Now and then, I get some pretty naty hate mail.

But the other night, I got one that not only informed me that I was a "menace who needed to be stopped from poisoning children" (nice, eh? Welcome to my mailbox.) but the writer also asked me this:

"Where do you get the idea that teens even have the right to have sex?"

Yikes. And she wasn't just talking about intercourse, either.

Do you feel that it's fair for an adult, or even a set of laws, to decide that all of you are ready for sex at 18 regardless of your own personal readiness?

Do you get this message a lot? How does it make you feel? Do you think it empowers you to make good choices and helps you wait until you;re ready, or do you feel that it disempowers you to even MAKE your own choices?

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Heather Corinna
Editor and Founder, Scarleteen

As most of you know, I just recently lost my virginity, back in October (that's recent to me). I was 16 at the time (and i'm now 17).

I don't think it's fair to put an age limit on it. Everyone matures at different speeds and at different ages in their lifetime. I started menstruating at 12, so that makes me physically ready ... Now we've gotta take care of mentally and emotionally. I was all of the above and I don't regret it.

However, I do think that the physical aspect has to be the first to come. It usually is. You can't be comfortable w/ such an act until you've started to grow into a mature adult (usually meaning menstruation for women). The other two will fall into place in time.

What is so big about that number. That exactly what it is, a number. People mature at different ages. I think that us *kids* have the right to choose if we want to have sex, but only if we are ready and can accept the conequences. Some people dont think before they have sex and thats what gets them in trouble. If us children under 18 thought about it, maybe they would put it off until they could handle it. We also have to explore ourselves. I dont just mean with oral sex and with our partners, but with ourselves.

I dont think that people have the right to e-mail you and harrass you, at least you are teaching us the rights and wrongs, and to have safe sex. After coming to this website, us *kiddies* will be prepared for the world of sex.

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*~*~12/3/99*~*
*~*~*~I LOVE YOU BOB FOREVER AND ALWAYS*~*~*~

So we can't really decide based on age. However, is there a necessity for an "age of consent"?In Ontario, the age is 16, in the other 9 provinces it is 14. Should we draw a bar at a particular age?

If we try to place a bar based on intellectual, emotional, and financial competance, how could it be enforced?

BTW, I mention financial competence based on Miz Scarlet's sexual readiness test which does have a financial component.

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"A free society is a place where it's safe to be unpopular."

- Adlai Stevenson

I think the other posters have made the point pretty well. Age, I don't believe, isn't what dictates whether a person is ready for sex. It's not like, at the moment you turn 18, you suddenly get hit with a wave of clarity and maturity and go "I'm ready now!". I've known some 16 year olds that were far more mature and equipped to handle the responsibility of sex than some 20 year olds. It all depends on the person.

I think if a person is ready, physically and emotionally, to accept all the after-effects of sex, and knows how to stay safe, they have every right to participate in consensual sex.

I frequently advocate waiting until your really, really sure about anything before doing it. This philosophy applies to everything, I've found. It takes serious thought to make this sort of decision, and it should be taken as such. I do not believe it takes achieving a specific age, but more a level of maturity overall (including physical, good point guys) to make these sorts of potentially life-changing decisions.

Does age play a part in this? Maybe. I wouldn't like to say that the law should be abolished or that 18 is too old or that hey, 50 year olds can have irresponsible sex because it is the majority that the government has to look after.

I waited until I was 16 to have sex even though I felt that I was ready, but I now realise I was not and it wasn't such a big deal.

But I believe such laws should go hand in hand with sex education classes. Proper ones not just the ones of the "Don't have Sex" variety.

I used to argue alot against such laws when I was younger like why must I be 21 to watch an R rated movie? But I guess I realise over time that damn, not everybody is like me and I wouldn't want these people watching certain movies when they are 17 or 18. Same as sex.

The fact is, as well as being physically prepared for sex, you really should be emotionally prepared too. Counsellors argue that this is so, and many people do seem to support the idea.

So you might be menstruating at 9 years old, like some people actually do - but in today's society, a 9-year-old having sex is considered stupid, sick, and immature.

Basically, everyone feels it's wrong because the 9-year-old wouldn't be prepared emotionally for it; thus laws are made about the age you should have sex, and these laws are based on the age they feel most people are ready for sex at.

Teenagers aren't necessarily trusted because they are viewed as going through years where they suffer from a lot of insecurities, and need to discover oneself a bit better.

Unfortunately, laws such as these don't really seem to work (in my opinion anyway).

quote:

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Putting a law on it creates so many more problems than it solves

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I think BJadeT is right about this. There is an increase of STD's in young adults. I wonder how many of them are underage, and scared to ask for protection?

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*Read my diary

*Read my page

Well, I tried my best for that one.

Anyways, I mean, I'll be 18 in 3 weeks (May 4th) and I guess that I'll feel the same the day before than the exact day. To say, that there's no age to be ready. It's always different for everyone. People can't decide when "we" are ready to have sex. I haven't even kissed a girl in my life and I don't consider it sex but some people do (never really seen why, maybe because one thing lead to the other but...).

BTW, Bobolink, I think here in Quebec it's now 16 and no longer 14 like you said.

And again, LilBlueSmurf is the first to reply. How amazed by that, I can't believe how she does that.

David

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- I hope I shall be able to confide in you conpletely, as I have never been able to do in anyone before, and I hope that you will be a great support and comfort to me.

I agree tho. You can't just wake up one day and decide "hey, i'm 18, so that means i'm ready to do the horizontal mombo!!" No, you're not. And hey, if someone thinks they're ready at 13 and they've got proper measures taken care of, grrrreat. Regret is a very very bad thing to have to deal w/ after the fact tho. It's not something you can take back.

Freedom is not something you are given. It is something that you yourself create. Freedom is power, the power to choose who and what you will be as well as what you will do. Freedom is itself a choice, the choice to be soverign unto yourself and not live at the whim of another. It is the most precious thing any of us have and the first thing that other people will try to take away. There are two main methods used to try and do this. The first is to use force or power to overwhelm your ability to defend your freedom. The second is for the person to try and trick you into believing that you're not really free and that you are somehow answerable to them. Most people don't have the ability to overwhelm by force, leaving them with only the second option. The idea that the thoughts, beliefs and opinions of others have some kind of inherent importance plays into this. Truths matter whether anyone agrees with them or not, but opinions matter only as much as the person who holds them can do something about them.

People like this woman will try and convince us that we don't have the right to decide if, when and with whom we will have sex. But the key is that it will only be true if we agree with her, if we surrender the power and therefore the right to make that choice for ourselves. She only has as much power as we give her. Lets be smart and not give her any. Instead lets give her the finger.

This is my mother, on crack.
My mother's mantra is "I'm an adult, so I can do whatever I want." This was her stock answer for why she could do things that I couldn't while I was in the house. And I'd ask, "So when do I get to (spend money irresponsibly, eat my dessert first, sleep over at the Timming's house)?"

"When you're an adult." And she'd never specify when that age was. As if when I turned 16, or 18, or 21 I would suddenly have all the knowledge I needed to deal with the real world.

Well, something I've learned is that you DON'T acquire that knowledge by turning a certain age. I grew up thinking in the back of my mind that when I had to open a bank account or write a check or pump gas I would just KNOW how to do it--and I moved out, and I was clueless. Age doesn't bring knowledge, and that's what's wrong with setting ages on anything at all.

>>Yikes. And she wasn't just talking about intercourse, either.

And that's the scary thing. You know, this is my body we're talking about. This is YOUR body we're talking about. Don't you like to think that you have some say over what goes on with your body? I was ready for sex at 16, and I knew it. I thought about it. I wasn't incredibly well-informed, but, you know, I did okay. And it would have been much more traumatizing to have been told that I was NOT going to have sex till I was 18 than to simply go about it myself. But secrets hurt.

>>Do you feel that it's fair for an adult, or even a set of laws, to decide that all of you are ready for sex at 18 regardless of your own personal readiness?

No. Some people are ready at 14. Some people aren't ready at 40. Some people may never be prepared to have sex with another person, in my opinion. An age is NO RELIABLE INDICATION of readiness for sex. It's just one aspect.

>>Do you get this message a lot? How does it make you feel? Do you think it empowers you to make good choices and helps you wait until you;re ready, or do you feel that it disempowers you to even MAKE your own choices?

The latter. It has always made me feel powerless. You can't do anything about your age. You can have the best damn resume in the world, have written monthlies for the New Yorker, and be fifteen and the Tribune might not hire you. No matter what you learn or what you do, you cannot change your age. So by putting an age requirement on something so basically human as sex, you're disempowering someone from their own body.

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~lemming, Scarleteen Advocate

Eck, I can sympathize with that. Seems there are some people who can't deal with a differing of opinion any other way than to get vicious over it . . .

"Do you get this message a lot? How does it make you feel? Do you think it empowers you to make good choices and helps you wait until you;re ready, or do you feel that it disempowers you to even MAKE your own choices?"

I am sexually active with my boyfriend of more than a year. We love and trust each other very much. We discussed every step thoroughly before going ahead, to make sure that there would be no regrets (there were none). We were extremely finicky about birth control and other safety measures. All in all, it is one o the most satisfying parts of my life.

My parents, however, do not know about this. My father, in so many words, called me a slut for "shacking up" with this boy at all hours (he assumed we were having sex because we hang out so much). My mother has told me that she does not want me "drawn into the trap of sex". She has condemned couples living together in college because "you can't understand love at that age". I tried to explain that I knew I'd be responsible about sex; I was that sort of person. She told me that I didn't understand sex. That teenagers "don't know how to control themselves" when they're passionate. My father wants to limit the time I spend with my boyfriend (it's a LDR. We spend an hour or so every day chatting on the 'net, plus visits as often as possible) because I'm "wasting my life staring into his eyes all day". They've threatened to keep me from him physically (since I am a minor without a credit card, I cannot book my own plane fares; they control this. They have also threatened to remove my computer.)

Yes, it hurts. In so many other ways my parents are reasonable (well, they tend toward the snide about my religious beliefs, but that's another story), but in general they're wonderful people, and I can discuss anything with them. In this one aspect of my life, however, I feel so cut off from them. I wish I could communicate with them. I wish their prejudices weren't so strong. I wish my mother was there to discuss with me all my feelings about my sexuality. Empowers me? How could it? It makes me feel frozen and hurt; guilty for pursuing something that in no way is wrong or sick. It alienates me from my parents, and creates the only- the only negative aspect to my sex life.

I know, though, that I am VERY lucky overall. My boyfriend is a wonderful person who is always open to discussion about this or any other subject. I know if he wasn't as supportive, my feelings about this entire issue would be drastically changed. I guess if I had to state a universal stance, it would be this: that no one can tell you what is in your heart, minor or not. Telling someone that they are wrong is never empowering. And the best form of sex ed is open discussion of the options, with an emphasis on safety, and self-esteem.

I'm sorry this was such a long post, but it really hit a nerve in me. Thanks for listening.

Do also remember that the western notion of marriage is a very limited thing, and does not enter into all cultures, eras and communities, nor is it appplicable to all people. Too, not everyone WANTS to have children, nor can everyone get married nor are all men and women heterosexual. Not all couples wish to be monogamous.

At Scarleteen, this is a non-issue because we recognize MANY diverse orientations, relationship models, sexual identities, choices, cultures and types of partnership.

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Heather Corinna
Editor and Founder, Scarleteen

Actually, I find something like saying "teenagers shouldn't have the right to have sex" or enforcing age laws to be a little offensive- it makes it seem like teenagers can't make their own decisions or are not in the right state of mind or something. We're perfectly capable of thinking for ourselves, whether we make the right decisions or the wrong ones, they're still our choices.

Who's to say that a 15 year old or a 16 year old are less mature than an 18 year old? I know some people over the age of 18 who are not emotionally ready for sex even. Since everybody matures at a different rate, I find it completely possible for a teenager to be emotionally and physically ready for sex, and capable of making their own choices.

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*^Lucky^*
Come check out what's goin on in Lucky's mind!

All I can say is, who cares what society thinks?

The older I get, and I'm a long in the tooth 19 year old , the more I realize just how suckered most people are by social conditioning. We're taught from a young age that fitting in with the rules and restrictions that society sets for us is important, that those rules and restrictions are inherently valid or have some kind of innate power over us. The fact that most people buy into this and go along with it is what allows age restrictions to exist in the first place.

So the next time you feel upset because the system treats you as less than others simply because you are younger than others, just remember that while you don't have any choice about whether you are going to be treated that way, you do have a choice as to whether you are going to agree with it and how you are going to respond to it.

I'm going to stop now before I start ranting.
Lee, the opinionated $#@ who thinks he knows everything

while a 15-16 year old might be "mentally/spiritually" ready for sex, and, goddess forbid, an unplanned pregnancy or STD, it is quite unlikely that they are financially ready for all the extras just to *HAVE* sex, let alone if a pregnancy or STD would occur. while some kids strike out on their own at an early age, that is the exception, not the norm - most kids still have financial ties to their parents well into college, not just until the magical "18th birthday."

While I am not a parent, I am at the age that I'm considering my options - I'm engaged, and I'll be over thirty when I'm married. After hashing everything over in my mind, and considering what I know, how I behaved sexually at a young age, and reading what many posters at this very site have said, i could not condone any child of mine having sexual intercourse until they are 18...why? For a couple of reasons:

first and foremost, if my 15 year old gets pregnant, ultimately, i am financially responsible not only for her, but for her new baby, as well. And yes, i hear cries of "but i could find a job!" and yes, one probably could, but not one making what it takes to rear a child. Life is incredibly expensive, and until you've *REALLY* been out on your own, and paid all of your bills, that's hard to understand. Major budget crunches happen at the most inconvenient times - heck, most people are complaining (me included) that they have to find money that will cover their increased gas costs (my monthly bill went from $56 to $169! Quite frankly, iI would prefer not having a teenaged child decide what I will be doing with all of my extra money for the next few years. When young adults make choices about their future, they forget that their parents might actually have to take the brunt of the responsibility for those choices...That might be a hard pill for most teenagers to shallow, but they have to realize that what they consider a huge mistake might actually be major thing for their parents, as well.

Also, and this is a personal opinion more than anything else, I think that it is better to err on the side of caution, and wait until you are legally an adult to take on the responsibility of sex. Age of consent aside, waiting is never a bad thing - it will always be there, and it will allow young adults to develop without the intense emotional complications of sex...

Does that mean I wouldn't teach my kids about birth control, take them to purchase it if needed, or discuss sexual issues with them? no, of course not. Openness is key to a healthy relationship, and it would be amazingly stupid to assume that just because I don't condone it, that they would follow my wishes. however, I would make it very clear to them that this is something i would prefer them to do as an adult, not as someone who is ultimately my responsibility under the law. I respected my parents quite a bit, even when we didn't agree on such things - while I knew that it was ultimately my decision, knowing that they were against it did carry some weight.

Now is the person who emailed you this refering only to intercourse? Or refering to oral sex and masturbation as well? I first masturbated when i was 12, and I think masturbation is a healthy part of growing up.

quote:

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Originally posted by Sapphire85:
I'm not allowed over my boyfriend's house because my dad says that we'll "do nasty things." His mother is always there, and sure we hook up, but we wouldn't have sex. My dad always calls me a slut (not outright, but in subtler ways) and my mom keeps giving me the "you're too young, you have no idea what you're doing" talk. I don't know what really to do.. I just kind of nod my head when they start on their sermons.

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If we all waited until we got married, would there be a clause in the marriage ceremony with instructions on how to have sex? Trying to cover up our sexuality would only cause more problems because if you can't talk about it as a teenager and wait until it's too late to ask anyone about such things, then things like safe sex and STD's won't be things that you know about; because sex is "not something that kids do". Or, should young women be, figuratively, sold to husbands as they were in the past? Maybe dowries will come back, love will disappear and all sex will mean is something that you're supposed to do when you're married.

On the other hand, it doesn't mean that every teenager ought to be having sex, either. I mean, if you think you're seriously ready to have sex and are all revved up to do it, think about this one extra thing. Will you be able to talk to your partner the next morning? The next day at school or work? Will you or your partner feel so ashamed afterwards that you would deny that it happened? Just fyi, in case.

*falls off her high and mighty soapbox* owch.
^-^;

-KawaiiGoddess

There was the horrible episode about 4 months ago when his parents found out we were having oral sex. They didnt tell my parent because they KNEW how she wouldnt even understand as much as they did. His mom was understanding, probably only because she expected it after 2 years. I felt so horribly disgusted with myself for a while, because: I was in a trusting relationship with a person I loved, and i was trying to show him how much i loved him. That's what sex is to me.

And, his father wrote him a letter with this in it,

" I think society’s desire to be “frank and forthright” about AIDS blinds us to the true nature of intimacy. Society as a whole is unable to answer honestly the question, What is sex? It uses sex to sell products. It promotes sex as a form of recreation. All the media say that sex ought to be casual, like some kind of pick-up basketball game. Society says the facts of life are a fact of life: Don’t ask too many questions.

But there have to be rules, don’t there? Even walking across the street has rules. So society says that so long as sex is unlikely to lead to pregnancy, illness, or death, and is not forced upon anyone, anything, between anyone, is ok. That is a thin, transparent and shallow kind of teaching and you should not accept it as true, no matter how commonly it is made."
(sorry this is so long)

"Intimacy is closeness between two people. It is sharing between two people. And although its form changes across a wide spectrum of ages, true intimacy between two young adolescents is not possible."

!?!?!?!? This is the age barrier. Adolescents? How does he know that we were not in a sharing and loving relationship? If we were 18, it wouldnt of been a big deal, taking no consideration in the fact that we were emotionally ready for something like that, so we decided we could do it. Everything was fine until we were "the adolecents". *urgh* Having an age barrier is horrible, because it limits people's (and parent's) minds about thier children's actual feelings and their readiness to take things on themselves. So, the consequence is: we're under 18, so you cant truly love, or be intimate with someone.

I dont think thats right.
(thanks for reading.)

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I'm from the United States of Amnesia where Apathy is president. Nope, it just got worse--George Bush is president now.

Even so, my first sexual partner was 19, while i was 16. That doesn't make him a pedophile. I don't regret it. My parents didn't press charges on him (even if they could've, they wouldn't) ...

Us kids are never gonna grow up if you don't let us. You have to learn to be repsonsible at one point or another. Might as well start now.

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When mom found my diaphram, I told her it was a bathing cap for my cat.
~ Liz Winston

?!?!?! Adolescents can't be intimite? ARGH! That's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard! I'm sorry that your boyfriend's dad is being so unreasonable . . . maybe if the three of you sat down and talked about it?

Second, and to everyone:

This is all made even worse by the current state of societtal hysteria about youth sexuality and "adults corrupting minors." We don't make the laws, but adults who run sexuality businesses have to follow them. especially those like Good Vibrations who don't profit the way mainstream pornography and the adult industry does.

And the truth is, the YOUTHS have more of a chance of cahnging them. So if these things bother you, I implore you to writte a letter to your congressman. Kvetching and moaning and venting sure make us feel better, but they don't change much.

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Heather Corinna
Editor and Founder, Scarleteen

I am a free girl, my life's ambition is to stop the gender apartheid in Afghanistan, and I'm going to do it.

I am such an empowered individual and yet the discovering of myself sexually was a traumatic experience for me (not to mention poor Ben who was rather at a loss as to why I would burst into tears 10 minutes after enjoying it so much). I soon realized that my bizarre behaviour was a direct result of the messages of people such as the woman who wrote to MizScarlet in such a disgusting manner. She, and those like her were making me feel guilty, dirty. However, I knew that I was niether of these things, and still am not. Ben is the most lovely person I will ever know and I now (through talking to him about it and reading 'Tess of the D'urbervilles') realise that I have to be strong and excercise my freedom to do as I feel, as long as I am not hurting anyone.

I am not ashamed and feel that part of who I am is a sexual young girl who is discovering everything for the first time within a beautiful, loving relationship. The fact that people try to take away pieces of the joy that my love and lovemaking causes me is abhorrent. These things are honestly beautiful and should not be judged.

In addition, Christianity (although I'm not even a Christian!) in some ways hindered me. My best friends since I was 4 are both Christian and have tried to enforce the oppressive values that they have learned upon me. I am happy for them, because they are indeed happy in their oppression, but that it what it is, oppression. Keeping women from discovering themselves sexually before marriage keeps them at the power of their husands (upon whom the standard is not so visciously enforced) and that is what I think is more of a problem...not my sexuality.

Thank you very much for this site, it helped me very much as well (gosh, I hope I don't cause you more harrid letters... "YOU were in part responsible for that CHILD'S coming to terms with her sexuality, SHAME ON YOU!" the opposite is true, as you well know.)

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"Intimacy is being comfortable with someone rummaging through your soul." - unknown

[This message has been edited by Anna-Clare (edited 06-07-2001).]

I kinda figured. ::makes a face::

<< if these things bother you, I implore you to writte a letter to your congressman. Kvetching and moaning and venting sure make us feel better, but they don't change much. >>

Point well taken. <g> Though, I did need to feel better. And now I do.

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Signed, Moth.

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You laugh because im diffrent i laugh because you're all the same...Ye as i walk through the valley in the shadow of death i shall fear no evil, cuz i'm the biggest baddest meanest motherf***er in the valley!!!