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» Scarleteen Boards: 2000 - 2014 (Archive) » SCARLETEEN CENTRAL » Bodies » Too jealous (Page 2)

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Author Topic: Too jealous
Stephanie_1
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So I see maybe not having the conversation with him when planned, but I'm not seeing not having the conversation at all. Do you not still think it's an important conversation to have? Sometimes other things do come up, but that's when we need to make doubly sure it's not covering over something else very important and pushing it out of sight out of mind so to speak. So maybe you discuss these feelings before going to the party, if you choose to?

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Ohana626
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Okay, so here's what went down tonight. As the night went on, Ricky and I ended up going for a walk, and we talked. He talked to be about his friend John, and how he was so happy to have a guy friend who accepted him for everything, including him being bi (John is straight). And he was saying how he's never had that kind of relationship with a guy before. And then he started talking about this girl Bri, who he really liked, but he wasn't going to do anything with because he's going down the shore tomorrow, and he knows he's gonna drink and hook up with girls. He told me that at this point, he doesn't want to be "tied down" and wants to hook up with people.

He also told me that he understood my position now, the whole liking someone who doesn't like you back. For a bit of time, he thought he liked John in a romantic way, but he doesn't; he just likes the guy relationship that they have. But he gets jealous when John is hanging out with other people and Ricky wasn't invited or doesn't know the people, etc. And so he told me he got that part of how I felt about him always being with John. And at this point, John and another girl Bern were with us (and there's a whole other story with Bern and Ricky and another guy, but that's not important, the point is that we all knew each other and all had...well, beef with each other, to a certain extent) And so Bern and I talked about Ricky lol and John and I talked, not about the subject at hand, but about his ex-girlfriend.

And at this point, Ricky had come back from his one on one with Bern, and I told him that I wanted to talk to him some more. I asked him then if when he said how he liked having someone who accepted him, he meant a boy, because I'VE been here for him this whole time. He told me that yes, he meant that. And we were talking about how John is his best friend now. And he was like "well....not..." and I just went "Dude." and looked at him, and he looked back at me, and I knew that John had taken my place, to an extent. But Ricky told me that his relationship with John didn't change our relationship. And he said he wanted me to hang out with him and john and others more often. The problem with this, and Ricky and I both acknowledged it tonight, was that the crowd that Ricky mostly hangs out with drink and do things like that, and that's not the scene that I'm usually involved in. So I don't know what's going to happen about that.

The last thing I said to him, before we left was "You know Ricky, I want you to be able to tell me stuff, but you know I like you, and it's hard when you talk about girls you're into." He told me that he understood because he now knew what it felt like to like someone who didn't like you back.

But after all this, he feels that something has been accomplished, and for him it probably has, but for me, it's still upsetting me. The whole situation. I felt like my chest was caving in on itself the whole time we were talking tonight.

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Ohana626
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I really don't want to sound annoying, but I've been kinda in a funk since Saturday night. I was wondering if anyone had any imput...mind, I don't know if I'll be accepting to it, considering my feelings right now, but still. please and thank you [Smile]
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Heather
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So sorry I overlooked this, Ohana. I'm around for a little while longer if you want to talk.

Want to fill me in on what you're feeling down about around this?

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Ohana626
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It's okay, thanks for replying Heather!

It's pretty much the same thing I've been upset about since the beginning. He doesn't like me. And it's also a bit annoying to like someone who's only interested in hooking up with people. We didn't talk about distance when we were together, partly because we needed to talk about other things, and partly because I knew we were going to have distance without talking about actually doing it. It's everything that I was upset about, right in the open; about how close he is with John, the way he used to be with me; about how he wants to hook up with people and not be tied down; about how this girl he'd been talking about makes him not think about being with guys (not that he's ashamed of being attracted to them, but he told me that he wants to get married and have a family, and I suppose how he sees that is the way with a husband and wife kind of way); about how when I told him that I liked him, so it was hard listening to him talk about girls, even though I wanted to be there for him, and he told me that he understood now what it felt like to like someone who doesn't like you back; the fact that he's never actually said that he doesn't like me, but what I just said above was enough, he doesn't even have to say it because we both know it's true; about how the crowd that he hangs out with isn't my normal scene, although sometimes I wish it could be, but it isn't much, and Ricky and I both know that, so hanging out is going to be harder now that all he wants to do is hang out with John; about how physically painful it was having these conversations with him, something I wasn't expecting to be so hard, but it was. And I'm not thinking about him very much, it's just that I'm not happy, and I thought it would be best to get over him, but I'm so painfully tempted to just kiss him the next time I see him...which will be I don't know when. And this whole paragraph has been running a marry-go-round in my head for two days now.

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Heather
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Can I make a suggestion?

I feel like it's possible some of your always feeling in the dumps around this guy has something to do with how passive you are with him much of the time. For instance, you didn't put asking for distance for YOU on the table FROM you. You said nothing, figuring it'd just happen from his end without you asking for it.

What that does, yet again, is kind of put all the power and direction in his court.

here's the thing: putting what YOU need out there, from you, even if the same result happens gives you a stake in it. It becomes something you also made happen and chose, rather than something only he made happen or chose.

Even with the conversation about him understanding how you feel, it sounds to me like he made it about him and you let him, rather than saying, "Great, now you get it. But this is about me, and I need to talk about my feelings, so what I'd really like is for you to just listen to me, hear me, and try and grok where I'm at even when it's not relevant to your personal experience."

Same goes with the crowd he's hanging out with now. If he knows that's not your scene, he can still choose to make time for you, or have some of those folks do what YOU like to do. And you can ask for that if he doesn't put that right out there (something I'd say most of us with a diverse group of friends often will).

Do you see what I mean by this? I mean, I totally get why this feels so awful, and there are some ways it does you can't control, even though you can cope with them. But I do think some of why they feel SO awful is about you seeming to always give this guy the driver's seat.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Ohana626
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I guess I didn't think about it like that. I never really fought with him before, so I never was fully aggressive, but I have been...passive-aggressive, come to think of it, once in awhile. I guess that's not such a good thing then. The thing with talking about myself is that it makes me feel like I'm centering myself for attention, even though I know I have to take care of myself.

But now that I get this, and want to talk to him about it, how can I? He's away for three weeks, plus we already talked a lot, and part of me thinks that me might not want to hear the same things being discussed again, although I think I'll need to make him listen. (another part of me knows that if I really need to talk, he'll listen)

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Heather
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I'm not suggesting you fight with him, just that you speak up for yourself and don't let what he wants, chooses, talks about and says lead everything.

That's not about making yourself the center of attention, it's about having you be in the picture AT ALL. In other words, if you never do things like that, it's kind of like you're not even there. Do you know what I mean? And no one who wants any kind of relationship with someone for real, be it a friendship, romance, whatever, that's really about both people wants the other person to really never be there, to never lead on their own, speak up for themselves, take the driver's seat.

If and when someone does seem like that's what they want, you have to know that what they're looking for is a doormat, basically.
I'm not sure what you mean about him hearing the same things that were discussed again, because it sounds to me like YOU didn't discuss them at all, right? I got the impression from your post about the other day that he did all the talking, and it was mostly all about him.

However, if the issue is that you don't feel like you'll even have the opportunity to talk for real for another three weeks because he's gone, maybe these three weeks are also the right time for you to choose to take your own space and dump some of the real estate he's taking up in your head, heart and life?

--------------------
Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Ohana626
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I can wipe him out repeatedly day to day, even a week or two, and I'll feel okay about him. But the trouble is when I see him again, it comes back. And I know that with this problem, the most healthy thing to do is to probably just cut him off, if every time I see him still results in me backtracking with my feelings for him. But I'm not willing yet to get rid of him.

(Part of me thinks that maybe I should cut him off, but these thoughts aren't very well thought out, because they also include me kissing him before I cut him off.)

But I guess next time we get to be in person with each other, I'm going to have to lead the conversation. It's just hard for me because I get choked up; the words are right there, but it feels like they're lodged in my throat.

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Heather
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Have you ever tried writing what you want to say out in a letter instead? Heck, given the timing with his being away, this might be just the right opportunity to try that instead.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Ohana626
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I could do that. I'm better at writing my thoughts then saying them out loud. The thing with that is, I feel like I'd need to be in person with him, sit while he reads the letter, and actually make him respond. I was making fun of him with John by telling John to prepare if he hasn't already for conversations with Ricky. Saturday, John showed Ricky a text he got, and Ricky looked at it, but didn't respond, and John was like '....ummm..well?" it was a little funny, and it made me laugh, because I was so used to it. I started warning John that he could very well tell Ricky something that's important, and when he's done talking, Ricky will say something totally irrelevant that was floating in his own mind. What's crazy is that Ricky does listen, he just doesn't always respond...at least, not right away. I've said things to him, he doesn't respond much, but then a week later he brings it up, and I'm always surprised. Ricky openly admits this about himself, so at least he's aware of it...
So if I gave him the letter, he would read it, but not say anything to be about it. And if it was online, he wouldn't say much either, because he is bad at talking about serious things in letters/messages. So we'd need to compromise; we'd get together, I'd give him the written letter from me, have him read it, and then let him reply in person, which he is better at than online....is this a silly idea?

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Heather
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You know, you can't make someone respond. In fact, I'd say that's actually pretty uncool.

All you can do, all any of us can do, is out what we feel and think out there, and then the other person or people get to choose to respond or not.

So, if he chooses not to respond, or in a timely manner, that's what he chooses. And he's allowed to make that choice, and you need to be able to accept that if he does, rather than trying to control his response (or lack thereof).

Am I missing something? In other words, am I not getting why you feel you must only communicate in ways (even though this doesn't seem to be working so far) in which you feel he MUST respond?

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Ohana626
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I feel like he should respond because he already knows that I like him, and since I don't make it annoyingly obvious when we're hanging out, he never seems to worry about it. He understands, so he tells me, but it seems like that doesn't make a difference. And I know I know, all this makes him seem like a bad guy, so I guess I should tell him that's how I feel sometimes too. It's just...I'd like his response, I want it.
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Heather
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But do you want it even if you have to basically force it? Is it meaningful if the only way you can get it is by giving him no choice but to respond?

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Ohana626
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Well, I suppose not. But I think I'm going to tell him anyway, most probably though writing because that how I can get my point best across. Whether he decides to respond or not is his own choice, but should I not bother trying at all?
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Heather
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I think it's clear you're not just going to let go of this relationship and move away from it, or at least radically detach yourself, very soon.

That given, I personally think it's important you actually make yourself present in it and an actual part of it, where you do things like speak up for yourself, take the driver's seat sometimes, and don't just acquiesce to whatever this guy wants, this guy says, and what time this guy is willing to make for you, all on his terms, and not at all on yours.

So, if letter-writing is how you can actually take a step to do that, I think that'd be a good and important thing for you to do. I think it's equally important you just do that and allow him the choice to respond or not -- and cope and work it out, however the chips may fall -- rather than try to control or manipulate the situation in a passive-aggressive way. I think both of those things involve being very truthful and very real about the reality of this relationship rather than the ideal, the fantasy, the enabling or the wishful thinking.

Know what I mean by all that?

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Ohana626
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Yes, I agree. I've never been one for wanting to make a situation difficult, but as my one friend told me the other day, I'm very selfish. So I guess sometimes I worry about making my opinions and desires into reality (the ones that can be made, of course) is a selfish thing.

I think I am going to write out how I feel. I think part of the problem is that I always let him have his way, because I liked making him happy. I like seeing him happy, but of course I like him, so I want to see him happy all the time.

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Heather
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I don't see anything selfish in here. It might help to realize that when we talk about selflessness as being virtuous, we're not talking about someone literally not being THERE; literally not putting their self, in a real, honest way, into things they're part of.

I also think it might help -- and writing this might help you with that -- to maybe try and think about if it's about making happy or about mollifying him and/or only doing things in the way HE wants because you think that's the only way he'll let you stick around.

I know, by the way, that all of this stuff is rough to deal with and look at, so please know that I'm not suggesting any of this is fun or easy. It sounds like you've kind of co-created something very emotionally intense for you, but also very emotionally.....well, yucky, in a whole lot of ways, but that it's clear you so, so wish was different. I know all of that sucks, in the biggest way, and is hard. I just also think that when it all comes out in the wash, it's going to be a lot easier and healthier than the alternative, and leave you a lot more likely to be happier in your life.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Ohana626
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I don't think that he would be unwilling to talk and listen with me; I think he wants me around, and not because I cater to him; he'll accept me for anything.

however, I do sometimes feel this irrational apprehension that he won't want to hear what I have to say, and will be tired from it. He hasn't done anything to confirm this feeling, it's something that I feel on my own. I'm going to write though, I'm writing right now, so I hope that I can get everything out, and I know that if I ask him to read it, he will, and will take it in. I just don't know if he'll respond...but I'm going to mention that in the letter, because it is something that bothers me sometimes.

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Heather
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There you go! See: asking for a response, saying "Hey, I need you to respond to this. Let's say in the next X days, and if you don't feel able to in that timeframe, you'll at least let me know that in that timeframe, okay?" -- this is one of those awesome active things you can do to put what you want, to put YOU, in the picture in a way that is totally sound.

(Mind, I DO think he has done things to confirm that feeling, you've posted about quite a lot of them. But I'd say that's a side-topic, because you writing this letter candidly and honestly and putting it out there without trying to control the outcome strikes me as important regardless.)

[ 06-13-2011, 09:22 PM: Message edited by: Heather ]

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Ohana626
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What feeling are you referring to when you said:
"Mind, I DO think he has done things to confirm that feeling"?

Yes, at the end of the letter, I'm going to say something along what you said. But I'm not going to press. The only thing I will do is ask him to read it, and I know he will if I ask.

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Ohana626
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I finished writing what I wanted to say....it's 5 pages. I feel like a freak for having 5 pages of stuff I want to tell him, like it's too much.
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Heather
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I'm not surprised you had that much to say, because it has been sounding like there's a lot you haven't voiced.

I think it's great you were able to write so much down.

If you don't want to send all of that at once, that's okay: you can edit the letter so that it's shorter, or maybe starts with a few of the biggest issues, with you being able to write more or talk more about the others later.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Ohana626
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Well, I think if I do that, I'll forget, or it will start to become too much. I think I'm going to just send it all at once.

What feeling are you referring to when you said:
"Mind, I DO think he has done things to confirm that feeling"?

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Heather
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It's up to you, but you know, when we edit things, we can always save the original. I don't think there's anything bad or good about the length, that's up to you, but it's not like you have to burn what you already wrote if you choose to edit because you don't feel comfortable with the length.

What I meant is that you've posted a lot here already about how hard you clearly have to work to get or keep this person's attention, how inflexible he seems to be with you unless you do things his way or on his schedule, etc. Even in this post, you came in wanting to talk about something that was an issue for you, and it sounds a whole lot like he flipped it around and made it about his issue with this other guy; made it about him.

So, while I hear you say a lot that you're very sure he'll do X, Y or Z if you just ask him, sometimes those statements feel conflicting with the actual actions and words and dynamics that have occurred with him that you post about.

In other words, again, I don't think this is all in your head, this feeling he might not be responsive to you, or really get invested in what you want or need. I think that it's likely a lot of that feeling is based on his showing you, quite clearly sometimes, that that's a valid concern.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Ohana626
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Well that's partly my fault that I let it become his issue. In all honesty, I was curious, so I let him talk. It was my own doing that he got the drivers seat that time.

And the problem with him is that, yes I've asked him to do things and he'll do them, but sometimes he won't, so it's back and fourth.

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Heather
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I'm certainly not saying there are likely ways both of you have contributed to this dynamic. But I don't think it's all on you. After all, he's not a toddler who needs your direction to do things like realize he's making conversations all about him, realizing he's directing the show much of the time, realizing he's not exactly leaving a lot of room for you. He, like you, has the capacity and the ability to notice these things, talk about them, and make efforts to change them.

So, with you stepping it up by advocating for yourself more strongly with something like this letter, you can perhaps get a better idea, though, of how much that's just about your own behavior, and how much it's also about his.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Ohana626
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Yeah, I'm hoping that telling him about everything I've been feeling will help.
Thank you for your advice and input, Heather [Smile]

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Heather
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Happy to help you out how I can. [Smile]

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

Posts: 68290 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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