posted
I feel like society sends the message that the end goal of dating should be marriage. In the case of myself and my current girlfriend, though, we've discussed the fact that our relationship (at least in its current incarnation) has a deadline, and I'm struggling with that discrepancy.
To explain the "deadline": I'm studying abroad in her country and plan to move home at the end of the summer. She has another year of school here before even considering moving (and neither of us really wants to live in the other's country long-term). We've agreed that we won't continue the relationship long-distance. Even knowing that, though, I keep finding myself noticing little things about her behavior and thinking about how they would fit with my own habits/values/idiosyncrasies if we were to make a life together longer-term. Anyone else find themselves mentally jumping to the future when it doesn't make sense for the relationship model?
I know that many teenage and 20-something couples think that they'll be together forever and statistically most won't. But is it unhealthy to have some part of your feelings about your partner impacted by criteria that don't really impact the relationship that you have now? If so, how do you avoid buying into the idea that dating is an audition for marriage rather than a way for people to become closer and enjoy each others' company now? Suggestions?
Thanks!
Posts: 63 | From: DC, MA, IL, IS - changes every couple years | Registered: Dec 2008
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I'm glad that things are going well for you and your girlfriend. You bring up a lot of points to ponder and there's so much to address. I'd also like to double-check some things: both of you are female? You are a US citizen and she's a citizen of the country you're currently in; may I ask what country or region it is? Is it one that allows gay marriage? (Not to say that this is your plan but when it comes to international relationships, those pesky legal details can make all the difference.)
I see what you mean when you say your long-term worries are making it hard to focus on the here and now, even if that's what you wish you could do. I think it's wise, if painful, that you two have realized and accepted that it probably won't be permanent. Your reasons for not wanting to stay together are all very valid; were you to want to try to make it work, I think you could-- waiting a year apart isn't that long at all really. I see you move around often, which has its perks and can also be hard and effect how you approach or feel about relationships. The summer is, in fact, quite far away (I know that sounds contradictory to what I just said about a year apart) and a lot can happen. I say, if possible, maybe try not to set so many definites or ultimatums right now and just see where it takes you. I mean, that is what I think you'd like to do but can't seem to do mentally.
What are you getting out of this relationship? What are the good things about it? I have to admit, and maybe I'm just totally off here, that I'm getting an overall negative vibe about this relationship from your end. Perhaps the little things you're noticing now are signs that it's not the best even short-term match?
I have had experience with long-distance, international relationships and know a number of people who've experienced the same. No one relationship is the same but there are certainly a lot of similarities. I remember one of the first big relationships I had when living abroad; I had spent a lot of time making this relationship happen. Once in the relationship and as it progressed, our differences and incompatibility started to show itself. Ending it was painful but the right decision and, with time, I had a larger dating pool and knew the language, culture, and myself better and could make better decisions. If you're used to changing yourself to fit into various cultures, your noticing her behavior and wondering how it would fit into your routine and personality might be a sign that the true you is coming out more; that happens in any relationship but is especially true of crosscultural ones.
For that relationship, the long-term not working made the short-term not work, for lack of better wording; I hear you there. However, I have had such relationships where I thought: "If this were to end today, it'd be ok because it's been so much fun and meaningful as is." I guess the bottom line is that I'm getting the vibe that this may not be something you want to be in even much longer short-term, but maybe I'm very off, too.
Posts: 3318 | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
First, I wanted to thank you for your quick response, and I hope that enough of what I wrote is relevant to other young adults (what with all the transition periods we tend to have) that it's okay that I posted to Scarleteen! Now to respond to what you said...
quote: both of you are female? You are a US citizen and she's a citizen of the country you're currently in; may I ask what country or region it is? Is it one that allows gay marriage? (Not to say that this is your plan but when it comes to international relationships, those pesky legal details can make all the difference.)
Yes, we're both (cisgendered) women. This country doesn't allow gay marriage but I actually have citizenship here (in addition to the U.S.) through my father so for immigration purposes that's not an issue. With where I'm at now, though, I really don't see myself happily living here in the long term for other reasons (and, while it's less of an issue given the challenges of the U.S.'s crappy immigration and gay marriage laws, my girlfriend feels similarly about the U.S.).
quote:Your reasons for not wanting to stay together are all very valid; were you to want to try to make it work, I think you could-- waiting a year apart isn't that long at all really. I see you move around often, which has its perks and can also be hard and effect how you approach or feel about relationships. The summer is, in fact, quite far away (I know that sounds contradictory to what I just said about a year apart) and a lot can happen. I say, if possible, maybe try not to set so many definites or ultimatums right now and just see where it takes you.
Moving around has allowed me to have a lot of really incredible experiences and meet some awesome people. But I've also been getting sick of feeling like in order to pursue academic/professional goals I've put myself in the position of having to emotionally invest in a new social network every couple of years. I'm really feeling like I need to prioritize both giving myself more stability and being geographically close to more of the people with whom I feel closest. While you're right that the summer is far away and a lot can change before then, I've been feeling and deferring that need for well over a year and don't see it disappearing. If we had a reasonable expectation that we'd be in the same country after a year apart it would be one thing, but there are a lot of challenges to being together even after that year (not the least of which is that neither of us really feels at home in the other's country).
quote: What are you getting out of this relationship? What are the good things about it?
She's got a really unique perspective and I always come away from our conversations feeling like I see things in a new and interesting light. She's someone who's both forthright and understanding, and the relationship with her has inspired me to be more open not just with her but also more generally. I'm not quite sure how to articulate this one...I've tended to be practically ascetic – my default if there are things in my physical environment that somewhat bother me is to just let them go. The attention she gives to her own self-care, though, has helped me shift my own mindset to make changes so that I'm happier with the way I'm living (not suddenly becoming the poster child for conspicuous consumption but little things like putting a duvet cover on a blanket I don't like). While this would apply for many of my friends, we tend to have similar critiques of politics both in her country and the U.S., as well as similar perspectives on social justice, and it's always nice to have a like-minded person with whom to commiserate, be outraged, etc. As an added bonus she has a knack for doing so with humor - she makes me laugh. And it definitely doesn't hurt that looking at her curves, her putting a hand on my knee, etc. is an instant turn-on for me...
quote: Perhaps the little things you're noticing now are signs that it's not the best even short-term match?
I didn't mean to suggest that the things I'm noticing are signs of incompatibility (long-term or otherwise). Most of the things I'm thinking of are areas in which, if we were to live together, I think that we'd really balance each other out well (I'm talking about really mundane stuff like the fact that I like to cook and she's lost in the kitchen, but she's really good at making a space nice whereas I'm completely lost in that arena). My concern is that if I'm thinking about how we'd work running a household together I'm short-changing what we have now (which also, I think, explains the negative vibe you got from my original message). How do I avoid jumping from, “I really like spending time with this girl” to “This is what our life together could look like?” As a general thing, is the latter something to avoid (just because one partner envisions things a certain way doesn't mean that both want to do things that way), or a helpful way to figure out what you want in a relationship so as to be able to more effectively talk about that with your partner?
Writing this out has actually been really helpful. I think that my issue was largely that I was stressing myself out by not acknowledging what I'd like the relationship to be. Embracing those feelings, even knowing that they conflict with each of our feelings of needing to live "at home", goes a huge way towards allowing me to appreciate the time that we do have together.
Thanks for giving me the space to work through this and for sharing your own experiences and insights!
[ 02-17-2009, 05:04 PM: Message edited by: NonStraightAnswers ]
Posts: 63 | From: DC, MA, IL, IS - changes every couple years | Registered: Dec 2008
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Thanks for your update-- it sounds really good from what you're describing and I feel I have a better understanding now. I want to reply to this in depth as I think it's a very good topic to discuss and have a lot to say, but I'd like to wait until I have a little more time and energy on my hands. Hope you're having a good week!
Posts: 3318 | Registered: Jun 2003
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Hey! I'm back to finish my reply to your reply; again, thanks for sharing so many details and for your positive words. (All the quotes I'm referring to are from your most recent post here.)
quote:Originally posted by NonStraightAnswers: [QUOTE]Yes, we're both (cisgendered) women. This country doesn't allow gay marriage but I actually have citizenship here (in addition to the U.S.) through my father so for immigration purposes that's not an issue. With where I'm at now, though, I really don't see myself happily living here in the long term for other reasons (and, while it's less of an issue given the challenges of the U.S.'s crappy immigration and gay marriage laws, my girlfriend feels similarly about the U.S.).
I'm glad to see you have the advantage of citizenship in your current place of residence in addition to the US. I will mention two points: Should you want to continue the relationship elsewhere, I'm positive you could find another country that would be acceptable to both of you where you could also find work... that's what I'd hope, at least! You've been living in many, many locations in the US so you could probably answer this better than I can, but I would mention that there is so much diversity and options of where to live in the US that you and your girlfriend might find a place that works.
Plus, being an academic, if that is your goal, has a number of advantages in this regard: I have seen many universities with same-sex partner benefits and they tend to be more liberal places in general. As a professor or researcher, you would probably also have opportunities to teach abroad; again, I know you know this yourself but I'll mention it. I know of at least one international lesbian couple at a small college in the US who were able to make it work legally, too, and I consider that a sign of hope, as crappy as immigration laws tend to be and are getting worse.
quote:Moving around has allowed me to have a lot of really incredible experiences and meet some awesome people. But I've also been getting sick of feeling like in order to pursue academic/professional goals I've put myself in the position of having to emotionally invest in a new social network every couple of years. I'm really feeling like I need to prioritize both giving myself more stability and being geographically close to more of the people with whom I feel closest. While you're right that the summer is far away and a lot can change before then, I've been feeling and deferring that need for well over a year and don't see it disappearing. If we had a reasonable expectation that we'd be in the same country after a year apart it would be one thing, but there are a lot of challenges to being together even after that year (not the least of which is that neither of us really feels at home in the other's country).
Hey, I totally get you on the moving issue; I think you hit the nail on the head perfectly. To speak from my personal experience again, after moving regularly for six/seven years, I have been in the same location for now 1.5 years and plan to stay for at least a handful more years if not longer. My current job is my first priority but I do find time and energy to keep up my friendships and relationships, many of which are international due to my own personal history and leanings. It's not perfect and it's not always easy, but I am quite satisfied with it save for a few moments of yearning that come up now and then.
Fortunately, because I get summers off, I also have an awesome chunk to free time to persue these more intensively in person when mutually desired. That's not to say that I couldn't or wouldn't move for someone -- or the reverse -- but right now I plan to say put regardless of how great someone is. While a long-term relationship didn't work out with my most recent partner (together for two years, one of them away with the long summer visit), I have found other, less traditionally-looking scenarios to work for me. They might for you, too, if you're interested. For example, you two stay in touch as friends with a sexual/romantic connection, too, and see each other occasionally (like a few times a year) but are free to date others.
quote:She's got a really unique perspective and I always come away from our conversations feeling like I see things in a new and interesting light. She's someone who's both forthright and understanding, and the relationship with her has inspired me to be more open not just with her but also more generally. I'm not quite sure how to articulate this one...I've tended to be practically ascetic – my default if there are things in my physical environment that somewhat bother me is to just let them go. The attention she gives to her own self-care, though, has helped me shift my own mindset to make changes so that I'm happier with the way I'm living (not suddenly becoming the poster child for conspicuous consumption but little things like putting a duvet cover on a blanket I don't like). While this would apply for many of my friends, we tend to have similar critiques of politics both in her country and the U.S., as well as similar perspectives on social justice, and it's always nice to have a like-minded person with whom to commiserate, be outraged, etc. As an added bonus she has a knack for doing so with humor - she makes me laugh. And it definitely doesn't hurt that looking at her curves, her putting a hand on my knee, etc. is an instant turn-on for me...
Oh gosh, the great conversations, the thrill of little signs of tenderness, ok now *I'm* really excited about this, too. It sounds like she's bring out the best in you and I'm sure she also gets that from you. Very nice to hear!
quote:I didn't mean to suggest that the things I'm noticing are signs of incompatibility (long-term or otherwise). Most of the things I'm thinking of are areas in which, if we were to live together, I think that we'd really balance each other out well (I'm talking about really mundane stuff like the fact that I like to cook and she's lost in the kitchen, but she's really good at making a space nice whereas I'm completely lost in that arena). My concern is that if I'm thinking about how we'd work running a household together I'm short-changing what we have now (which also, I think, explains the negative vibe you got from my original message). How do I avoid jumping from, “I really like spending time with this girl” to “This is what our life together could look like?” As a general thing, is the latter something to avoid (just because one partner envisions things a certain way doesn't mean that both want to do things that way), or a helpful way to figure out what you want in a relationship so as to be able to more effectively talk about that with your partner?
OK, I see what you mean here ; sorry for jumping to conclusions! You know, what you're describing actually sounds quite natural -- as in human nature, not as in societal ideals-- for not just romantic relationships but in general. It's like, whether it's a friend or a partner visiting my residence, while they are certainly guests and I'm not expecting them to pick up a toilet brush or something, I would expect the common courtesy of offering to help cook or just not leave dishes everywhere! Obviously, it's a bit different when it's a romantic partnership but still I think the basics are the same but I don't see them as not being able to enjoy the here and now, at least personally for me. But I do think of people like Karl Marx, who wrote of societal ideals and equality yet had very unequal relationships with women with pretty much servitude on their parts, or Jean-Jacques Rousseau, who is hailed a father of modern pedagogy due to Emile yet whose own three children all ended up in orphanages due to neglect. I see stuff like working together around the house and thinking about how you complement each other to not be barfy examples of partnered 'domestic tranquilty' but rather philosophy-in-action.
quote:Writing this out has actually been really helpful. I think that my issue was largely that I was stressing myself out by not acknowledging what I'd like the relationship to be. Embracing those feelings, even knowing that they conflict with each of our feelings of needing to live "at home", goes a huge way towards allowing me to appreciate the time that we do have together.
Thanks for giving me the space to work through this and for sharing your own experiences and insights!
Hey, so glad it was helpful and I'd love to hear more of your experiences and ideas because they are really helpful and insightful to me! I think about how relationships, even non-traditional ones, are often about facing and dealing with challenges, seeing how we mesh -- emotionally, sexually, politically, spiritually, domestically, and more.
quote:Should you want to continue the relationship elsewhere, I'm positive you could find another country that would be acceptable to both of you where you could also find work... that's what I'd hope, at least!...I have found other, less traditionally-looking scenarios to work for me. They might for you, too, if you're interested...For example, you two stay in touch as friends with a sexual/romantic connection, too, and see each other occasionally (like a few times a year) but are free to date others....Hey, so glad it was helpful and I'd love to hear more of your experiences and ideas because they are really helpful and insightful to me!
I wasn't really sure how to respond to this so just kind of neglected it for a really long time; sorry about that and the fact that in trying to write something now it came out awfully rambly. There are a few points where, true as what you wrote is, it doesn't particularly apply for my girlfriend and myself. First of all, the issue isn't that I can't see myself living happily in her country but rather that neither one of us sees ourselves living happily in the long term anywhere other than our respective home countries. Given that said countries are separated by an ocean and a round trip plan ticket between them tends to cost at least $1000, seeing each other a few times a year just isn't financially feasible (certainly not for the next year or two as I'm just starting out professionally and she's still a student).
Our plan is to try to make the most of the time we have left together and transition to a platonic relationship once I leave in a couple months. That being said, we do recognize that one or both of our needs to live in our respective "motherlands" might change. Getting perspective on a place can make the things that bothered you while there not seem as important and bring to positives you'd overlooked, so I may find I miss this place once I'm gone. And also, I may find that living in the area with the bulk of the people with whom I feel closest isn't as nice as I'm imagining it will be. On her end, her perspective on living abroad may be unfairly colored by the fact that the only time she did so she was working as an au pair for her sister's newborn. She does want to live abroad again for a year or two at some point within the next few years (no sooner than two years from now), and may find when she does so that, with classmates and/or co-workers, she's not as homesick as she was the last time. All of this is a really long way of saying that we're open to the possibly that, if it works out that we'll be in the same area again and are both single, we may want to revisit whether we're both in a place where it makes sense to rekindle the relationship. But that's such a big unknown that we want to try to give ourselves the emotional space to be open to meeting other potential-partners. For all that relationships involve compromise, moving(/staying) a continent away from home is just not a compromise either of use can see ourself making right now.
Posts: 63 | From: DC, MA, IL, IS - changes every couple years | Registered: Dec 2008
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I want to reply to this in depth as I think it's a very good topic to discuss and have a lot to say, but I'd like to wait until I have a little more time and energy on my hands. Hope you're having a good week!
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