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I think the worst quality about me is my jealously. I've had it as long as I can remember, and it was never over material things, and when I felt it, I rarely acted on it, but it really eats at me whenever I feel it.
I've liked my friend Ricky for over a year now, and he doesn't like me back. He knows I like him, and is okay with it. But Ricky is...he's very social. For example, when he called me when he got home from his music trip, he was telling me about these "gorgeous girls" that he was flirting with and dancing with, and twice during two different phone conversations he had said "So I hooked up with this really hot girl today." Obviously, since I'm not into that kind of thing, it leads me to know that he's not a good match for me, but of course, my brain and heart don't match up, and I get very jealous when he talks like this. I even get jealous when he talks about his band members, particularly his new friend John. I don't say anything, or act upon it, it just hurts me. It's like a sock to the stomach. And I know the best thing to get rid of this is to get over him, but it's so hard. I've been wanting to for months, and I just can't manage it. I want to get over him, but I want to stay friends with him too, and my usual method of getting over a guy means not seeing him again.
I don't really know what to do.
Posts: 187 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2011
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Honestly, while it may well be that you have issues with jealousy, I think this sounds like your friend is being really insensitive to feelings he knows you have. In other words, I think that the kinds of comments he's making and things he'd sharing would make anyone in a similar position to you feel like crud.
So, we can talk about dealing with jealousy in general if you want to, but is it happening for you in more than around this one person right now? If not, it sounds like it might be more useful to talk about how to set boundaries with this person and...well, ask him to have some.
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63428 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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It'd probably be better to talk about the latter, since this is the only thing right now that's really getting me jealous to the point of unhappiness.
The thing with Ricky is that he was always able to tell me anything, that's just how our friendship was, we shared everything, so to ask him to refrain from telling me things going on in his life, even like this, feels like we'd have to build a wall or something...make the friendship more...cautious.
Posts: 187 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2011
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I don't think healthy, needed boundaries are walls or barriers.
Quite the opposite. I think they allow people the emotional safety they need in order to feel comfortable with someone.
Don't you think the feelings you're having create more of a barrier than having him simply be respectful of the feelings you're struggling with would?
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63428 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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Yes, I do think that, and it is, actually....on my side, though, because I feel like he doesn't notice...because, in all honesty, I don't show it to him often, especially in person, because when I'm with him, I don't feel jealous.
But I feel like if he refrained from telling me those things...it's not like he wouldn't be doing them, I just wouldn't know. And a part of me doesn't like that. I don't like not knowing things.
Posts: 187 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2011
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Here's the thing: do you want to feel like this? Do you want to get upset about something that wound understandably upset most people in your situation, or stay silent when you are upset, rather than working on adjusting some things together so your relationship was something that made you feel less crappy? That also was healthier (because again, no boundaries usually isn't healthy, and it's also clearly not working out for you)?
Why not give it a shot and see if having some boundaries helps? It can't hurt, after all.
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63428 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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I don't want to feel hurt like this, you're right. And the way you put it, it is a better idea to ask for the boundaries. I'm a little afraid though, that he'll...be unhappy. A mutual friend of ours has liked him too, but she...well, I don't know all the details, but I guess she showed it more than me, and Ricky was kinda sad because he "just wanted a friend." I felt he was being a little inconsiderate, but the end point was that he was sad that this girl liked him to the point of a problem, and it made things awkward for them for awhile. When I asked him if he was okay with me liking him, he said yes because, and I quote, "you don't blow it out of proportion" and he was better with me because (in his words)"me and her were never on the level that me and you are on yah know we arent as close as us i trust you a million more times than her". I'm afraid that this will mess up his end of the friendship, and will make him unhappy.
Posts: 187 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2011
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You're unhappy right now, though, and clearly have been for awhile. If this guy is a good friend and really cares about you as much as you say he does, he'll respect your feelings and realize that friendships change over time, just like all relationships, and this doesn't mean you don't care about him.
As Heather said, boundaries are a key part of any healthy relationship. Another key part is both parties feeling like they're on equal footing: right now, you're putting his needs and his feelings ahead of yours, whereas it's pretty likely that with some talking and negotiation, you can get to a point where you're both comfortable.
-------------------- "Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing." -Arundhati Roy Posts: 5329 | From: Canada/Australia | Registered: Sep 2004
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I want to set boundaries, but out of habit I've put his interests before mine, so now it's harder to stop doing that. I want to make sure he knows that I still care about him as much as I always have, and that I want him to be able to confide in me when he wants to, but that we do need boundaries. How should I go about doing this then?
Posts: 187 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2011
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I need to get gone from here so I'm done working for the day, so hopefully it's okay for us to continue this tomorrow.
But before we do, I want to voice what seems to me like a pattern in this relationship where you not only do put this person's interests and whole being ahead of you,, but where it also seems like you just don't call him out on things or ask for the things YOU need. Doing that isn't about not caring for someone: it's just about caring for you AND them, and not doing things for them at your expense which don't really benefit them in the first place. Do you know what I mean?
If so, would you agree that this relationship seems pretty off-balance in terms of both of you looking out for each other and both of you making efforts to assure the other's comfort?
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63428 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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Gosh he's so frustrating. I mean, it's just me, but still. I just got off the phone with him. He's going down the shore for a month starting Sunday, and he wants to hang out Saturday, so of course I said yes. But we're talking on the phone while he and his new friend John are hanging out, which they have been so often lately because they're in their band together, so I felt a little jealous about that, but it's nothing Ricky should stop doing because he obviously should be able to have whatever friends he wants. It's my own problem that I'm getting jealous about this. But then he says this and it's like he's reminding me how he cares about me. He's owed me $70 since November, and he's had my nard glasses since...February, I think. And he said that he has both for me now, and will give them to me Saturday. And I go "ohmygosh I love you" and he says "wait, you love me because I'm paying you back? Aren't we supposed to love each other unconditionally?" and I go "no, you're only supposed to love your husband unconditionally." and he goes "AND your brothers and sisters...and you're like a sister to me, so we love each other unconditionally." And he was so intense in this whole thing that I started laughing and told him that okay, we love each other both unconditionally. See, he shows his love for me in random bursts like that. Sometimes it seems like he doesn't care, but it's probably just how I'm seeing it, because then he does things like this and shows that he really still loves me, even with making new friends and being busy and not being able to see me as often as we used to.
Posts: 187 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2011
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I liked Stan for four years. He never looked twice at me. I wanted to do everything I could for him, and since he didn't need much, the most I could do was listen. Nobody else had the time/desire to do so. When he talked, he talked about the girl(s) he liked. He knew I liked him, but I don't think he grasped the magnitude of it. "You're smart, beautiful, and kind, but you're not a GIRL to me. You don't have that spark that automatically puts other girls in the category above. You're like my sister."
I kind of was. I was there for him no matter what. He took it for granted that I would be there, but when I needed a friend, I felt like he was indifferent. In fact, he could usually take me or leave me. I spent years doing all I could for someone who didn't want what I had to give.
The worst part, or at least the part I'm still getting over, was the blow to my ego. He would always tell me which girl he liked, and I would watch the girl and think, "I'll never have big brown doe eyes like her" or "I'll never sing like her" or "I could never be that vivacious." I was jealous. I got a little obsessed with my looks and tried to streamline my personality.
At the same time I was pushing away from Stanley the only way I knew how. I bullied him, was alternately flippant and cruel, and refused to have serious, or even friendly, conversations. This surprised me. I didn't know I could be so mean.
He was confused, then angry. He said he couldn't keep being friends with me if I forced that many ups and downs on him. I told him I was surprised he cared.
Stan and I didn't speak for a few weeks. When we started talking again, it was careful, businesslike conversation. Slowly he went back to being his old jokey self. But I felt like there was a huge wall inside me and the things he said ran into the wall and fell silent before they reached my core. When he brought up girls I said "Oh" or "Hm" or "Is that so?" like a person trying to feign interest.
Then, the most divine timing- a new boy was actually going out of his way to get me! The poor guy- I was not interested and didn't care whether he knew. An ignoring-game ensued until he asked me out on a real date, at which point I had to come out and say either yes or no. I said yes. I didn't think anything significant would happen, but I thought it would be nice to be the object of some guy's romantic attention.
It didn't exactly turn out how I expected. The more I got to know him, the better I liked him. He was brilliant and we thought the same things were funny. Speaking to him always fascinated me. He was attractive in an "at first he's kinda funny looking but then he gets hotter and hotter," Rick Moranis-ish way, but if Rick Moranis was over six feet tall. But gentler than Rick Moranis. I can't explain.
He opened doors for me and listened attentively when I spoke and gave me presents. He treated me like a princess. I prized his love more than all that; after four years of being treated tepidly, the warmth I felt coming from my new boyfriend- was the nicest thing I've ever experienced. Until then, I'd never cried from happiness.
I hadn't felt like I was worthy of love. But sometimes when I'm hemming in my personality (believe it or not, I'm a quiet person), he'll sense it, and look at me sideways, and say, "Why don't you say what's on your mind? The more you you are, the more I have to love."
I know that story was long, but your situation reminded me of it. I can sympathize with you. By the way- Stan & I did (by some miracle) survive as friends, and we are closer now because our friendship isn't so one-sided.
-------------------- ♥♥♥ Posts: 69 | From: America | Registered: Aug 2010
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Ohana626: so maybe Saturday is the day to talk about setting some boundaries?
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63428 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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Heather: Yes, I do plan on talking to him about this on Saturday.
luanne: You have no idea how hard your story hit me, because it's almost painfully identical to mine.(Although thankfully, I can say that based on your description of Stan, Ricky is more willing to be there for me and be open with me, and I know he really cares about me. I just never really needed him to give me certain attention because a lot of the time I got it, and then sometimes when I felt like I wanted more or felt like he was all of a sudden not around, I was a little afraid to ask, because I didn't want to seem clingy, and knew I had to keep in mind that I wasn't his only friend. A lot of my problems are because of how I act, not him.)
But the paragraph where you talk about your ego...that's kind of happening to me now. I'm a little overweight, and usually I'm not upset about it, I'm most often very comfortable in my body. But when I started thinking about how Ricky only seems interested in "gorgeous" girls, I suddenly felt very fat, and not outgoing enough for him (which is why I was so attracted to him in the first place; I hope someday to find a boyfriend who is more outgoing than me, because I need someone who will pull me out of my social comfort zone a little. Ricky did that with me over the past year, and I made so many new friends and gained more confidence in public.) But that's how I think sometimes. "She's such a better singer, no wonder he thinks she's so hot." or "Gosh look at her dance with him. I could never do that."
My problem is that I'm not often interested in a relationship. I could have had one with Pat, but I just didn't like him enough for it. And it's not to say that I'm not up for it, and I really do hope I'm not as picky as it seems, it's just that....I know when I like a guy, almost right away. It just happens. I guess I'm just worried because this is the second time I've turned down a guy, and I've yet to have a boyfriend. Is it really bad to be like this? I feel bad sometimes, because there are a few things in a guy that I really want a boyfriend to have; be more outgoing than me, funny, well-dressed (in my view). But as for the more outgoing, the guys who have that have never been interested in me. I'm willing to wait to find someone like that who is, but what if we never find each other? Should I lower what I want in a guy? Because I really don't think I can do that. I think I'd rather be single than be with someone I'm not interested in, and to be honest, I'm not really a person who would complain about not having a boyfriend, because I know it'd be my own choice. (Sorry I strayed from the topic, but everything I said here runs though my head when I'm thinking about my problems with Ricky)
Posts: 187 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2011
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Do you need help in having that conversation?
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63428 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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First thing first, I'd think about what you want and need here. For instance, it's clear that him telling you who he's hooking up with, especially with the way he's talking about it (with details that are really insensitive, given your feelings) is one boundary you need and that's totally valid to ask for. Can you think of any others?
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63428 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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What you said is definitely the number one topic.
Assuming he is telling the truth in that he'll have the money he owes me and my glasses back, then nothing on that. But if he doesn't, I'm really going to have to talk to him about that.
I think what you said is about it...sometimes I feel like I'm not getting enough attention from him, but when I step back and look objectively at it, it's not that I'm not getting enough attention, it's that I've been used to him wanting to call me multiple times every day, and then all of a sudden, he doesn't do that anymore. Our relationship hasn't weakened from it, but I feel like I'm losing him, even though I know in my brain that I'm not. I don't talk to my other friends every day, so he's just become more like all my other friends. It's just that he didn't used to be, and I just have to get used to that. That one is my own problem, and I don't expect that he has to do anything about it, because he shouldn't have to shower me with attention all the time.
Posts: 187 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2011
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It seems to me you have two important things to do for yourself here, one which involves asking something of him, one which involves asking something of yourself.
1) You ask for some healthier boundaries. For example, around him talking about his sexual partners, you can say something like, "Hey: I know you know about the feelings I have for you. I've been working hard on separating myself from them both for the sake of our friendship and in taking care of myself. But I need you to do some things, too, to do the same. For example, can you please not talk to me about your sexual partners as if I were a locker room buddy? Hearing about how "hot" your partners are and such, having you talk to me like that, hurts my feelings."
2) You're on it with making some of your own adjustments so that you aren't treating this guy like a serious partner. You want him to be that: he clearly doesn't want the same thing. So, you need to accept that and change how you go about the relationship yourself, in a way which is reflective of a friendship, one that is sometimes emotionally close, but perhaps less so than it used to be, and which perhaps may be better for you that way, anyhow. So, you try and work on that acceptance, but maybe also work to deepen some of your other friendships so you are not so dependent on this one. Know what I mean?
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63428 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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1) That's perfect, thank you. I really do need to make sure he understand how I'm seeing how he talks. Is it okay if I say some of the things you said here to him? (what you said in your quote)
2)I am trying to do that, and it's on and off working. Some days I'll feel fine about how we are, I'm getting used to not talking to him every day, I'm learning. But some days it just hurts. So I need to work in it a little more. The main thing that gets me here was that, although he never liked me as more than a friend, sometimes it seemed like he did...rather, he acted like it. Like he called me all the time, wanted to hang out with me all the time, wanted me to go with him places. (Now I'm beginning to notice he does this with everyone who he becomes close with. Aka: He hangs out with his new friend John all the time) So I hope you can understand the bit of emotional confusion that I'm having now that he's not acting like that anymore haha. I know he still cares about me the same, just doesn't need me around as much as he once did. But I do agree that the amount of contact that we're having now is a bit more...normal, although a little more contact would be nice (not a ton, just seeing each other a tiny bit more than we have, but if not I'll have to accept that) And since I have been making new friends, I am able to focus on them whenever I want. My friend Dave and I are very close (but neither of us have any romantic interest in each other, which I'm really happy for) and we talk about...everything, actually. From my problems with Ricky to his desire to lose his virginity to how we shave (it sounds weird, but honestly it's not) but I don't feel the...attachment that I've felt for Ricky, so that's nice too. We're just very comfortable. Same with all my girl friends, who are always willing to chat and hang out.
Posts: 187 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2011
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By all means, if my words work for you, take'em, they're yours.
I certainly understand how confusing this must all feel.
But I think where it's so easy to get stuck in dynamics and situations like this is to get so attached to how we felt and what we wanted that we won't or don't change how we're approaching it to take care of ourselves best. How we feel about someone -- and want them to feel back -- and what we want not only isn't always possible, it also isn't always what's best for us.
Personally, I actually think a little more space between you, not less, would probably be what's best for you. But you're the expert of you, not me. That's only my opinion as an outsider in all of this.
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63428 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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I think I understand what you're saying here. How I've always felt for him is interfering with how I should be interacting with him now?
I think that the space that's been happening is good for my feelings for him, but I'm a little afraid that if there's too much space, then we'll start losing the friendship. What medium can be reached so that I can get over him, but still maintain the friendship? Because, my feels aside, he's a cool guy and a good friend, and I'd like to keep him around. What I really want is to not like him anymore and for us to just be friends.
Posts: 187 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2011
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You know, it's pretty common that the older you get, the more and more long-distance friends you have. People move a lot when we get older. As well, the more and more responsibilities we get. For instance, a lot of my friends have kids.
When that happens, when it even starts to, that thing where friends can talk a bunch of times a day? That's usually toast. For instance, while I used to live withmy very best friend, we're now thousands of miles apart. She has a kid. I run this org. So, we talk around once a week, and have visits around two times a year. But we are still every bit as close, because closeness really isn't about how much we see or talk to each other: closeness is about how close we are when we do, and how we feel about each other. Know what I mean?
So, seeing Ricky less than you used to doesn't have to mean you're any less close.
At the same time, I think some of what you're thinking about as closeness -- not all, just some -- seems more to me like a fairly one-sided enmeshment. This link (there's a photo I find really disturbing at it, sorry about that) does a good job of explaining that: http://www.lucreid.com/?p=1890
And enmeshment is something we always want to work to move AWAY from, not hold on to, because it's just not good for us.
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63428 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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I just read that article you posted, Heather....and it's pretty accurate. I don't know if I have it as bad as the article describes, but I certainly seem to have this to a certain degree. For Ricky (and even my mom sometimes too, but that's a different story) I do things that they want me to do. For Ricky, I do it because I know it'll make him happy (unless it's something I really don't want to do, and then I tell him no, of course) and for my mother, because she wants me to.
....You know what? I've been scared that if Ricky and I lost more contact, then we'd stop being friends. But this happened to me with another friend. Her name is Laura, and I had this attachment to her as well. But then I met Ricky, and it shifted. Now Laura is in college, so we don't talk or see each other often...but I just saw her about three days ago, and it wasn't awkward or anything. In fact, it was just as normal as it always has been. So now I can see from my own experience that lack of contact does not mean lack of friendship.
My question now is...I don't want to cut him off, block him out, because that does mean that I'm putting him out of my life. How can I go about lessening the contact without breaking the friendship? Because when something good happens or I have something I want to share, I'll call him. I don't want to have to stop doing that for the sake of getting over him. (for example, I called him last night to share something good that happened to me, and he shared my excitement. We didn't stay on the phone long, maybe about 15 minutes, but I just felt normal, like he was just a friend, and I didn't feel this longing to stay on the phone...I did feel a little jealous of him hanging with John so much, but that's because we haven't hung out together in a long time)
Posts: 187 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2011
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For instance, how about every other time you want to call him to share something, you call a different friend?
It might also help to start doing some thinking about how invested it seems like you are in pleasing people or getting their approval (which is probably more the issue than people being made happy, if you catch my drift). You've expressed having some issues with low self-esteem before: this is probably part of the deal. Have you looked into getting any help or doing anything to raise your own esteem?
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63428 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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That's a good idea, actually. But it does happen that I end up sharing good news with pretty much all of my friends, so I would end up telling Ricky at some point. Is that okay to do, just if I start by telling other people before him?
It's not everybody that I want to get approval from, only certain people, but I suppose either way, that's a problem. And I never thought about doing anything, because I never considered it a problem. When I'm with my girlfriends, I feel very secure about myself. I can tease myself good-naturedly, and in general, I think I'm kind of pretty. It's only when my mom gets on me about wearing makeup (which I'm now wearing, but moving at my own pace; she wants me to wear mascara, and I don't want to. I will when I want to) and when Ricky talks to me about really pretty girls, that I feel down on myself. I feel that once I'm thought with Ricky in that way, I won't have that problem. It's more like I'm sad that I'm not the physical description that he is attracted to.
Posts: 187 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2011
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With the other thing, maybe think about what people you almost always feel very good with, and who you don't, especially around pleasing? In other words, who is it that when you seem not to please them or get their approval, you feel totally gutted or bad about yourself? On the other hand, with whom do you worry about that a lot less, or have it just kind of roll off of you, being no big deal? With whom do you feel you can just be yourself, without trying very hard or agonizing about it, and generally feel very good?
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63428 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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That's all of my friends. Nobody makes me feel like I have to be something I'm not. When I was younger, I tried to be someone I wasn't, but then realized that I can't do that, so I'm just myself, and my friends either are happy with that, or they aren't my friends. None of them make me feel like I have to be something I don't.
In Ricky's case, it's because I like him that I want to please him, because when we're hanging out, I can totally be myself and be comfortable the way I am, because he doesn't judge me (he's just not into me romantically). For a long time, I liked how he wanted me around, so when he wanted to do something, I'd do it with him, because he wanted me to. But if I never liked him, I might still have gone with what he wanted simply because it'd be fun to hang out, just like any other friend, but if I didn't want to, I'd let him know. But to be honest, he didn't often want me to do something that I was uncomfortable with. I was just eager to be a part of his activities.
Posts: 187 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2011
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I'm not really asking if anyone *makes* you feel those ways, just if you do or don't feel those ways with certain friends. For instance, throughout all your posts about Ricky, you seem to often express that you don't feel very good about yourself with him very often.
You say you want to please him so much because you like him, but I assume you also like your other friends?
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63428 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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When I say like, I meant romantically with Ricky.
As for my previous posts, these feelings come and go. When I'm with him and talking to him, he's a good friend and we have fun together and are completely ourselves and very comfortable with each other. It's just when I'm alone and missing him and when he tells me about girls he likes that I feel bad. But he's never called me ugly or fat or...any negative term, actually. He's always talking positive, he never once talked me down. I do feel good when I'm with him, it's because I wish he was romantically interested in me that sometimes I feel down when it comes to him.
Posts: 187 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2011
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Again, I really think allowing the space that he's made to also be space you're making is going to help you out here.
It's really hard to see, sometimes, the effects a given relationship can have on us when we're still in it or super-attached to it. I think if you can take some of these baby steps to make this guy less the center of your universe, your friendship will benefit from it and you're going to start feeling a lot better.
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63428 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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I'm going to do that, and with him going to college and me being involved in a lot of stuff at my school next year, it'll be easier to keep busy and focused on other things. I am going to let the space between us work to my advantage. But my question is should I be trying to make space, or just let it happen naturally? For example, Ricky is going down the shore for a month, so I won't see him, and probably not talk to him, and then he has his music camp every day, so talking will be less because of that. But if he calls, should I cut the convo short? Should I also stop calling him myself? If so, I should let him know about this, because I don't want him to think that I don't want to be his friend anymore.
Posts: 187 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2011
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You know, this person is your friend, so I don't see why you can't voice these things.
In other words, maybe some of what you also talk about on Saturday is this. You can talk about how he's clearly been making some space, and you think that you should be doing the same. You can make clear that's not about you not wanting to be friends, but more about you wanting to a) make sure this a healthy closeness, not an enmeshment and b) how this is also about you working to separate your romantic feelings from your feelings of loving friendship.
With the calls, again, how about just taking that step to try and call other friends a little more, and Ricky a little less? Or, making sure that you're not only talking when it's convenient for him, and only him, but also when it is for you? So, for instance, if he calls when you have time and aren't doing something else, talk as much as you like. But if he calls at times when you're busy or talking to someone else, you can always call him back later.
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63428 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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Okay, yes. I'll talk to him about everything you mentioned, because that's exactly how I feel about it. And as for the calling, that makes sense. I have been calling him less, more so because I know he's rarely been able to talk, so I just stopped bothering unless I had something I wanted to shore with him or tell him.
Posts: 187 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2011
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So I can't have the conversation with him. He texts me today telling me that he forgot that he has a graduation party he's going to. So I was so angry, and I still am, but he wants me to go with him, so he's seeing if he can arrange a ride for me. I'm friends with the graduate, so it's cool, and Ricky really wants to hang out with me, it's just....I just got so angry. I mean, it's not like I need it to just be the two of us all the time, but...I don't know when just chilling stopped being enough for him, because it feels like we're never actually going to do that anymore. Part of me wants to not go, but other friends of mine are going to be there, so I'm hoping I do get to go, but I don't know. I'm more upset about this whole thing than I should. It's kind of like I knew something was going to happen.
Posts: 187 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2011
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So I see maybe not having the conversation with him when planned, but I'm not seeing not having the conversation at all. Do you not still think it's an important conversation to have? Sometimes other things do come up, but that's when we need to make doubly sure it's not covering over something else very important and pushing it out of sight out of mind so to speak. So maybe you discuss these feelings before going to the party, if you choose to?
-------------------- "Sometimes the majority only means that all the fools are on the same side" ~Anon Posts: 3365 | From: Pennsylvania | Registered: Jan 2008
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Okay, so here's what went down tonight. As the night went on, Ricky and I ended up going for a walk, and we talked. He talked to be about his friend John, and how he was so happy to have a guy friend who accepted him for everything, including him being bi (John is straight). And he was saying how he's never had that kind of relationship with a guy before. And then he started talking about this girl Bri, who he really liked, but he wasn't going to do anything with because he's going down the shore tomorrow, and he knows he's gonna drink and hook up with girls. He told me that at this point, he doesn't want to be "tied down" and wants to hook up with people.
He also told me that he understood my position now, the whole liking someone who doesn't like you back. For a bit of time, he thought he liked John in a romantic way, but he doesn't; he just likes the guy relationship that they have. But he gets jealous when John is hanging out with other people and Ricky wasn't invited or doesn't know the people, etc. And so he told me he got that part of how I felt about him always being with John. And at this point, John and another girl Bern were with us (and there's a whole other story with Bern and Ricky and another guy, but that's not important, the point is that we all knew each other and all had...well, beef with each other, to a certain extent) And so Bern and I talked about Ricky lol and John and I talked, not about the subject at hand, but about his ex-girlfriend.
And at this point, Ricky had come back from his one on one with Bern, and I told him that I wanted to talk to him some more. I asked him then if when he said how he liked having someone who accepted him, he meant a boy, because I'VE been here for him this whole time. He told me that yes, he meant that. And we were talking about how John is his best friend now. And he was like "well....not..." and I just went "Dude." and looked at him, and he looked back at me, and I knew that John had taken my place, to an extent. But Ricky told me that his relationship with John didn't change our relationship. And he said he wanted me to hang out with him and john and others more often. The problem with this, and Ricky and I both acknowledged it tonight, was that the crowd that Ricky mostly hangs out with drink and do things like that, and that's not the scene that I'm usually involved in. So I don't know what's going to happen about that.
The last thing I said to him, before we left was "You know Ricky, I want you to be able to tell me stuff, but you know I like you, and it's hard when you talk about girls you're into." He told me that he understood because he now knew what it felt like to like someone who didn't like you back.
But after all this, he feels that something has been accomplished, and for him it probably has, but for me, it's still upsetting me. The whole situation. I felt like my chest was caving in on itself the whole time we were talking tonight.
Posts: 187 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2011
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I really don't want to sound annoying, but I've been kinda in a funk since Saturday night. I was wondering if anyone had any imput...mind, I don't know if I'll be accepting to it, considering my feelings right now, but still. please and thank you Posts: 187 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2011
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So sorry I overlooked this, Ohana. I'm around for a little while longer if you want to talk.
Want to fill me in on what you're feeling down about around this?
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63428 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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It's pretty much the same thing I've been upset about since the beginning. He doesn't like me. And it's also a bit annoying to like someone who's only interested in hooking up with people. We didn't talk about distance when we were together, partly because we needed to talk about other things, and partly because I knew we were going to have distance without talking about actually doing it. It's everything that I was upset about, right in the open; about how close he is with John, the way he used to be with me; about how he wants to hook up with people and not be tied down; about how this girl he'd been talking about makes him not think about being with guys (not that he's ashamed of being attracted to them, but he told me that he wants to get married and have a family, and I suppose how he sees that is the way with a husband and wife kind of way); about how when I told him that I liked him, so it was hard listening to him talk about girls, even though I wanted to be there for him, and he told me that he understood now what it felt like to like someone who doesn't like you back; the fact that he's never actually said that he doesn't like me, but what I just said above was enough, he doesn't even have to say it because we both know it's true; about how the crowd that he hangs out with isn't my normal scene, although sometimes I wish it could be, but it isn't much, and Ricky and I both know that, so hanging out is going to be harder now that all he wants to do is hang out with John; about how physically painful it was having these conversations with him, something I wasn't expecting to be so hard, but it was. And I'm not thinking about him very much, it's just that I'm not happy, and I thought it would be best to get over him, but I'm so painfully tempted to just kiss him the next time I see him...which will be I don't know when. And this whole paragraph has been running a marry-go-round in my head for two days now.
Posts: 187 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2011
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I feel like it's possible some of your always feeling in the dumps around this guy has something to do with how passive you are with him much of the time. For instance, you didn't put asking for distance for YOU on the table FROM you. You said nothing, figuring it'd just happen from his end without you asking for it.
What that does, yet again, is kind of put all the power and direction in his court.
here's the thing: putting what YOU need out there, from you, even if the same result happens gives you a stake in it. It becomes something you also made happen and chose, rather than something only he made happen or chose.
Even with the conversation about him understanding how you feel, it sounds to me like he made it about him and you let him, rather than saying, "Great, now you get it. But this is about me, and I need to talk about my feelings, so what I'd really like is for you to just listen to me, hear me, and try and grok where I'm at even when it's not relevant to your personal experience."
Same goes with the crowd he's hanging out with now. If he knows that's not your scene, he can still choose to make time for you, or have some of those folks do what YOU like to do. And you can ask for that if he doesn't put that right out there (something I'd say most of us with a diverse group of friends often will).
Do you see what I mean by this? I mean, I totally get why this feels so awful, and there are some ways it does you can't control, even though you can cope with them. But I do think some of why they feel SO awful is about you seeming to always give this guy the driver's seat.
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63428 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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I guess I didn't think about it like that. I never really fought with him before, so I never was fully aggressive, but I have been...passive-aggressive, come to think of it, once in awhile. I guess that's not such a good thing then. The thing with talking about myself is that it makes me feel like I'm centering myself for attention, even though I know I have to take care of myself.
But now that I get this, and want to talk to him about it, how can I? He's away for three weeks, plus we already talked a lot, and part of me thinks that me might not want to hear the same things being discussed again, although I think I'll need to make him listen. (another part of me knows that if I really need to talk, he'll listen)
Posts: 187 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2011
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I'm not suggesting you fight with him, just that you speak up for yourself and don't let what he wants, chooses, talks about and says lead everything.
That's not about making yourself the center of attention, it's about having you be in the picture AT ALL. In other words, if you never do things like that, it's kind of like you're not even there. Do you know what I mean? And no one who wants any kind of relationship with someone for real, be it a friendship, romance, whatever, that's really about both people wants the other person to really never be there, to never lead on their own, speak up for themselves, take the driver's seat.
If and when someone does seem like that's what they want, you have to know that what they're looking for is a doormat, basically. I'm not sure what you mean about him hearing the same things that were discussed again, because it sounds to me like YOU didn't discuss them at all, right? I got the impression from your post about the other day that he did all the talking, and it was mostly all about him.
However, if the issue is that you don't feel like you'll even have the opportunity to talk for real for another three weeks because he's gone, maybe these three weeks are also the right time for you to choose to take your own space and dump some of the real estate he's taking up in your head, heart and life?
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63428 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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I can wipe him out repeatedly day to day, even a week or two, and I'll feel okay about him. But the trouble is when I see him again, it comes back. And I know that with this problem, the most healthy thing to do is to probably just cut him off, if every time I see him still results in me backtracking with my feelings for him. But I'm not willing yet to get rid of him.
(Part of me thinks that maybe I should cut him off, but these thoughts aren't very well thought out, because they also include me kissing him before I cut him off.)
But I guess next time we get to be in person with each other, I'm going to have to lead the conversation. It's just hard for me because I get choked up; the words are right there, but it feels like they're lodged in my throat.
Posts: 187 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2011
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Have you ever tried writing what you want to say out in a letter instead? Heck, given the timing with his being away, this might be just the right opportunity to try that instead.
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63428 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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I could do that. I'm better at writing my thoughts then saying them out loud. The thing with that is, I feel like I'd need to be in person with him, sit while he reads the letter, and actually make him respond. I was making fun of him with John by telling John to prepare if he hasn't already for conversations with Ricky. Saturday, John showed Ricky a text he got, and Ricky looked at it, but didn't respond, and John was like '....ummm..well?" it was a little funny, and it made me laugh, because I was so used to it. I started warning John that he could very well tell Ricky something that's important, and when he's done talking, Ricky will say something totally irrelevant that was floating in his own mind. What's crazy is that Ricky does listen, he just doesn't always respond...at least, not right away. I've said things to him, he doesn't respond much, but then a week later he brings it up, and I'm always surprised. Ricky openly admits this about himself, so at least he's aware of it... So if I gave him the letter, he would read it, but not say anything to be about it. And if it was online, he wouldn't say much either, because he is bad at talking about serious things in letters/messages. So we'd need to compromise; we'd get together, I'd give him the written letter from me, have him read it, and then let him reply in person, which he is better at than online....is this a silly idea?
Posts: 187 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2011
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You know, you can't make someone respond. In fact, I'd say that's actually pretty uncool.
All you can do, all any of us can do, is out what we feel and think out there, and then the other person or people get to choose to respond or not.
So, if he chooses not to respond, or in a timely manner, that's what he chooses. And he's allowed to make that choice, and you need to be able to accept that if he does, rather than trying to control his response (or lack thereof).
Am I missing something? In other words, am I not getting why you feel you must only communicate in ways (even though this doesn't seem to be working so far) in which you feel he MUST respond?
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63428 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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I feel like he should respond because he already knows that I like him, and since I don't make it annoyingly obvious when we're hanging out, he never seems to worry about it. He understands, so he tells me, but it seems like that doesn't make a difference. And I know I know, all this makes him seem like a bad guy, so I guess I should tell him that's how I feel sometimes too. It's just...I'd like his response, I want it.
Posts: 187 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2011
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But do you want it even if you have to basically force it? Is it meaningful if the only way you can get it is by giving him no choice but to respond?
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63428 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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Well, I suppose not. But I think I'm going to tell him anyway, most probably though writing because that how I can get my point best across. Whether he decides to respond or not is his own choice, but should I not bother trying at all?
Posts: 187 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2011
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