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Author Topic: more abortion "facts"
twentysix
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http://www.abort73.com/

it seems to me that a lot of antichoice organizations focus soley on numerical abortion statistics rather than the real reason women chose to terminate their pregnancies.

after sitting in my religious ethics class today, and listening to a dozen presentations about how abortion is murder, i'm sick and tired of being told that my opinion is immoral. it seems as though scarleteen is one of a few places i can voice my opinion without being bashed. blargh.

i wish this website would compare this:

* In 2000 (the most recent year for which data are available), 11 women died as a result of complications from known legal induced abortion (CDC).

* The number of deaths attributable to legal induced abortion was highest before the 1980s (CDC).

* In 1972 (the year before abortion was federally legalized), a total of 24 women died from causes known to be associated with legal abortions, and 39 died as a result of known illegal abortions (CDC).

to how many women have suffered because they've been forced to carry their child to term.

[ 04-11-2006, 10:31 PM: Message edited by: twentysix ]

Posts: 86 | From: california | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Irm
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Wow. This part REALLY bothers me:

quote:
The second threat to women comes from within the abortion industry itself, from abortion providers who have private and intimate access to young women, and know that these women are desperate to avoid drawing attention to their abortion. If women in such circumstances are sexually assaulted or mistreated, their only two options are to report the abuse (thereby making their abortion and sexual activity known) or keep quiet and try to move on with their life. Which course do you think most women choose?

Lest you think such a suggestion is wildly speculative, we invite you to the brutal and disturbing evidence contained in Lime 5. Lime 5 is a gritty exposé of the abortion industry, documenting case after case of women who have been sexually assaulted by the men performing their abortion. Of course, can we really be surprised by the fact that many of the doctors who have no moral qualms with suctioning tiny, unborn human beings into pieces would have no moral qualms about raping their patients? It is a simple reality that the moral character of a man in one realm of life will eventually leak out into all realms.

Even if a lot of the information spouted from anti-choice fronts is false, manipulated, et cetera, they are accomplishing their goal nevertheless: making abortion into a muddled, frightening path with too many rumours and doubts, scaring young women away from abortions as well as birth control, leaving them no option but to dutifully comply with the CR-front view of what should happen to their bodies.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of sites out there of this one's like--some of them absolutely ridiculous and blatantly filled with lies. A prime example is **** (rather not post the link--it's a pretty nasty site; the kind that uses graphic photos to back up their views), where you see misguiding information like:

quote:
"The reality is condoms fail one third of the time, either by flaws, breaking or deterioration. This isn’t an opinion, it is a fact - the result of a scientific study reported in the Journal of the American Medical Association, February, 1987. Safe sex teachers won’t tell you that!"
and

quote:
"All condoms have flaws or holes. These aren’t poked into them intentionally by someone. They occur naturally in all latex condoms.
The average hole size is 5 microns. A sperm is only 2.5 microns. An HIV virus that causes AIDS is only .1 micron. ... In one test, 33% (1/3) of the latex condoms leaked HIV sized particles!"

And geezus, stuff like this...?

quote:
"In varying degree, the methods that prevent implantation, and therefore kill a baby at one week of life, include the intrauterine device (IUD), Norplant, Depo Provera, Progesterone Only pills, low-dose contraceptive combination pills, and the morning-after pills. ... These are micro-abortions."
I really don't understand how they can go around hailing to high heaven that abortion is WRONG WRONG WRONG, but then also attacking the preventative measures. Not all sites like these are so extreme as to say that condoms are wrong/useless, but mostly all of them accuse hormonal methods of being abortions, and say that EC definately is even if you can debate the others, etc. Again, just... slimming it down, pushing in the walls, so that your only option is eventually just to either get pregnant and suffer through it unwillingly OR finally comply with their religious beliefs and wait till marriage. (Which isn't even to say that marriage automatically equates to a readiness for children, or vica versa, but that's a topic for me to get p*ssed about another day.)

I wish I could wave a magic wand and shut sites like that the heck DOWN. Looking at how overwhelmingly many uneducated, young girls come to Scarleteen everyday with pregnancy scares... I'd hate to think what would happen if google brought them to one of these sites before Scarleteen, and THAT was where they found their solutions. Of course, sadly, that probably DOES happen.

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JamsessionVT
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You know, I am doing a huge paper on whether a woman's right to an abortion is constitutionally supported, and I can tell you, I've come across much worse stuff.

The problem I've found with doing research on this is that there are so many inconsistencies and stipulations between the two sides, it's a nightmare to sort through the information and try to decipher what's true and what's a load of ballocks.

And, to boot, very few independent doctors who perform abortions are willing to answer questions. I tallied how many docs I've called in the past three weeks, and only 1 has been willing to talk to me. 1 out of 14. That's a lot of doctors.

I've found with a lot of pro-life sources (which I think is a ridiculous term b/c it encourages a reader/viewer to believe that a person who calls themself "pro-life" is somehow saintly or a better person than someone who is "pro-choice") that the information they are providing is a very, very stretched version of the truth, if even that. And it plays a lot on sympathy: it's pretty easy to hook someone if you play off emotions, which is partially why the pro-life/anti-choice movement has been gathering more strength.

quote:
One of the favorite mantras of abortion advocates around the country is "Every Child a Wanted Child". It sounds noble enough, until you realize what their solution to unwantedness is. If a child isn't wanted, they argue, then it shouldn't be born. The problem, of course, is that the child is already conceived, and the only way to keep said child from being born is to kill it. How do they justify such violence? Often by arguing that it is better for the child to be dead than for the child to be unwanted.
Unfortunately, a lot of this stuff if based on ethics. And it is almost impossible to come to any reasonable decision based on ethics. Which is why the constitutionality should (at least I think) be taken into greater consideration...

anywho, I could go on forever about this, but I've got to run some errands...

--------------------
Abbie
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Heather
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(Hey Jamsession: toss me an email about what specifically you need for this paper, would you? if you do, I'd be happy to ask a favor of one of my contacts at the ACLU who could easily answer the legal aspect of the questions you've got for you, from a strictly legal perspective.)

--------------------
Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
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Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Heather
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quote:
In 2000 (the most recent year for which data are available), 11 women died as a result of complications from known legal induced abortion (CDC).

* The number of deaths attributable to legal induced abortion was highest before the 1980s (CDC).

* In 1972 (the year before abortion was federally legalized), a total of 24 women died from causes known to be associated with legal abortions, and 39 died as a result of known illegal abortions (CDC).

What's also important is the fact that globally, MILLIONS of women die from CHILDBIRTH, and women have ALWAYS done so. Last I checked, about one woman worldwide every MINUTE did so. Millions of women sustain long and short-term health problems from pregnancy and childbirth.

Basing laws and policies -- even opinions -- about abortion on death rates from abortion is just plain silly, because reproduction, as a whole, is dangerous business: far more women will always die from childbirth (for a lot of reasons, and this is greatly exascerbated by poverty) than from abortion, especially early, safe, legal abortion.

I don't imagine of us would say that even given how many women die from pregnancy and childbirth that's a sound reason to ban women from becoming pregnant and/or birthing.

--------------------
Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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ax50607
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I do not think any of those statistics are valid reasons to be against abortion. And I also agree that it is ridiculous to be against both abortion and safe-sex measures. Anyone against abortion ought to be handing out condoms, not criticising them.
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origami_jane
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Well, that's because it's not only about getting rid of abortion. It's about controlling women by linking sex to reproduction. Think about all the things coming under criticism: the Pill, Plan B, abortion, even dildos and vibrators! Condoms are never the subject of controversy.

The whole system is biased against women, and I'll stop my ranting there.

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kitka
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... and all this b.s. is being foisted on teenagers and their parents by the federal government's abstinence programs, which contradict medical findings in VERY large meaure, including information on the CDC website.

http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2005/04/27/birth_control/index.html

A Salon article from last April by Gretchen Cook, on the paradox that social conservatism creates over BC and reproductive rights.

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