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» Scarleteen Boards: 2000 - 2014 (Archive) » SCARLETEEN CENTRAL » Sexual Ethics and Politics » Gays in the military...

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Author Topic: Gays in the military...
morganlh85
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So if the Man finds out you're gay, you get kicked out of the army. I find that ridiculous. What EXACTLY are they trying to accomplish with this rule?
Posts: 304 | From: Pittsburgh PA | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lin
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Here, if you are gay, you must tell the officers during your medical checkups and you get sent to a different bunk where all the gay men are.

Which I find very insulting as though homosexuals are abnormal or something. Or worse, is the military afraid that these homosexuals will try to rape all the hetereosexual men? Geez. Someone up there needs to get a brain.

But apparently, being homosexual is listed as a disease in some world health directory which we follow. That's what I heard from some of my homosexual friends who have served in the army already so I am not too sure how true that is.

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Posts: 2294 | From: Singapore | Registered: Dec 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Celtic Daisy
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That's so stupid! Being homosexual is just anther lifestyle. As far as i'm concerned, that's like seperating religions or race, and i find it VERY very very wrong.

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Gaffer
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Saying homosexuality is a lifestyle makes it sound as though it's a choice. It is just heterosexuality with a little tweaking--now if only we could penetrate the thick skulls of whoever is in charge of the world. It's like that old saying: Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.

The only argument I've ever heard that supports banning me from the military is really weak, something to do with undermining group dynamics in the field--I don't know, it was too silly to make a note of. Nooooo, I ended a sentence with a preposition. Ach, I did it again.


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ThisGuy
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Poor preposition users are not allowed in the military. Too bad!

Personally, I don't find the idea of having big holes shot in me to be particularly heterosexual. Not sure why...

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Beppie
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I remember seeing this argument at another message board. One person was saying that they don't believe that gay people should be in the military for those "group dynamic" reasons. Another was quick to point out that in times of war, the restrictions about gay men are some of the first ones to be conveniently "forgotten". When it comes down to actual combat where lives are at stake, no one seems to be too worried about the group dynamic. It goes to show that the argument for keeping non-heterosexual people out of the military is one based on prejudice, rather than on serious arguments.
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Lin
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Well, if anyone is desperate to join the military, come to Singapore.

The only reason gays are probably allowed in the military here is because we don't have enough men.


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Confused boy
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I thought at the moment that America and Europe had introduced the 'dont ask, dont tell' poilicy meaning that you could be in the army and no one would ask about your sexuality. Has it changed again or was that just a proposal? Oh and as said in a previous thread, homosexuality has been encouraged in armies in some parts of history (Ancient Geece) as it encouraged better comradeship.
Posts: 711 | From: England | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
alaska
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I agree confused, this all got my confused, too. To the best of my knowledge, the US Army does have "don't ask don't tell", doesn't it? I shall check that up.

Over here in Germany, the army does not discriminate against people who are not hetero. Anyone can join, if (s)he passes the entrance exams.

We don't have a "don't ask don't tell" policy, you can be openly gay in the armed forces, even though I am not quite sure as to how well that actually works in reality. Since January, women can join, too, and I had the pleasure of getting my hands on an official Bundeswehr guideline on "Sexuality in the armed forces" which gives regulations as to how women and non hetero people should be included and that people should respect each others sexuality. It's written for people who have lived on some planet ruled by heterosexual men (that's actually a pretty good methaphor for our armed forces), really quite hilarious in all, bummer that it is in german, I bet you'd get a kick out of it, too. Quite funny.

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"We must become the change we want to see."
Mahatma Gandhi


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alaska
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For the impact of the "Don't ask, don't tell" policy in the US army, check out this June 2000 article from Salon.com

"Don't ask, don't tell, don't fall in love"

[This message has been edited by Alaska (edited 05-02-2001).]


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LilBlueSmurf
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Lin ~

I read an article a while back about how the Chinese gov. still viewed homosexuality as an illness. This has changed recently, or is in the process of changing. Maybe it will for you guys too ... ??

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Baptist
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--edited by KittenGoddess--

Baptist, the entire content of this post is blatently homophobic and completely unacceptable for this board. I have removed it because it is offensive. The content of your post has been emailed to Miz Scarlet with a note for her to review what you have chosen to express. Please remember that around here that kind of attitude will not be tolerated at all.

If you have a problem with this, please feel free to email Miz Scarlet about it.

[This message has been edited by KittenGoddess (edited 05-02-2001).]


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towel42
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Baptist? I don't want to start a fight with you, I really, really don't. But guess what? If you're gay, that doesn't mean you're lusting for every person around you. Its just like it is for heterosexuals; you might get a crush on someone, or you might find a number of people attractive. But most people can contain themselves enough to not physically leap upon someone of the opposite sex and start banging them at the drop of a hat. If you do that, you're a rapist. The way you put it, I get the feeling you think homosexuals must all be perverts or rapisits. I can understand the discomfort of people who may be **potentially** sexually attracted to you sharing a shower room, but you know what? You live in this world, and you may have to get over the discomfort. Whether you agree with homosexuality or not, there is something called tolerance which can do a whole lot of good.

Oh, and as a side note, homosexuality was extremely common in both the Greek and Roman armies, and I think they all fought pretty well.

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morganlh85
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I didn't get to read baptist's post, but I can pretty much figure what he said.

Well, if we're afraid of gay people falling in love, then shouldn't women be barred from the military? What's stopping them from falling in love, or the straight men from falling in love with them?

The army isn't about love. People don't join the army to get a date. They do it for love of their country. If we were at war, and needed protection, would you really care if that person who were helping you was gay or straight?


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BruinDan
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edited

[This message has been edited by BruinDan (edited 09-25-2002).]


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Heather
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All of you are making really excellent points, here.

The truth of the matter is that in ANY work situation, we rarely even know about someone's sexual orientation or identity unless we have the time to ask about them and their partnerships, and their lives.

And if in any work situation, having a worker who may be attracted to other workers is an issue, then considering that most people in the world are heterosexual, perhaps we'd best start there.

However, work is work. And anyone who takes their job seriously knows that, and knows what boundaries and limitations need be to ensure they and others can do their work.

Not only are straight men not the only people who can be "warriors," but men and women, of any orientation, can be.

And for the record, most rapists are, and always have been, heterosexual men, as are most of the men who rape in prisons and in wars.

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Heather Corinna
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