again. Try as I might I've never been one to succeed in school, my brain simply rejects knowledge, and it annoys me to no end because I'd much rather be booksmart and bright and have something intelligent to say, than being stupid like I am.
Rationally, I realize it is beyond ridiculous to bash oneself over this or the other, when it'd make so much more sense to try and empower oneself and accept oneself. But I can't seem to let it go, I always return to attacking myself. Even now, trying to sort it out rationally, all my positive attributes evade me. I just can't think of any, but rationally I know there MUST be at least one redeeming quality, else I would truly be friendless and definitely not in a relationship.
I've been a social outcast since third grade primary school, so there must also be some qualities to me that people in general simply can't stand, but I also don't know what those could be, since I don't find myself a mean spirited or introverted person who'd work really hard to repel people. I know that back when I was a kid it was because I was awkward looking, but I'd certainly hope it isn't as big a factor on this level of education. I try to ignore my appearance when I'm around people, but the "Wow, you look tired/ill/like you're having a rough day" comments get a little tiring. Regardless, I never reply impolitely, I much rather lie that I didn't sleep well or that I've been suffering from a bout of fever.
One thing I'm morbidy afraid of, in the what if scenario of my relationship falling through, is loneliness. That I will never find anyone who's willing to settle for me and I'm doomed to a lifetime of loneliness and will die without ever even having my first more-than-friends hug, let alone anything else.
I'll be seeing myself to the links now, thank you, Lena. (If I may call you that.)
Posts: 236 | From: Europe | Registered: Oct 2009
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Honestly, while I wouldn't suggest anyone courted this scenario on purpose, I have never learned so much about myself and who I am as I have during the times when I had little to nothing: no love relationships, no family, no job or great work or accomplishments, when I looked like holy hell, when I was struggling just to get a meal a day, what have you.
Like I said, not something I'd suggest doing on purpose, but while I understand being scared of "the worst" -- whatever that means for any of us, or whatever we imagine it to be -- I find that those are the times I have found out most who exactly I am and why I am of value and worth.
I think, if you can, it's really important to try and figure out who you are WITHOUT any accomplishments at all, and without any kind of romantic or sexual partnerships or the perceptions of those people. If you are just you, just being you, in this moment, without a sexual partner who finds you appealing, without anything to put on a list of achievements, who are you?
For instance, it seems clear reading your posts you've made at Scarleteen that you're someone who is introspective. That you're someone with some serious sensitivity. That you're someone with the bravery to voice things which are uncomfortable. These are all parts of your character, clearly, even if you are just sitting here, doing nothing, all by yourself.
Now, I can make that list not even having interacted with you much. I'll give you, it's a short one since we barely know one another, but might you be able to start with a place like those places, and see what else you can add to that list?
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63426 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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I also just realized one thing that -- it's a little cheesy, but still -- might help give you a starting place for just the basic "Who am I?" stuff is doing a Kiersey personality type evaluation.
Have you ever done one? If not, a lot of people find them very helpful with this sort of thing, and when trying to kind of suss out the basics of their personality. Now and then, I've found this helpful to me and in interrelating with others (I'm an ENFP, myself, and find that to be a very true evaluation.)
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63426 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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(Yes, you're welcome to call me Lena, Cian! I want to write more but must finish some projects and then go to work tomorrow but I will post again to you in the near future. And, like Heather said, we can definitely tell there are many really wonderful things about you just based on your posts here, which means there are *even more* great stuff about you in-person, too. )
Posts: 3318 | Registered: Jun 2003
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Hey Cian: I just wanted to check in and see how you're feeling about all of this.
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63426 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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When I try to reflect on who I am if you strip away everything and simply leave the core, I always wind up with the same conclusion: "I am nothing" I really can't seem to tag any qualities onto my character and essentially, me. Which, I realize, sounds very depressing. I could name a million and two things I'd like to be, such as less lazy and more productive, but alas, being lazy offers instant gratification while being productive requires an amount of effort put into it for it to be gratifying.
Well, I'm getting sidetracked on my thoughts again. I did the personality test, albeit having studied psychology I know that they're not hugely accurate, because they merely scratch the surface. I was a "Guardian", a self-sacrificing type of a person. I couldn't identify with it very well, because I most definitely don't feel selfless, and I sacrifice very little. I don't feel inclined to work a thankless job (despite the fact I'm currently working on a degree in a field that is very thankless..)
I try not to clutter my mind with too much introspection on a day-to-day basis, especially since that nasty nagging little voice in my head rarely has anything nice to say. Going out in public, especially since I always have to use public transport, is nerve wrecking. Rationally, I know no one could care less about me and the way I look and no one will remember me at the end of the day, but I still feel antsy being around people.
Lingerie shopping the other day was awful, since they only employ the most conventionally beautiful young women, I felt like I shouldn't be there buying lacy underthings that would probably been better looking on her than they'd ever be on me. And yes, I know, she probably wasn't judging me on any level and couldn't care less about my underwear purchase, but I just wanted to disappear.
And this is exactly what I meant in my opening of this topic. I don't want to be so wrapped up in my appearance that it affects me in such a way.
Posts: 236 | From: Europe | Registered: Oct 2009
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I'm finding your problems quite heart-breaking. I'm unfortunate enough to say I think in various points in my life I have related to some of your feelings.
I think you started this thread talking about your appearance but as you've later said, your own inclinations hugely exaggerate, or even completely manufacture what other people's thoughts about you may really be. The physical appearance thing is just one part of the overall picture.
I think your account of lingerie shopping shows you really understand this and that's something to give yourself great credit for.
This as a fundamental issue with the way you're thinking at the moment, which doesn't have instant fixes but there are so many things that can be good for you.
I've found that for me the culmination of small gradual steps, have been the most important. The aim of that being to get yourself in a helpful place...
Making decisions about your surroundings is something you can do without having to be instantly positive, you can do it with that aim in mind, but really getting yourself arround people who make you feel most positive, and taking as much control as you can of your life right now is something that will work towards achieving that.
If your girlfriend is someone in your life who is supportive and makes you feel comfortable, that's a really good start.
Making decisions to get away from really suppressive environments, and really thinking about where you can spend your time that will be most encouraging, planning your lifestyle for it...
I found therapy to be greatly helpful too.
I'm really glad you're doing everything you already are to work on these things for yourself, my best wishes.
I want to echo everything that Heather and now Jacob, too, have said to you here. I'm going to suggest a few additional things:
1. Getting involved: You yourself admit that being hard on yourself in this way is both very (painfully) self-focused as well as is superficial compared to other problems out there in the world. That's not to say that it's not important and it deserves to be remedied, absolutely! but it also could help to put those feels aside to focus more on others and connecting to them through empathy and action. You care a great deal for your girlfriend, so why not also extend that caring to those immediately around you? Whether it's joining a student group at your university or volunteering with another organization, focusing on other people. I believe that, as humans, it's our shared trials and tribulations that bond us together and help us understand others better. It also make celebrating individual successes even sweeter collectively!
2. Finding your nichι, your happy place, [insert term here]: I find that, regardless of how I am feeling beforehand, I find my mood and well-being really raised after a trip to the swimming pool. I don't love exercising and (really dislike cold water!) and sometimes find it hard to motivate myself to go but I'm always glad when I do. I like swimming for many reasons: I like the ritual of suiting up, grabbing my flippers, greeting the lifeguards, sliding in the cold pool, and thinking while swimming laps. I love the hot shower afterwards, being in the locker room with others who also just swam, and the place I go to now even has a sauna and a steam bath! And I like how I feel afterwards even if it's tired because the sore muscles are part of the experience and a sign that I am working hard. To me, swimming feels like a superpower in a way, like flying but real, or a way for us to be a bit like fish.It is one of those things in life that I do extremely well: I've taught swimming before and still attend adult classes and workshops when possible. I will never be a fast swimmer and I can think of some setbacks but it's really a wonderful thing I can do for myself.
I hope you, too, can find yourself feeling that good about an activity in your life that you do just for *you*. You may find it's a few things, it may be something you will first discover later, but such simple passions are a really positive way to connecting to yourself and being self-focused in a really good way!
As Jacob mentioned, it's a long and ongoing process. I think therapy will help a great deal but I also know that changing your patterns of thinking will take a lot of work. However, you certainly have it in you. Most people go through periods in life where they don't feel so good about themselves or certain parts of themselves; however, I think it's not a time to despair but a message to get moving and just that much closer to feeling better! Good luck on your journey. Posts: 3318 | Registered: Jun 2003
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I've been struggling with self-help for years now, let it be the post-its taped to the corner of the mirror, or (trying) to change my thought pattern when I notice I'm slipping down the gutter, which never worked anyhow because it only resulted in a more severe self-attack. And actually a recent study showed that self-help is only truly helpful for people who already have a good sense of self-worth, while a person with low or no self-worth would only find themselves struggling with their core beliefs arguing loudly against the new ideas. Fake it 'til you make it just doesn't work for people with low self-esteem. So yes, maybe I would benefit from therapy. Or counseling, rather, I don't think they call it therapy here unless it's with a psychiatrist.
Thank you for your input, Jacob.
Hi again, Lena. Your advice is great, but at the same it doesn't really feel "me". I'm not much a people person, not after I grew tired of being everyone's wastebasket in the sense that everyone would come to me with their problems but no one would ever listen if I wanted to talk about something that was hard for me. A case in point was this one girl who wanted to talk to me about how she felt her breasts were too small (she's two cups bigger than yours truly), so I let her talk, and told her there is nothing wrong with her chest. When she finally asked me how I'm doing, I told her my parents divorced recently. She replied with an "Oh," and after a short pause went back to talking about her breasts without any further acknowledgement of my situation.
I still do my best to be helpful in my daily life, holding doors open, giving my seat to elderly, disabled or pregnant people in the bus, and such small little gestures. I also participated in a Christmas Cards campaign for lonely people-- which is where you write a Christmas card, bring it to a store that's involved in the campaign and they'll send it to someone who's alone during the holidays. It made me feel a bit better, but it was a short lived joy. But to join and be an active member of an organization or the like, I just don't feel comfortable with the idea. I guess I'm just not a team player.
My happy place, haha, I wonder where it is and how do I get there. I'm the most comfortable when I'm at home, but I'm a little young to become a recluse. I enjoyed going swimming with my grandma when I still lived back at home; we went very early in the morning, which to me was a horror because I love to sleep in, but my grandma is a morning person AND, most importantly to me, there were no young people at the pool at such hours, only other grannies, and old people aren't very judgmental of appearances. (And I must admit, the "Oh remember, Gertrude, we used to be that skinny too." were rather amusing) But now I wouldn't imagine going, as in this new city youth makes up 25% of the population and the pool is right next to my university, so I imagine it's filled with people my age and that's a horrifying thought. But swimming aside, as I don't think it's my thing.. we come to the problem that I don't really have "my thing", I am not good at anything, I don't particularly enjoy anything. I guess it's a work in process, maybe I'll find something later.
I doubt I'll ever find peace of mind in my appearance, but perhaps I'd just have to focus on accepting that I look hideous and no, I will never be attractive to anyone and won't be getting the things I aspired for and just need change my focus. Forget marriage, forget family, focus on.. I don't know, career as a cleaning lady or some other minimum wage job, since my grades aren't good enough for anything else.
Posts: 236 | From: Europe | Registered: Oct 2009
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I hope it's okay for me to be frank here, and that you can hear what I'm about to say knowing it's coming from a place of earnestly wanting to help.
While I recognize, obviously, you're feeling very negative about all of this, it's really hard for me, personally, to help when you're SO negative. In other words, when you say things like, "perhaps I'd just have to focus on accepting that I look hideous and no, I will never be attractive to anyone and won't be getting the things I aspired for and just need change my focus. Forget marriage, forget family, focus on.. I don't know, career as a cleaning lady or some other minimum wage job, since my grades aren't good enough for anything else. "
Statements like that just sound to me like you really don't want to try and change anything or work through this, even though my feeling is that you DO, or else you wouldn't have asked for help. I totally get being in a pity-party place, we all go there now and again (just had my own for a day a couple weeks ago, actually). However, if and when we're asking for help, if we want help, we'll need to step out of a defeatist place.
I think you also need to recognize that often to forge big changes in our lives, we will generally need to step outside of our comfort zones. In other words, you may need to try again to reach out to other people and get more involved with others per volunteer orgs and the like: you may need to try and learn to be more of a team player. You may need to be willing to try going swimming in places that do have a mixed-age group. I know stepping outside of those zones can be scary and intimidating, for sure, but at the same time, if staying stuck in them clearly isn't working for us, we've got to recognize that, and figure it's always worth a shot. Know what I mean?
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63426 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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quote:I doubt I'll ever find peace of mind in my appearance, but perhaps I'd just have to focus on accepting that I look hideous
I'm going to quote what you said earlier about the shop worker:
"I know, she probably wasn't judging me on any level and couldn't care less about my underwear purchase"
You're aware of how reality can be very different from our exagerations. When you say you look good or bad, you're not talking about something concrete, but just how you see yourself. So acceptance doesn't make sense here.
Rather than allowing yourself to say you are UNacceptable, and confirming that by saying you should accept it; running in circles, it's more helpful to identify that first damnation as the problem. This isn't about your looks, or what people think of you, but 100% about your self-image.
I just want to crowbar the two things apart, your problems do not root from how you look but how you think you look. They're very different.
I know what it is like to doubt your ability to recover, but I'm learning that it's false to assume that such a doubt means anything. There is no knowing; the glass will always be just as empty as it is full, we can't base our decisions on it. What we can base it on is what gives us the best chance, logically; what puts us in a good position to recover. Which may, as heather says, require your stepping out of your comfort zone.
quote:[I] won't be getting the things I aspired for and just need change my focus. Forget marriage, forget family, focus on.. I don't know, career as a cleaning lady or some other minimum wage job, since my grades aren't good enough for anything else.
Your appearance should never stop you getting jobs, being physically attractive to people, or having a family... but you seem to be predicting it will. That catastrophising or defeatism is not a truthful commentary, but the problem itself, and a good place to place your efforts for reworking that.
It's really cool that you've tried self-help material, it is a positive effort worth feeling good about, it can be good. But also as you've said, for you it has had it's drawbacks. Some writers unfortunately are much worse than others, and filtering it on our own can be problematic when negative thinking is already framing the reading.
I think working with a counselor/therapist however is far more effective, especially when you get the right one. A counsellor will be much better at focussing the sessions, which will make it much easier to progress.
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I think I understand, and rationally see that what you say is without a doubt true and reasonable. I've just been stuck in this rut for over half of my life now, and while I know very well it isn't really working for me, I presume I cling to it for the sake of familiarity and in that, a (perhaps false) sense of security.
But for me, leaving the house alone is stepping out of my comfort zone and is becoming more of a struggle with each passing week. Just getting on that bus to university is mortifying. I know in a logical sense that no one cares, but I am not 100% a logical, reasonable, rational person. I fear judgment from people I know are unlikely to judge me and even if they did would not say it outloud, but knowing that is still not enough to put me at ease, I continue to have completely irrational fears and concerns.
I think I got sidetracked again, I've always been a little out of focus.
I also don't mean to be stubborn, my girlfriend always complains about that and I've tried really hard to become less stubborn but with little success. Come to think of it I feel awfully broken, clinging onto my misery when I'd be better off letting it go and being horribly stubborn about it.
Posts: 236 | From: Europe | Registered: Oct 2009
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Are you going ahead and starting that counseling soon, Cian? Because it sounds to me like it's clearly important you do.
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63426 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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I haven't gotten around to it, I must admit, and now the office is closed for the winter vacation, so next time I'll be able to phone them will be mid-January.
I also swear I'm not this crazy all the time. Or I certainly hope I'm not.
Posts: 236 | From: Europe | Registered: Oct 2009
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I'm not a big fan of the term crazy, period: I find it ableist.
There's also nothing anyone has to apologize for because they're having a hard time with something.
But clearly, you are having a hard time, including now mentioning what sounds like developing agoraphobia. So, I'd simply make a serious point to yourself of calling that office the second they are open and taking that proactive step to making improvements in your life for yourself.
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63426 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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I just feel silly for taking up people's time and I feel selfish for whining about my oh-how-horrible hardships which, on a larger scale, really are nothing. Like a child crying over a scraped knee.
I had to look up agoraphobia online, which lead me to look further into social anxiety, which hits home more than agoraphobia does. In any case, self diagnosis is something one shouldn't do, and I would benefit from professional help.
I'm sorry I keep doing things that frustrate you, Heather. I have no personal intetion to step on everyone's toes.
Posts: 236 | From: Europe | Registered: Oct 2009
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You know, it happens when you're helping people. Seriously. No big.
One person's issues or problems can't be compared to someone else's. You're having a hard time. That's where you're at right now and that's what's relevant.
But the tricky parts comes when you're asking how to change things, but shoot pretty much every suggestion down. because what that tends to tell someone in a helping position is either a) you're not ready to change yet, b) you don't want to or c) you don't want to make the effort to try and change the situation.
Now, if you really don't want to or don't feel ready, that's okay. Sometimes we're in that spot. But when we are, that's when we have to recognize no one else is going to be able to hep us, either. Do you know what I mean?
I know some of the things we suggested make you uncomfortable or may be uncomfortable, but that's how change goes: even positive change is rarely comfortable.
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63426 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63426 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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posted
Just a small update. I've been feeling low the whole while between posts, which I guess could be attributed to the season. I live up north, we get very little daylight, and I'm thinking that may be one factor in my low mood. It's very typical for people over here, lucky we're already getting 6 hours of daylight.
Anyhow. Tomorrow I'm going to be hitting the gym and pool with a friend. I'm still contemplating whether I want to swim, probably not, but it's help already someone is willing to go with me. My friend won't be swimming either, so it won't be that big a loss.
I finally managed to call up the mental health department of my school. I have my first counseling session in February. I'm thinking about writing down the things that bother me, when they bother me. I've always felt it difficult to talk about problems that are not affecting me at the specific time.
Babysteps, babysteps.
Posts: 236 | From: Europe | Registered: Oct 2009
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And I hear you: in Seattle, we deal with the lack of light as well, and it can be really rough.
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63426 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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Can't say the gym and pool was much of a success. In the gym I felt out of place and eventually became distracted by the fact I look horrible, and there was no way to escape it seeing as the gym is mirrored in all sides.
Pool wasn't as bad in the sense that I couldn't see myself, but instead I could see an endless flood of beautiful women of all ages. I wonder if I can ever be free of my breast envy.
I've been a little weepy ever since I got home.
Posts: 236 | From: Europe | Registered: Oct 2009
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I'm glad you tried even if it didn't turn out as you may have wished. (Ugh, I'd be wary of a gym with mirrors, too; fortunately, mine has big windows and flat screen TVs, hmm...) The ironic thing about pools is that I think people either generally are too self-conscious to look at others or just don't care to look so while it's too bad you were feeling down on yourself, I'm sure others weren't thinking anything bad about you. That said, I don't think I've ever seen "an endless flood of women of all ages" at the many pools I've been to (I guess I'm too busy thinking about the hot shower when I'm swimming or hoping people didn't drown when I was teaching), so it sounds like you went to a pretty snazzy place! But I'm sure you'll find other places that are better, more comfortable matches for you.
I wish you luck with your first counseling session: good for you for trying it out! Posts: 3318 | Registered: Jun 2003
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The thing is I know that no one is looking at me in the gym and pool, but I just can't shed the feeling. Especially when there's a multitude of people around, none of them repulsive. I can't really afford a better match of a gym for me, it's the cheapest I could find. I can afford to go twice a month without straining my pennies all too much. Which, I understand, is a priviledge as is. Ah well, I should be focusing on circuit training and cardio anyway, heh.
Today I actually had a good experience. With the temperatures luckily climbing up enough that I don't need to bundle up in everything unattractive, but wear my nicer jacket, and managing to do my eye makeup so that I didn't even mind the circles I couldn't hide, I actually felt quite good going to town to buy some crafts supplies. So, it is plausible. I can be in the public and not wish I had stayed home with the lights off and a bag over my head.
So there's my little update. Back to studying language acquisition and writing a looong, loooong study report. Sigh.
Posts: 236 | From: Europe | Registered: Oct 2009
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You say none of them were "repulsive." What would have made them so if there had been someone there who you found to be so?
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63426 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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To be honest, Heather, it's a word I've spared exclusively for myself. I have never seen anyone else who'd be repulsive, hence why it is hard for me to relate to people. None of them are like me. I do realize I constantly word myself very badly. I can't even express myself properly. Pardon.
Should I cease to post such frequent updates here on Scarleteen? I don't want to waste anyone's time they could use helping others, nor do I want to be a nuisance. I can look for some other forum where I can be completely anonymous (it's a little embarassing if someone I know reads these things), it is no problem.
Posts: 236 | From: Europe | Registered: Oct 2009
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So, only you're repulsive? That's quite a dubious distinction!
How is no one else in the world like you?
And you most certainly can keep posting here. I didn't ask that question to be snarky, I asked it in earnest to see if that'd give you or I any more information about your self-image. We're glad to have you: you're not a nuisance.
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63426 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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Cian, I'm pretty sure no one thinks you word yourself "badly". I've read this entire thread and it seems that the contrary is true. I'm not speaking for them but from what I've seen, the founder and volunteers on this site simply want to be proactive about the way things are stated (example: we can use ableist language without knowing we do and when there's a correction, it's simply for our own education) and also are trying to push us (the askers) by questioning our posts.
Online posts are strange. We can't see your expressions nor can we hear your voice so asking for more information or correcting may come off more blunt in print.
As a fellow poster, I encourage you to continue writing here because I think great things can come from this site.
A gym filled with mirrors would make me weepy too. It's difficult enough to go as it is.
posted
Cian, you are not repulsive or unacceptable, I know those feelings can be hard to shake, but I'm sure your body's wonderful the way it is. I've struggled with my self image for years but I'm starting to see that there's nothing wrong with my body and it's others' attitudes that need to change. I think it becomes a lot harder to achieve your full potential when you feel down about yourself, you matter so please treat yourself with kindness, you don't have to volunteer every spare minute of your time to help others to do good in the world and to be worthy of love and esteem.
-------------------- Always knock before entering my room when I am in there alone, as I may be doing all sorts of wonderfully thrilling things that I'd rather you didn't see. Posts: 839 | From: UK | Registered: Dec 2008
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Heather, I feel people have a hard time understanding just how I feel and why I feel that way because no one looks as bad as I do. In general I do not tag negative definitions to people I see around me, I'd feel rude if I did, whereas with myself I don't mind so much. And since I have been putting myself down for a decade now, half of my life that is, it's a routine really.
Thank you for your input, Bonnie.N.Clyde. I get rather anxious and fussy with my writing, especially in English as it's my second language rather than native, and I worry I get misunderstood because of failing to express myself.
Thanks Jill. I agree that it is without a doubt hard to reach one's full potential if they're not feeling 100%, which is one of the reasons why I'd like to improve on this body anxiety. Or not so much my body, mostly my face.
I have my counseling this week. I went swimming back at my home town which was a whole lot less nerve wracking. Swimming with the grannies is a lot more comfortable for me as opposed to a pool with a whole scale of ages. I try to focus on what I'm doing, but whenever I pass face to face or have a stretch at the end of the pool to avoid cramping I can't help the thought "they think I look ugly" burying itself in the back of my skull. It's, above all, annoying.
Posts: 236 | From: Europe | Registered: Oct 2009
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Cian, you are quite welcome. Keep these updates coming. It's cool that you have counseling this week. That's a good step. I know from my own experience that just having a place to vent and be able to converse with my therapist was really helpful.. it just felt good. Let us know how everything goes!
-------------------- - "And when everyone is super, no one will be."
-Syndrome, "THE INCREDIBLES" Posts: 116 | From: Olympia, WA | Registered: May 2007
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So I went to counseling today and my psychologist seems nice enough, and I'm probably mature enough that I don't feel like I have to keep secrets-- it's not very helpful if I do. She also referred me to a study psychologist who can aide me in getting a better grasp of my school work.. she just forgot to give me her contact number, oh no, haha! I just realized.
I felt a little silly saying that I wanted to focus on my self image problems, when I realized I had clusters of BIGGER problems in the background. And I cried a little. It's so embarrassing, I'm such a crybaby.
Posts: 236 | From: Europe | Registered: Oct 2009
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Thank you for your updates: I'm so glad you're trying out different exercise routines and it sounds like you're finding stuff that works for you.
Major props for going to see the psychologist today! I know that's something you had mixed feelings about for awhile but it sounds like you are being honest and open and ready for it, which is great. And crying is natural! I think it's a big, positive step for you to realize that there are other underlying issues (that are perhaps manifesting themselves or that you've focused on in the form of body image?) I can understand how it can be hard to address that but it sounds like you've been doing it. My fingers are crossed that this continues to be a positive, if at times emotionally hard, experience for you.
Can you call the first psychologist's office to get the number for the study psychologist?
Posts: 3318 | Registered: Jun 2003
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I was called in today because my psychologist managed to fit me in a cancelled appointment. After filling a bunch of papers and discussing the points, she suggested that I may have depression. (I scored 22 on the test, 17 is the limit for moderate depression) She suggested medication, but I was against that. I don't feel like I'd be so deep in the swamp that I'd need to be doped up to scramble out off it. I'm not sad every day, and it's rarely so overpowering that I don't get out off bed.
And I completely forgot the study psychologist again. But I was also suggested that I'd inform my teachers whom I have late assingments for that I am suffering from depression, so they know where we stand.
I don't know. I hate being part of the "young people are depressed" statistic.
Posts: 236 | From: Europe | Registered: Oct 2009
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posted
I'm sure you're part of a lot of statistics, though: we all are. You know?
Was your psychologist supportive about you declining medication? Did she talk to you about other ways you can manage your depression?
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63426 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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It's not exactly the kind of statistic I'd like to be part of. Rather "youth is happy" or at least "youth is hopeful".
Yes, she didn't really push it on me, just suggested that if I feel I can't deal with it and it's too overpowering, I should know that medicine is available. She could probably read my "oh I don't know about that" face, since she then added that it may feel distant to me since I haven't considered myself depressed and said that it's fine that I want to deal with it by talking things through rather than medicine. (Also scared of side effects, especially the negative effect on sexual desire. I already have a significantly reduced "appetite" and I don't want it to get any worse.)
It feels silly to think I'm clinically depressed on a perfectly fine day. But I'm not letting the sunny day syndrome fool me, I know that overall, my mood has been low compared to usual.
Posts: 236 | From: Europe | Registered: Oct 2009
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Well, I don't think I care to be part of the statistics of people who have been assaulted, abused, homeless, poor, disabled or any number of things. But alas, I am. Not much that can be done about that: we are who we are, and things that happen to us happen to us.
Just so you know, not all psychotropic medications carry sexual side effects or have them in all people. And some medications don't carry it at all, or only present that side effect in a few users. To boot, depression is one of the biggest offenders with decreased libido, so if a med does help with your depression, you may instead see improvements with medication.
Mind, I still think everyone gets to make their own choices about medication and there is never any one right one, but like any choice, we'd always want that to be an informed one.
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63426 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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But see, my depression is self inflicted. I've always been the kind of "manage alone" person, and to know I have failed to manage alone and I should've tried harder and done more, it's upsetting. You may have been a victim of many unfortunate things, and it is without a doubt horrible, but I did this to myself. I was not assaulted or abused, I let myself down. It just adds insult to the injury for me that I couldn't even take proper care of myself.
And yes, I do know not everyone experiences the side effects. Regardless, I am not comfortable going on medication, I try to avoid unnecessary medication as much as possible. Over here, everything is treated by medicine nowadays, even things that may have an alternative solution. My worry for my sexual desire, which I have very little off to begin with, is hardly the solid base of not wanting medication. It was a concern I have, but not one I base my decision upon. I'm sorry if I made it sound that way and if I keep coming off as uninformed or ignorant. I really try not to. Of course it may well be true that I am uninformed and ignorant, for all I know, I might be false in considering myself clever.
Posts: 236 | From: Europe | Registered: Oct 2009
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If you have clinical depression, you can be quite sure it's not self-inflicted.
You understand that there are two types of depression,, yes? Clinical and situational? And that sometimes they overlap?
You also understand that a person does not have control -- or at least certainly only limited control -- over their biochemistry?
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63426 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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Yes, yes, yes and yes. Actually now that I think about it, my depression.. well it feels weird to say that.. is probably more so situational than clinical. In any case, I know it's self inflicted. I get myself down, how could that not be self inflicted?
Anyhow, now I just feel plain silly, so I'll be out for the night before I make a complete butt of myself. I'm such an idiot, haha. I'll try to smart up so you won't have to go down to basics with me.
Posts: 236 | From: Europe | Registered: Oct 2009
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quote: I get myself down, how could that not be self inflicted?
I don't think you're being a butt or an idiot, but I think you may be oversimplifying how depression works. If you were in complete control of your depression, and don't want to be depressed any more, then why couldn't you just stop being depressed by deciding to do so?
I certainly think questions like this are profoundly good ones to discuss with your therapist, because the question itself, or the way you're presenting your depression like this itself, can actually be pretty illuminating.
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63426 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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I've been keeping a diary of my "ugly" days, days that I feel I ought to stay at home and not show myself in public that is. (I usually go to school anyway because it's my responsibility) I'm guessing most people will occasionally have "ugly" or "fat" or "bad hair" days, even with a healthy and good body image. Since I don't see my counselor until next month, I was just wondering how frequent these days would normally be?
In my case, it's usually every second/every third day or two consecutive days before a few days break. It sounds a bit much and looks even worse on paper.
On a more positive note I do have better days when I feel, not necessarily pretty, but alright looking.
Posts: 236 | From: Europe | Registered: Oct 2009
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Are you keeping a diary also of your POSITIVE days?
I don't think we can say how often is "average" per number of days for people to have negative body image. I've never seen any studies on that done, but probably in part because defining those terms would be awfully tricky.
I do think it's beyond clear you have a very negative self-image: obviously you know that, and I'd agree. And I do think it's safe to say that someone really focusing this much ON that negative image as much as you seem to be strikes me as something you do often, certainly more often than is likely to help you really improve that self-image. It may even be that these thoughts are obsessive, but that's something likely best assessed by your counselor.
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63426 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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