Genderfeels are leaving me confused!

Questions and discussions about gender, gender roles and identity.
JB
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Genderfeels are leaving me confused!

Unread post by JB »

Good morning (at least, where I am!) I've been having a lot of feelings about my gender lately...it feels like these thoughts come in waves, like one week I'm fine being a cis woman and the next I'm like butareyouerallysure???? And this week has been the latter set of feelings. I don't feel like I'm a man, but sometimes I don't always feel like a woman? Like, sometimes when I'm around other women I just feel very foreign, like I'm looking at someone who is similar to me but not quite the same? (I mean, of course, I know nobody is the SAME as me, I just mean with respect to womanhood/gender.) But I still ID with the experiences of womanhood - experiencing cat calling and other forms of sexism, for example. And sometimes I feel more like a woman than other times. Like, when I am around my boyfriend, I feel very feminine, or even when I'm around other men, I feel more feminine, more like a woman...but I don't know if that's just a role I assume, like, "oh, a man is here, so I must play/be 'the opposite.'" And sometimes I love wearing flowery dresses and skirts and lots of makeup. And sometimes I wanna bind and dress more tomboy/boyish...but maybe still wear makeup? And sometimes I wanna dress totally androgynous and be totally ambiguous in gender.

But I'm just wondering if all of this is just me trying to look less "visibly straight." I used to half long hair, which I cute about six or seven months ago...I'm thinking of getting a sideshave soon, which is exciting, and I feel like the quintessential "queercut", so to speak! I'm also wondering if I'm just trying to look less appealing to (straight, cis) men. I have lots of male friends and find that I make friends with men easier sometimes, especially since I meet more of them, and it can be nervewracking when asked to hang out, like oh, am I gonna have to have The Talk with you, that no, I don't wanna date, I want to be platonic, I am seeing someone, etc.

Lately I've been practicing saying different pronouns in the mirror. When I hear someone refer to me as "she" it sorta throws me sometimes, it feels foreign and distant, like I have to reach out and grab the word rather than the word just sorta coming to me, if that makes sense? "They" feels comfortable, but I don't know, all this questioning is exhausting.

I can have a hard time trusting myself. I think I've been gaslighted in the past, and I think I even gaslight myself sometimes! It took me a long time to reconcile that I wasn't straight, that I was bi/queer, and even now I constantly struggle with "am I sure I'm queer? am I queer ENOUGH?" and that can be very disheartening! I'm also worried that if I change up my look/presentation, my partner won't find me as attractive...which is his prerogative, but sad to think about. I feel disingenuous saying "I'm a woman" but I also feel disingenuous saying "I'm non-binary!" because I get an immediate follow-up thought that says "shush shush no you're not you're just doing this for attention."

I don't know, I don't know where to go from here, and I feel like I'm trying to run against a tide. I would appreciate any insight or perspective on this. Thank you always for listening and taking the time to answer, I always appreciate it tremendously!
Sam W
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Re: Genderfeels are leaving me confused!

Unread post by Sam W »

Hi JB,

I'm hoping some folks who are less cis than I am can chime in here as well, but I did have some thoughts. One is a digital high-five for, as you started feeling that "woman" may not entirely describe your gender ID, exploring things like presentation and pronouns to see what fit and made you comfortable. That can be a really hard thing to do.

It sounds like you're pretty savvy, but if you haven't already been reading resources and personal stories by and for non-binary folks, that is something I encourage you to do, if for no other reason than you might find people whose experiences and feelings are close to your own and how they identify.

Do you have close friends who you'd feel comfortable asking to use "They" to refer to you and seeing how that feels (since it already seems to be working better for you than she)?
Heather
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Re: Genderfeels are leaving me confused!

Unread post by Heather »

Good morning to you! :)

You know, reading this, I hear what sounds to me like you being in a time of questioning and experiencing a lot of fluctuating feelings about aspects of your identity. That's the obvious bit. :P

Perhaps less obviously, I also hear what seems like you just not letting yourself have this time, accepting it as a time of questioning and exploration, and instead, being pretty judge about that, and feeling, maybe, like it isn't okay to be in times like this (it is), and like you have to push against it instead of just going with it. Why not just go with it, and kind of float, rather than trying to swim against the current?

You get to identify yourself however you want, based on whatever feels true to you, including in the moment. No one has to only identify their orientation, gender, or other parts of themselves when those parts of their identities have long, consistent histories, or when they feel they know for sure how that part of who they are is, and they feel will stay the same for a long time. :)

How do you feel about just trying to let this be in all its fluctuation, just going with it, and trying to trust yourself more in all of this being just fine, and working on accepting that your feelings and thoughts, whatever they are, are both okay and authentic, even if they change up often for you?
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead
JB
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Re: Genderfeels are leaving me confused!

Unread post by JB »

Wow...that feels like, well, such a foreign concept!! I CAN be judgey of myself, in ways I would never put on other people...but I have a hard time noticing it without other folks helping point it out! I think I can try to accept a period of questioning...of fluidity, even! And just express myself in ways that feel natural. I think it'll be hard but I think it's also worth a try!

I guess I feel like, if my identity isn't static, was I a faker all along? Was I trespassing in spaces that weren't meant for me? Was I not being respectful, truthful, honest? I'm worried about letting myself try new things and play with my identity for fear of stepping on the toes of others, or being rejected from spaces, if that makes sense?

Thank you so much for your insight and kind words and your perspective, it really truly helps tremendously!
Sam W
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Re: Genderfeels are leaving me confused!

Unread post by Sam W »

I think a way of framing those worries is that you weren't faking, you were doing your best with the information that you had at the time. Woman felt right, and it was the what you were being told that your body and lived experiences equated to (and non-binary identities are not super well-known, so you may not have even known that was an option). But now you're getting information from yourself that says "hmm, nope, maybe this thing isn't right and this other thing works better." That doesn't mean you're putting people on, it means you're getting new information and seeing where it takes you :)
Heather
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Re: Genderfeels are leaving me confused!

Unread post by Heather »

I think it's really important to remember that life, and people, do not tend to be static unless there is no growth or experience.

Even in a lifetime, for example, a cisgender, heterosexual woman may use those words as shorthand to identify herself, but if you ask her more about those identities, especially over a lifetime, she will have more to say, and is unlikely to say the same things about them, or feel the same ways, at 15, 25, 40, 60 and 80. And that wouldn't make her a faker: it'd just make her alive. :)

If any group or space doesn't make room for that, the problem is with the group or space, not with the person who is living, growing and ever-changing, to at least some degree.
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead
Heather
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Re: Genderfeels are leaving me confused!

Unread post by Heather »

Btw, JB, this came out a little while ago, and while there are some generational pieces that didn't fit me (I'm middle-aged, so coming up, much of the frameworks and language in this just didn't exist), I felt like it very much spoke to my own lifelong experience with gender, which sounds quite a lot like yours so far.

So, you might find some connection in it, too: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hmKix-75dsg

I also suppose my experience goes to show that even fluidity can be static or constant! :)
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead
JB
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Re: Genderfeels are leaving me confused!

Unread post by JB »

Ah, that video was so great! I really identify with the idea of the little stick figure who is just having pronouns or genders sorta "tossed" at them and is like "ok." Because that's how I feel! Not because I'm apathetic but mostly because I can't pick one that feels comfortable...which I guess does sort of lead to a throw-your-hands-up, "argh, whatever!" attitude sometimes. I guess I just feel like I inhabit a non-binary and also a woman's space, in my head at least, if that makes sense, but I'm not sure that's compatible?

I think I'm gonna work on allowing myself to experiment...the idea of experimenting with my presentation is really exciting actually, kinda gives me butterflies! Thank you both so much!!
Heather
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Re: Genderfeels are leaving me confused!

Unread post by Heather »

Yaaaaaay! :)
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead
Heather
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Re: Genderfeels are leaving me confused!

Unread post by Heather »

Quick lingo for the experience you are voicing, if you want it: your life experience has involved a lot of being treated as a woman, your identity, however, per your own feelings, has been more variable.
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead
JB
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Re: Genderfeels are leaving me confused!

Unread post by JB »

Oh wow, yeah that does make a lot of sense. Awesome! Thank you so so much!!
Heather
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Re: Genderfeels are leaving me confused!

Unread post by Heather »

So glad to be of help, and so great to hear you already feeling more at peace. :)
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead
JB
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Re: Genderfeels are leaving me confused!

Unread post by JB »

Hi! I hope it's alright to continue this thread...I didn't want to clog up the board and I saw this was still on the front page. I've been having a lot of feelings lately and was hoping to just get some of them out, and get feedback, or insight, or encouragement, or reassurance, or...anything, really.

I'm still trying to figure out gender stuff, and have been a little more okay with questioning and experimenting. But some times feels harder than others. And I feel so tired even typing this but it's been looping in my head for so long.

I went shopping on Saturday with some friends, one of whom is a really cool queer/bi woman, very masculine/masculine of center presenting, and just a really rad person. Intimidatingly rad actually. She seemed so self-assured and so out, so much more "out" than me, and I just got to feeling very self conscious and sad. I feel very incomplete as a person, sort've half-formed. It was really hard not to feel super inadequate around this rad cool person who I wanna be friends with. I felt like I should've related to her more, in some ways, but I didn't, and it was awful, it was such an awful feeling, especially 'cause I have wanted to make other queer friends so badly and then to feel like, ah! where is that connection? I know you can't be friends with everyone, but it was so disheartening.

And I don't feel queer enough. I feel phony and I feel fake and I feel invisible. I feel like, what's the point of being bisexual, if nobody sees you? What's the point of exploring a non-binary identity, because nobody sees me, I'm not real, I'm just a different "brand" of woman as opposed to a totally separate entity. I feel so clumsy. I bought a pair of guy's jeans and I feel comfortable to a certain degree but I also feel so so clumsy and embarrassing. Instead of feeling like a "blend" of genders, I feel a mess, all half-sewn with stitches showing. I'm just some lady wearing men's clothes and wearing them poorly. What does it matter. Why do I bother, if nobody can see me?

And all of this feels like such a burden on my partner. My partner is a cis straight man. I know he likes when I dress more feminine, but he's been really good about encouraging me to look how I want. And he tries to reassure me, reminds me that this stuff isn't easy, that figuring out a new style of dress that makes me feel comfortable takes some getting used it. Which is true, I mean, it took me a long time to figure out my style for more feminine clothes. But I still feel like a burden. I feel like I shouldn't even bother with this struggle or this journey because it doesn't matter, I'm still too curvy, too feminine, not non-binary enough, not queer enough. Binding is uncomfortable, wearing a bra is uncomfortable, all my clothes feel uncomfortable, I feel so so restless in my own body I don't know what to do with myself. I see pictures of dfab non-binary people but they all look so good and put-together and just...visible. Visibly queer. Partnered with other dfab non-binary people or with women. I don't see pictures of people like me, who are a little more feminine, who may be dfab non-binary people but are partnered with cis men. I feel so so inadequate.

I don't want to break up with my partner because we have a really great relationship and being with him makes me happy, even when I know he doesn't fully get the gender stuff I'm going through - our relationship has overwhelmingly positive qualities. I just feel so...grey. And I'm trying to embrace the grey area and make a home in it but it's so so hard sometimes and I just feel so impatient, I want to find a community, a label, something that I can latch onto, that's an anchor.

I'm sorry if none of this makes sense. I'm just trying to get it all out. I feel so tired of struggling. I don't know what to do.
Heather
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Re: Genderfeels are leaving me confused!

Unread post by Heather »

It all makes sense to me.

I'm going to get a little personal with you in the hope it might help to hear from someone a bit similar, and hopefully that won't feel like TMI or a boundary issue. If it does, by all means, feel free to tell me to bring my responses back to a more objective place.

You know, growing up when I did (I'm 45), the options we had with gender -- and I grew up very urban and around a lot of arts community, so even my options were likely way less limited than many others my same age in other places at the time) -- were pretty much that you were a man, you were a woman, or you were androgynous, which, in cultural translation mostly meant that you were still one of the two binaries, you just liked to "play" at the other sometimes.

And growing up, gender pretty much ALWAYS felt artificial to me, like makeup: something people put on but when they washed their face, wasn't there. (That's certainly not most people's experience of gender, but it sure was, and often still is, mine.) Because I was assigned female sex and socialized as a girl or a woman, that's what I figured I was. Because the way my body developed and is -- much like yours, it sounds, basically, I'm hourglass as hell -- again, I figured I had to pick girl of my mostly-only-two options. Where I went from there was to figure that even though a lot of people didn't seem to like it very much, I could figure out what kind of woman or girl I wanted to be, and it didn't have to be the kind that was the most common ideal, or the most prevalent role. So, I looked to women like Annie Lennox, Patti Smith, Siouxsie Sioux, Grace Jones, Annie Leibovitz and others to kind of give me a sense of communion, and courage, when it came to figuring out MY kind of girl that I had to be because, again, you had to pick one.

And I also grew up very clearly bisexual. Didn't have the language for it until my mid-teens, years after I'd already been involved with people of more than one gender, but I'm one of those people who was pretty clearly queer from the get-go.

You can perhaps imagine that with the expanding options and frameworks around and becoming more (though much too freaking slowly) accepted now that there's many a time I get a bit sad and wistful that I didn't have them to work with and use. I'll be real with you and say that while what I feel to be is agender or genderqueer (depends on the day or which of those frames makes more sense to people), and looking back, I almost always have when I can filter out all the static that's about anything but myself and my own feelings, even given what I do and the field I work in, I still often feel like this all came about too late, and when I ask, for instance, for people to use a they pronoun with me, or gently correct people who put a whole lotta femme on me that isn't mine, I don't feel confident in it. I feel, sometimes, like I'm too old to make changes even with something as small as language. I feel like I sometimes just have to go with people's assumptions because to correct them would just be a distraction or more effort than I want to have to make. (I'm also introverted, so putting any kind of big focus on me is never my favorite, with anything).

But of course, most of that is ridiculous. I'm not too late or too old to be whoever it is I am, in any respect, and to explore that however I'd like. So, you aren't, either. It's also not like anyone can't start to explore new frameworks or ways of seeing things just because other ways feel like things we got cemented in or have to stick with: an open, flexible mind and the desire to explore and grow is always a good thing. ALWAYS. And if other people don't see these parts of me clearly, then just like anything else they may not see about me, be that my ethnicity, my boundaries, my being a survivor, or this, I have options: if I want them to, then I can bring that to the table and ask for what I need to feel seen that is within someone's ability. Or not, either because I have bigger fish to fry or something else I want more, or because I just am not in the mood that day.

So, here's my long story short that I have to say to you: YOU need to see you. And really, when we feel seen and acknowledged by ourselves we are actually more than halfway through the battle. Because all the other people in the world "seeing" us won't actually make it so we can see ourselves. I mean, external validation and recognition can do things, but not things we can't do for ourselves. And who you are can't be inadequate, because all you can be is who you are, not any more or any less, really. I assure you, though, I'm not sure what you're looking for in a visual representation of others (or why this is about pictures, since most people aren't posting pictures of themselves when they're not all pulled together in the first place), but there are loads of genderqueer DFAB people, queer people as well, who look or present like you do and aren't partnered with people like them. Maybe you haven't met them yet, but I swear, we exist. But again, if you're not seeing you, really seeing and acknowledging you, you're not going to be able to see the rest of us as easily, either.

You're your anchor, in a nutshell. What do you think you'd need to really claim that and get to that?

I do want to add that I'm not sure what you mean about what the point is of being bisexual if no one sees you. I'm not sure there's really a "point" to any sexual orientation because having a sense of our own patterns of attraction, and a sense of what we want in sexual relationships with others, are really tools for us to use for ourselves, IMO, not about how others see us or having others know what our orientation is somehow (even "seeing" orientation is pretty broken, since it's not something anyone can see, only something we can communicate to others directly, with words, when we want to). So, not sure where you were going with that: feel free to fill me in more if you'd like.

(I was rambly here, and sorry about that. In a big book editing day today, but I just didn't want to leave this sitting, especially because I really do feel you and know how ugh it can be, and figured a ramble was better than no ramble at all. :))
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead
JB
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Re: Genderfeels are leaving me confused!

Unread post by JB »

This was...so awesome to read honestly, thank you Heather, I really can't thank you enough. This feel very reassuring.

I don't know what I need to see me. I wish I could feel more confident, more put together. I wish I could make peace with the grey area I feel like I've been living in for so long. I wish I could find other people like me because even just being around other people like me makes me feel at ease. I wish I didn't feel like I needed to prove myself. I wish I could achieve some kind of peace with all of this, because it just feels so so turbulent right now. But I don't know specifically what I need. What helped you claim your gender identity? Hearing your personal story was really marvelous, because sometimes it feels like all this comes effortlessly to everybody else but I'm just stumbling along, bumping into things.

I'm feeling very concerned with my appearance right now, how I dress and how I look. Wearing certain clothes makes me feel very comfortable and more at ease. But I'm also worried about getting TOO hung up on my appearance. I'm trying to find a middle ground.

(Also Heather, I feel like I totally dropped off the planet in another thread we were in, and I apologize for that!)
Heather
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Re: Genderfeels are leaving me confused!

Unread post by Heather »

No need for apologies: it's up to any of you when you want to keep talking about something and if you do. Y'all don't owe us responses to anything, this is for you, not us. :)

I'm glad it was of value to you.

In case something else personal I've got in my pocket might be of value to you, what do you think about simply trying to embrace not feeling "put together," or what I think of, for myself -- both with this, but also just around things like healing from different kinds of abuse, or figuring out a new approach to something with work -- as owning my messiness?

Now, with gender, that is a particularly good fit for me because from a presentation standpoint, messy is what feels right for me: I kind of think of and tend to externally present myself a bit like a hippie rocker dude from the 70s with boobs. :P I have long hair, but it's not tidy hair even when I try, and I don't try when I can get away with it because I like it a bit, wild tangle. I don't like to dress in a way that doesn't let me move around and feel at ease in my body just from a physical comfort perspective alone. I don't like to wear things or present myself in a way where if something intense and dirty or wild in life presented itself as an opportunity, I couldn't leap, or might twist my ankle if I did. :)

But even if none of that sounds like you, I really still think you might be able to figure out your version of just owning your mess, and being cool with everything being a bit of an open-ended question. While in some ways I'm bummed all the frameworks of now weren't around for just-coming-into-her-own Heather, there's another side of this where I'm also glad they weren't around and so prevalent, because I didn't spend time seeking to try and answer that question, as it were, or pin myself down too tightly, I just was who I was and kind of let those chips fall as they may, with people making whatever they wanted of it, for the most part. (It probably helped me that a lot of my life history involved having to learn to think or say "Piss off" a lot. I got a lot of practice.)

And just FYI, from a very opinionated place, I think the world could use people owning and claiming their mess a lot more often. The kind of hardcore manicuring of people and life that's so pervasive anymore (and there's also a hidden class element in that that's pretty messed up, since all of that takes time and money only some kinds of people have), and people kind of faking it until they make it, rather than just being who they are and putting it out there that yep, we're all works in progress that, until we're dead, are perpetually unfinished, is pretty dehumanizing, IMO. It also is a LOT of pressure to put on ourselves or anyone else. I think it's much more human to be a mess and to have our threads hanging out. :)

I don't think, btw, most of this comes at all easy or is effortless for most people. I think it can look that way, because, again, what people choose to show others, especially people they don't know well, won't tend to be their big struggles. Think about that like people putting on emotional makeup: more people, if they're going out, are going to tend to put some on first than leave the house without, if you follow. And sure, it's easier for some people than others, especially people who -- though this more often will be phasal than lifelong, I'd say, when people actually grow -- feel like a "match" when it comes to sex, gender and the most pervasive gender roles. That said, bear in mind how defensive and reactive and scared some of those people get when faces with people who are gender nonconforming: no one who feels super-comfortable and like this is all totally easy gets bent out of shape like that.

Another thought: maybe when it comes to presentation, try some days where you skip mirrors, and instead just focus on putting things on you like the look or vibe of all by themselves, and then how they simply feel on your body? If you have a concern about getting hung up on looks, making a more regular practice of that might be helpful.

One last thing for today: I think a piece of this (and other things) for me was learning in my life that it's okay for people to be wrong about me, and I don't always -- or even often -- need to try and correct that. You know, when I first started this work online and there was so little like it around, and so few people visibly doing this kind of work, I got so, so attacked, in about every way you can. And when any of that involved people making statements about me that just felt so very counter to who I was, or what I was really doing, or what I valued most about myself, I spent a LOT of time racing around trying to correct that. It was a massive time and energy suck, and I'd say I rarely left anything like that actually feeling better.

So, I've done some learning and growing since and throughout when it comes to this, and spent some real time just teaching myself to be okay with people not seeing all of me -- or heck, any of me -- seeing me for who I know I am, or acknowledging parts of my identity that aren't what they thought. I think a big piece of that process for me was realizing that ultimately, it didn't really matter much: what mattered was that *I* knew me, that *I* saw me, and that the people I cared about most, and wanted to be the biggest parts of my life did, or, if and when they didn't, wanted to put the effort in to know or see me more clearly. I realized that it didn't really cost me anything, or take anything away from me for people not to grok me, or not to see me clearly in these ways but it DID take things away from me for me to put my focus on them and trying to be seen: my energy, time from things I cherish and love in my life, and my own clear vision of myself. Does that make sense?
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead
JB
not a newbie
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:30 am
Age: 32
Awesomeness Quotient: I am bilingual!
Primary language: English
Pronouns: they/them
Sexual identity: queer, bisexual
Location: Virginia

Re: Genderfeels are leaving me confused!

Unread post by JB »

All of that makes a lot of sense. Coming to terms with the messiness and the grey area is hard though and I don't know how to go about it, exactly. Like, it's good to say that messiness should be celebrated, or at the very least accepted. But...how? How do I go about convincing myself that messy is ok, that not knowing is ok, so accept myself and to see and acknowledge myself and to SEE myself? Is it trial and error? I like the idea of bypassing mirrors, that's a good start...it's hard to get out of the conditioned idea that I've gotta look good for others or be palatable in some way, even when I"m feeling baggy jeans and a tshirt.

I worry, sometimes, that past instances of abuse or toxic situations are causing this gendermess. I worry that I'm trying to get out of a body that was used and hurt. I worry that delegitimizes how I feel. Or that I just don't wanna "look straight" and so I"m doing all this to avoid being labeled heterosexual or something. I worry that just makes everything invalid.

And I just...it's hard, sometimes, to be ok with being messy when I feel like my mess gets on my partner. I worry he'll get sick of me struggling with the gender stuff. I worry I'll end up not doing the things I wanna do or dressing the way I wanna dress so that he doesn't get stressed out or something by my presentation.

By all means I know you don't have the magic answers, but talking about this feels good. I just...celebrating questioning and messiness is a great idea, I just don't know how to get there, or what steps I can take. I'm not sure if you can help with that? Or offer any ideas?
Heather
scarleteen founder & director
Posts: 9533
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:43 am
Age: 53
Awesomeness Quotient: I have been a sex educator for over 25 years!
Primary language: english
Pronouns: they/them
Sexual identity: queery-queer-queer
Location: Chicago

Re: Genderfeels are leaving me confused!

Unread post by Heather »

Heading out for the day, so more tomorrow, but for now, maybe I can leave you with something to think about about your partner.

If someone wanted to be with you, wouldn't they want to be...with you? In other words, this is you right now. And it's not like you're struggling with an addiction or something big, bad and destructive: you're just exploring who you are and finding all of that out. And that's what we're supposed to be able to do together with our closest-to-us people, and what they're actually supposed to be in for: it's kind of a huge part of the adventure of being in an ongoing relationship. If no one ever grew and always stayed the same, there'd really be nothing to do except wait around to die together and find a few movies to watch in the meantime, you know?

How about talking with them about this very openly and honestly, including sharing these fears? If this person is somebody awesome, as anyone you're with certainly should be, I'd be pretty surprised if they don't say similar.
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead
Heather
scarleteen founder & director
Posts: 9533
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:43 am
Age: 53
Awesomeness Quotient: I have been a sex educator for over 25 years!
Primary language: english
Pronouns: they/them
Sexual identity: queery-queer-queer
Location: Chicago

Re: Genderfeels are leaving me confused!

Unread post by Heather »

Again, there's no way any given orientation looks. There have been a batch of sound studies published recently that told us what we already knew: people who think they can tell someone's orientation based on "gaydar," or just by looking can't. Those ideas are based in stereotypes. In reality, those of us who are queer look as varied as people who aren't, and vice-versa. So, I'd try and focus ob those facts and see what you can't do to start tossing out ideas like that and putting them on yourself.

You're queer and feel gendernonconforming: so, there's no way you can look or act that aren't both of those things, because they're part of who you are. How much you want to try and express them to others, and how you want to do that, is up to you. But there's no one way to do that, just whatever your way is at any given time. :)

We also know that people's orientation or sense of gender doesn't tend to be a reaction to trauma. So, that's another thing you can know isn't factual and work on tossing into the rubbish bin. And even if and when it was, you know, my deal with anything like this is that I figure trauma has been part of my life and is going to shape who I am to some degree (though personally, I find my healing journey seems to have had much more influence). What it shapes and how much? Who knows. But like anything else in my life history, it's some part of who I am, so that has to be okay, because it simply is. Know what I mean?

I have, myself, very rarely dated strongly heterosexual, strongly cisgender people. Casual sex? Sure. But my longer-term sexual and romantic relationships more often tend to have been, and be still, with people more towards the middle of the gender and orientation spectrum. However -- and again, your mileage may vary, this has just been my experience in my own life -- I have to say that the most conflict I have had around either of those things has been when involved with other queer women, especially since I tend to date butch women, and in my age group, many have been pretty attached to butch/femme frameworks and partnerships, so there have certainly been times I've been read as femme on first glance, and then run into problems pretty quickly because I'm not really femme, so wasn't femme enough for what some women have been looking for. So, I'd not assume (and not just based on my experiences) that just because someone is a cis, hetero dude, he's going to get or accept more "grey" any worse or better than anyone else.

Really, if you ask me, if your twenties can't be a time of a lot of self-exploration, you'd be missing out. For a lot of reasons, I think it's one of the best times of life for this, and really, a lot of what this time in life is for. So, whatever you can do to just dig in with that and enjoy the adventure? I'd strongly advise it. :)
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead
JB
not a newbie
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:30 am
Age: 32
Awesomeness Quotient: I am bilingual!
Primary language: English
Pronouns: they/them
Sexual identity: queer, bisexual
Location: Virginia

Re: Genderfeels are leaving me confused!

Unread post by JB »

I've talked to my partner about it and he's supportive, but I can tell he's got fears of his own. I think he fears people judging me, and judging him as well. I think he fears me drifting away from him during this exploration, which is not what I feel right now but not something I want to say will never happen, because I don't know the direction life will take me! I know he prefers when I dress feminine but ultimately respects it's my decision and supports me in following the path I need to follow. He's made comments along the lines of "if you're talking hormones/surgery then I'd be feeling a little more uncertain" and that's scary to hear because I don't know if that's something I'll want. I appreciate his honesty, but it's scary and makes me feel bad for even having him worry about all this.

I feel more at ease and willing to explore when I can make peace with the fact that I can't stifle who I am to please my partner, and that he wouldn't want me to, ultimately. I just suppose I feel like I can't really be different if I don't make physical changes. And part of it is I WANT to make physical changes! But a little bit is that I've gotta start looking/presenting a certain way in order to make these internal changes real or more valid. I know that's not true but it is hard to shake that feeling.

What's totally the worst is that if someone was talking to me about all this I would have no problem telling them basically what you've told me - own yourself and your messiness, recognize yourself, do you to the best of your ability, trust in yourself, your closest friends, and your partner. But reflecting that back to myself just feels so big and so hard and I'm not quite as good as taking my own advise.

(Off topic a bit Heather but, how did you get involved doing what you do? Sex education? I've got such an interest in it but...don't know where to go with that interest! Apologies if this is not the time or place to ask!!)
Heather
scarleteen founder & director
Posts: 9533
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:43 am
Age: 53
Awesomeness Quotient: I have been a sex educator for over 25 years!
Primary language: english
Pronouns: they/them
Sexual identity: queery-queer-queer
Location: Chicago

Re: Genderfeels are leaving me confused!

Unread post by Heather »

You know, no matter what, in any relationship, people changing and growing is usually a given, which means ANYTHING could potentially result in people drifting apart, or not connecting in the same ways they used to. Sure, that could be about this stuff, but it could also be about a change in career or academic focus, spiritual belief system changes, changing social groups, different hobbies...you name it, it can be why people have grown apart.

And you know, maybe it turns out, in time, that as will be the case with the vast, vast majority of relationships in anyone's life (and technically everyone's, since none of us lives forever) that you two don't stay a good fit as partners, for these reasons or others. But what I'd say to that is that we can't really be in intimate relationships in a real way if WE aren't in them: in other words, if we can't be ourselves, whoever that turns out to be at any given time in our lives, we can't really be with people in a close way. So, while I get your concerns, I'd suggest you figure that's always a concern in any relationship at all, for any reason, and relationships we can't be ourselves in have very limited value, so the answer here is probably to work on accepting more of the impermanent nature of relationships, rather than thinking about not being able to be who you are, or who you are being a problem or something you need to try and limit or lock down to keep someone around, or keep a relationship exactly how it is.

IMO and IME, learning to be flexible in relationships and adapt them over time to make room for any of our change and growth, rather than either trying to stay the same so they do, or just totally ditch otherwise good relationships because one way of being in them anymore doesn't work is the way to the deepest, most meaningful relationships of our lives. So, there's real value in doing that no matter what, if you ask me. Some of the most important relationships I have in my life are with friends who used to be lovers, or sexual and romantic partners who once were platonic friends, etc.

And I hear you: it's easier to give good advice than take it, pretty much as a rule. :)

Long story very short on me and work: I was very early to the sex and sexuality part of life, so was the person that even in junior high and high school, friends were asking about this stuff. I went to an arts high school, and started teaching right out of high school, mostly thinking it was just a good way to pay my college bills and living expenses while in school, but it stuck. I started teaching in early childhood alternative education, did Montessori training in my 20s, and while working in the creative arts area of sex and sexuality, started doing sexual health and ed sex writing when the 'net was just getting its feet wet. In about three seconds, young people started emailing me (having found me in the adult sector of all this) questions, and voila: Scarleteen was born. It ate up the rest of my life and time within a couple years, so I shifted to making this my full time work and expanding what I do beyond here, and haven't looked back since! Well, I have, but this continues to feel like the right place for me when I do.)
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead
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