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» Got Questions? Get Answers. » SCARLETEEN CENTRAL » Sexual Ethics and Politics » 'Upskirt' photos legal, says Washington state Supreme Court

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Author Topic: 'Upskirt' photos legal, says Washington state Supreme Court
Dzuunmod
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The Supreme Court of the United States' state of Washington recently ruled that taking photos from underneath women's skirts is legal - even if the women don't consent. This only applies to situations where the women are in public places, of course.

An article about the case, from before the decision was rendered can be found here. (If anyone can track down an article about the deicision, that'd be useful. I wasn't able to.)

The judges basically ruled that women (or people, for that matter) don't have an expectation of privacy when they are in public, and so, photos of them, even photos of parts of their bodies that they've obviously tried to cover, are a-ok.

In my province, the law is that to videotape someone, or photograph them for the purposes of broadcasting or publishing those pictures is not legal unless you have the written permission of the people in question to do so. You can take pictures for publication without permission, only if no one is recognizable in them. I think that's a solid law. This ruling in Washington is nonsense, as far as I'm concerned. Women who are wearing skirts are wearing them for a reason. People shouldn't have to worry about junk like this.

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"Isn't it amazing what you can accomplish/when the little sensation gets in your way/no ambition whisperin' over your shoulder/oh, isn't it amazing you can do anything"
-The Tragically Hip, Fireworks


Posts: 1515 | From: Montreal, Quebec, Canada | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
KittenGoddess
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That's utterly repulsive, if you ask me. I doubt that verdict will hold up though. Not only will every women's group around be on them, but so will the Christian Right, and the ACLU. To me, that's a very clear violation of my privacy and my body. I don't care if it is a public place, I still have a right to expect people to stay outside my clothes. If I wanted someone to see what was under my skirt, then I'd go naked on the bottom (for which I'd promptly be arrested...so I suppose that means that that it's a pretty much lose-lose situation when it comes to wearing a skirt). Nothing like being told that just because you're wearing a certain type of attire, you're no longer entitled to any privacy. Imho, that seem like one step away from saying that if a woman's wearing a skirt and is raped, she was asking for it.

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KittenGoddess
Scarleteen Advocate (and Labia Lady)

"The whole world is full of morons...they just congregate on the internet cause it's easy for them to push the buttons."

[This message has been edited by KittenGoddess (edited 09-19-2002).]


Posts: 7316 | From: USA | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Heather
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Were genitals NOT seen as something different than other body parts by our culture, I actually wouldn't have a problem with it. The laws here in general are such that if a person is in a public place, one can take their photo and use it without permission. And I'm supporting of that.

However, it IS the case that genitalia is seen as different, so I don't feel this ruling is fair nor just..

Let's try some things on for size:
¥ I put up a banner advertising an adult site that shows a picture of an ankle and says, "Look at this chick's hidden annkle!" and I put up a banner with an upskirt photo that says, "Look at this chick's hidden hooha (insert more demeaning term here)!" We all know which is going to get clicked on.

¥ If I model for photographs which are clothed, or partially clothed but with my elbow showing, it's not going to have ANY impact on my finding employment, on my status with my community, etc. Not so with photos of a person's panties or genitals -- given the consequences, that subject should have the right to make those choices for herself, not have someone else make them for her.

For the record, I don't know of ANY (doesn't mean there aren't. but I have never seen a one) "upskirt" sites or collections about men, so I think it's pretty safe to say this issue is pretty gender-based.

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Heather Corinna
Editor and Founder, Scarleteen

My epitaph should read: "She worked herself into this ground."
-- Kay Bailey Hutchinson


Posts: 68237 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Touchstone
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sorry...oops

i think we should change it so members can delete their own posts ;(

[This message has been edited by Touchstone (edited 09-24-2002).]


Posts: 36 | From: USA, NY | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Touchstone
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I think that while they may be in a public place, people (and especially their genitals, in my [american] culture) are private things ( i don't like calling people things, oh well) so...if there is a bench in a park, its a public thing, but if i sit on it, the area I'm in becomes kinda private, and shouldn't be invaded by other people.

does what i just said make any sense....

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Truth is a three sided blade, your side, their side, and the truth.


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badly_behaved_badger
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What I'm wondering is - is it legal to go and look up someones skirt? I mean physically get down on the floor and peek up someones skirt? I'm pretty sure that would be considered sexual harrassment of a kind (correct me if I'm wrong...) There isn't a lot of difference between looking up someone's skirt and taking photos up someones skirt, infact, the second one is probably worse. I think that legalising upskirt photos is a loophole in the law and a silly one at that.
*Badger*

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You are the most beautiful thing under the sun, girl, but when the sun is replaced by the velvet night and I can see your face no longer, are you still so fine?

The blind man sees more clearly than the rest of the human race, coz when the lights go up he sees the person and not the face.


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Dzuunmod
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On that note, badger, there was a case some years ago in Toronto, where a man had a tiny camera hidden in his shoe. I'm sure you see where this is going. He would approach women, and get close enough to take pictures up their skirts.

I know that in Toronto, he was arrested, and this activity wasn't legal.

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"Isn't it amazing what you can accomplish/when the little sensation gets in your way/no ambition whisperin' over your shoulder/oh, isn't it amazing you can do anything"
-The Tragically Hip, Fireworks


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TotalRecall
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The judges are sinful people, too. This is just their sinful nature talking. They really should be removed from the bench.
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Sunset_Rose
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Total Recall:
I really don't think that you are in a position to say who is sinful and who is not. I suppose you would like to be the one on the bench, seeing as you seem to think yourself free of sin!

Judge not, for ye too shall be judged

Or does that not mean anything to you?


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lemming
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TotalRecall, you have been warned to please not make remarks like this in another thread. From the Guidelines:
quote:

You agree, by registering to use this service, to adhere to all of the following guidelines. You agree that you will not use this board to post any material which is knowingly false or defamatory, deliberately inaccurate, abusive, hateful, harassing, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law.
<snip>
When posting, you are expected to be respectful of your fellow posters and our staff, and to use language which is unlikely to offend anyone, which is not salacious or overly explicit, and which encourages intelligent, safe and mature discussion of the issues at hand.

Please adapt your tone.

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Laurel Lemming
Scarleteen Advocate

"Ooh, I'll settle down with some old story/About a boy who's just like me/Thought there was love in everything and everyone, you're so naive!"-Belle and Sebastian, "Get Me Away From Here I'm Dying"


Posts: 3156 | From: Austin, Texas | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Dzuunmod
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New on this story is an ordinance passed by Seattle City Council to make it punishable by fine to film or photograph people's unmentionables without their knowledge and consent.

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"Will you help him change the world? Can you dig it?"
"Yes I can!"
-Chicago, Saturday in the Park (Yeah, yeah. Shut up.)


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roziline
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yello.

imo peoples bodies are there own. I personally wouldnt be in this position because i dont like skirts. It is up to the individual. Laws come and go alot of the time.

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Rosie
the girl dreams are made of =)


Posts: 68 | From: UK | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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