Donate Now
We've Moved! Check out our new boards.
  New Poll  
my profile | directory login | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Scarleteen Boards: 2000 - 2014 (Archive) » SCARLETEEN CENTRAL » Sexual Ethics and Politics » "There is always adoption"

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: "There is always adoption"
Member # 27418

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Irm     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Obviously, the topic of abortion is pretty unavoidable lately, what with the SD ruling. And one thing that frustrates me immensely when I get reeled into these discussions is the argument that "there is always adoption".

There is always adoption? A disccusion I had today:

"I just think that it needs to be a woman's choice what she puts her body through."
"Well... personally, I don't believe in abortion. I don't believe in killing babies."
(I never know what to say when I get that. Why is it that when you say 'abortion', people immediately jump to the rare and horrible partial-birth abortions [aren't they banned now?] in which a fully formed baby is terminated in the third trisemester?)
"Well... it's not a baby." Before I could elaborate in that I was referring to first trisemester abortions, she said--
"Well I believe it's a baby the moment that the sperm and the egg meet. Because I mean... then the whole person is already determined there. I mean, it's sex is even decided. Chromosomes and stuff. So I don't see why you should have to murder that person, because there is always adoption."
"Woah woah... Always adoption? You're skipping over an important middle step there: the pregnancy. Pregnancy, birth, AND the trauma of giving up a child are all very significant things. Don't you think the woman should choose if she wants to go through those?"
"Well after she gives birth to it, it can go to foster care and stuff, and-"
"You're still skipping straight to the baby and completely ignoring the woman. She IS effected in all this."
She shrugs dismissively. "I don't think the baby should have to die just because the mother makes a bad choice, when she can just give it to adoption. Gay parents can adopt it, because they need to adopt to have children, so then you're helping people and it serves another social issue. See?"

Well first of all, that gay couples comment floored me. Secondly, what do you SAY when that "There is always adoption" line comes up? It's as though there is this odd wall there that is completely oblivious to nine whole months of social stigma, life interference, physical/emotional changes, medical expenses, etc., not to mention the pain and stress and danger of birth, as well as the severe emotional experience of making the decision to give up a child, etc. It's a statement that just completely makes the woman dissapear from the equation.

Again, what do you SAY when that comes up? Of course adoption is a respectable option that women can take if that is right for them, but it's not an argument for the illegalization of abortion, imo.

[ 03-08-2006, 01:15 PM: Message edited by: RedGoddess ]

Posts: 213 | From: Private | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Executive Director & Founder
Member # 3

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Heather     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
First of all, "partial-birth" is a term coined by the religious right and its allies. There never did, nor does there exist now, an ACTUAL procedure of that name or the usual description.

(Late-term abortions have never been legal as elective procedures in the U.S., anyway, save to save the life of the mother, or when the fetus is already stillborn or will not survive a birth, etc. The "ban" on such was a totally purposeful poltical maneuver, knowing the general public is totally uneducated on abortion, which primarily has resulted in women who need D&C's late-term because of serious emergencies -- such as to avoid having to got through labor to deliver a knowingly dead infant -- in a serious pickle, because surprise: our administration didn't know squat about actual procedures either and, in fact, ignored the testimony of doctors who did in this case. It's very interesting testimony if you want to do a Google search.)

We have another post discussing this matter from a little while back if you're curious: a simple search should pull it up.

I only have a minute, but yes: adoption as an option does not negate abortion as an option. Not all women will want to remain pregnant: and that isn't just about parenting. Pregnancy alone is a HUGE commitment per having a healthy child, and it is not something all women are able to do or want to do, period.

Plus, every signle year, tens of thousands -- sometimes more -- of children go unadopted. Tens of thousands remain in the foster care system, often shuttled place to place -- and plenty of foster homes are abusive -- their whole childhood and teen years. Anyone who sees foster care as a fine option, or suggests it flippantly, is in no way educated on the realities of foster care, and isn't exactly making a strong case for their concern of the welfare of children.

"Gay parents can adopt it, because they need to adopt to have children, so then you're helping people and it serves another social issue. See?"

Honestly, that's just effin' silly and ignorant per the reality of queer rights (and wants) in this culture. First of all, there are still few avenues where homosexual couples are even ALLOWED to adopt. And for lesbian couples, insemination is often preferred over adoption, in part because of the lack of ability TO adopt. Moreover, lots of queer couples, just like many hetero couples, do not want to parent at all.

"I believe it's a baby the moment that the sperm and the egg meet. Because I mean... then the whole person is already determined there. "

Actually, no, it very much is not. Again: this is ignorance easily taken care of by even one good book on embryonic development.

And if a person consides that to be the case, again, they're overlooking the fact that sperm and eggs "meet" all the time, and many, many of those times -- more times than not, actually -- do NOT result in a pregnancy, by no other hand than Mama Nature.

Truthfully, I think the best response to someone like this is simply, "Well then, if you ever find yourself with an unwanted pregnancy, it's great that adoption is absolutely a choice you can make and feel good about." Period, end of story. The best argument for ALL choices often tends to be a very simple reminder that the world should not own women or their bodies, or whatever they MAKE with their bodies. A simple reminder that this all boils down to each woman's choice and HER life -- and remember, baby girls grow into women -- really is the start and end of these discussions.

If another person isn't willing to let it be, you're not going to get anywhere, because clearly, that person IS antichoice and DOES feel she should be able to dictate what other women should choose by her choice.

Of course, in that case, might be worth asking her how she'd feel if law dictated hers, by say, providing her no choice but TO abort or TO parent.

[ 03-08-2006, 02:42 PM: Message edited by: Miz Scarlet ]

Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

Posts: 68290 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Member # 26508

Icon 1 posted      Profile for blueveggie     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 

Catholic Charities stuns state, ends adoptions

In a stunning turn of events, Archbishop Sean P. O'Malley and leaders of Catholic Charities of Boston announced yesterday that the agency will end its adoption work, deciding to abandon its founding mission, rather than comply with state law requiring that gays be allowed to adopt children.

so sad..

Posts: 86 | From: southern CA | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator

  New Poll   Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | Get the Whole Story! Go Home to SCARLETEEN: Sex Ed for the Real World | Privacy Statement

Copyright 1998, 2014 Heather Corinna/Scarleteen Providing comprehensive sex education online to teens and young adults worldwide since 1998

Information on this site is provided for educational purposes. It is not meant to and cannot substitute for advice or care provided by an in-person medical professional. The information contained herein is not meant to be used to diagnose or treat a health problem or disease, or for prescribing any medication. You should always consult your own healthcare provider if you have a health problem or medical condition.

Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3